Ideas to Improve Team Passing & Team Play

[GreenlyGreeny]

What concerns me most is, it doesn't matter who we get as a PG if both our sticky fingered young "stars" don't allow him to direct the team, this by ignoring him and his skill set. That's why IMO a young PG may not do the trick. The J's have an established pecking order going. 

This team needs a coach that enforces a game plan and holds players accountable, not a new Pal.

It was nice to see Jaylen get a triple double, his first in nearly 400 games.

We must be careful to speak these opinions, comrade 🤣

But between the two of us, we all know what we’ve seen on the court the past 100+ games. That said, going to be positive and optimistic that JT/JB are seeing the light that is the type of team play that has the Warriors, Suns and Jazz (and increasingly the Bulls) on top of the league. We get a real PG soon, really think we could become title contenders like them again.

[Csfan1984]

Your assumptions about these people's personalities, drives and attitudes border on the sociopathic.

 Completely uncalled for.  Sociopathic?

I'm not gonna start all of this over from scratch. Read the rest.

Anybody objective reading the rest is simply left wondering, “who watches the watchmen?”

Everyone reading knows that talking about a public figure/athlete like JB and speculating/criticizing him when we lose is totally fair game on an objective and respected sports forum such as this one, especially after 100+ games of mediocrity.  Calling a fellow fan “borderline sociopathic” because you happen to disagree with that fan’s speculation/criticism of a player, and that fan’s belief that we need to see something change to undo 100+ games of .500 (especially after said fan positively expresses that perhaps JB is changing things up and it’s what we need to now get back to winning)? Well, in this circumstance, what does one say other than who watches the watchmen?

GreenlyGreeny, he made that statement because you have a habit to narrate a guys personal motives and mental approach in a negative way based on watching a game despite what coaches and players themselves say. You state your own opinion as fact and above what direct people are saying in regards to something no one but the player can truly know. You even dismiss stats like projected ast or game details like off ball movement to believe you can understand what Brown thinks and wants. That is sociopathic narcissist behavior. If you kept the "reading player's minds" out of your post and just make comments on their play that's k but you bring up that narrative so much it's sending signals of a personality disorder.


Ps edit: The fact that I can make such diagnosis and claims without any formal training or licenses may also mean I too have narcissistic tendencies. Welcome to a watchman looking in a mirrror, 

My opinions and speculations on a sports forum are clearly opinions, speculation and conjecture. I consistently use the qualifier IF to acknowledge this, and I rarely use the word I out of personal preference, not to give the impression something is being stated as fact.

If someone interprets the opinions of an author are being stated as fact, that’s never the intent of this author. If someone does not like the opinions of another poster, they’re welcome to not read them. But nobody should feel free to state someone is “borderline sociopathic” for any reason, including if they’re a watchman who thinks they’re above the rules and they do not like the opinions, speculation and conjecture that differs from their own, so they wish to seemingly abuse their position of authority in an attempt to bait someone whose opinion they disagree with into saying something that can be misconstrued, particularly in the heat of the moment.  Such behavior is clearly not compatible with the spirit of free speech and fairness, at least as we know it in America, the home of our beloved Boston Celtics.

When you come from the bad angle we expressed over and over people are going to get tired of it and call it out. Like I said to consider yourself a mind reader was the problem. Just don't do that and people won't call you out for it. I can highlight the mind reading if you want but it's better you look yourself. You say we misread or misinterpreted but you admit to not stating things the best way and preferring not to use "I". You should know that is a you problem not a we problem. Best course is don't mind read to build a topic. Put an "I" on it, "I don't feel", "I don't believe/think", "If he can't do x we should". Take responsibility for your angle and don't make up a narrative based on mind reading.

[Rosco917]

What concerns me most is, it doesn't matter who we get as a PG if both our sticky fingered young "stars" don't allow him to direct the team, this by ignoring him and his skill set. That's why IMO a young PG may not do the trick. The J's have an established pecking order going. 

This team needs a coach that enforces a game plan and holds players accountable, not a new Pal.

It was nice to see Jaylen get a triple double, his first in nearly 400 games.

We must be careful to speak these opinions, comrade 🤣

But between the two of us, we all know what we’ve seen on the court the past 100+ games. That said, going to be positive and optimistic that JT/JB are seeing the light that is the type of team play that has the Warriors, Suns and Jazz (and increasingly the Bulls) on top of the league. We get a real PG soon, really think we could become title contenders like them again.

What we've viewed... "Comrade" on the court are glimpses of the possibility that the two are seeing the light. And the blind chipmunk does sometimes find the acorn. IMO, players that need to be continually remind to play "team ball" leaves me uninspired. Fore that is exactly the reason why when crunch time comes in the last minutes of a close game, they consistently revert to ISO ball causing the team to hover around .500.

My point being, a youngish PG may not be the ticket for this particular team of long time ISO-maniacs. That's my opinion... this along with having a coach that lacks weight enough to inspire the needed style of play. 

[Redz]

What concerns me most is, it doesn't matter who we get as a PG if both our sticky fingered young "stars" don't allow him to direct the team, this by ignoring him and his skill set. That's why IMO a young PG may not do the trick. The J's have an established pecking order going. 

This team needs a coach that enforces a game plan and holds players accountable, not a new Pal.

It was nice to see Jaylen get a triple double, his first in nearly 400 games.

We must be careful to speak these opinions, comrade 🤣

But between the two of us, we all know what we’ve seen on the court the past 100+ games. That said, going to be positive and optimistic that JT/JB are seeing the light that is the type of team play that has the Warriors, Suns and Jazz (and increasingly the Bulls) on top of the league. We get a real PG soon, really think we could become title contenders like them again.

What we've viewed... "Comrade" on the court are glimpses of the possibility that the two are seeing the light. And the blind chipmunk does sometimes find the acorn. IMO, players that need to be continually remind to play "team ball" leaves me uninspired. Fore that is exactly the reason why when crunch time comes in the last minutes of a close game, they consistently revert to ISO ball causing the team to hover around .500.

My point being, a youngish PG may not be the ticket for this particular team of long time ISO-maniacs. That's my opinion... this along with having a coach that lacks weight enough to inspire the needed style of play.

Rondo looked good for the Cavs the other night against the Warriors.  He's obviously got his flaws and is getting a little long in the tooth, but he might have been a decent addition and was available for a song.  He can still facilitate.  Point is moot.  There just aren't a whole lot of viable PGs out there.

[Rosco917]

What concerns me most is, it doesn't matter who we get as a PG if both our sticky fingered young "stars" don't allow him to direct the team, this by ignoring him and his skill set. That's why IMO a young PG may not do the trick. The J's have an established pecking order going. 

This team needs a coach that enforces a game plan and holds players accountable, not a new Pal.

It was nice to see Jaylen get a triple double, his first in nearly 400 games.

We must be careful to speak these opinions, comrade 🤣

But between the two of us, we all know what we’ve seen on the court the past 100+ games. That said, going to be positive and optimistic that JT/JB are seeing the light that is the type of team play that has the Warriors, Suns and Jazz (and increasingly the Bulls) on top of the league. We get a real PG soon, really think we could become title contenders like them again.

What we've viewed... "Comrade" on the court are glimpses of the possibility that the two are seeing the light. And the blind chipmunk does sometimes find the acorn. IMO, players that need to be continually remind to play "team ball" leaves me uninspired. Fore that is exactly the reason why when crunch time comes in the last minutes of a close game, they consistently revert to ISO ball causing the team to hover around .500.

My point being, a youngish PG may not be the ticket for this particular team of long time ISO-maniacs. That's my opinion... this along with having a coach that lacks weight enough to inspire the needed style of play.

Rondo looked good for the Cavs the other night against the Warriors.  He's obviously got his flaws and is getting a little long in the tooth, but he might have been a decent addition and was available for a song.  He can still facilitate.  Point is moot.  There just aren't a whole lot of viable PGs out there.

Unfortunately true...but IMO that's what this team needs and not a young PG that may get ignored. A veteran with league respect with voice that cuts through the me, me, me Celtics play would be nice.

[wdleehi]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?   

[Rosco917]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

[todd_days_41]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

Tells you just how bad Aaron Nosmith is. Team desperate for shooting, and the guy is glued to the bench.

[liam]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

Tells you just how bad Aaron Nosmith is. Team desperate for shooting, and the guy is glued to the bench.

Erik Spoelstra plays his shooters and keeps on them to put up shots. He's developed those guys down in Miami while being competitive. Nesmith might need more that 4 minutes here and there to develope.

[A Future of Stevens]

Earlier in this thread people were throwing around D Murray. I have been a fan of his since college, and thought he has untapped potential. I don't think I have consciously been aware of him this year. Wow. 6'4 25 year old lead guard averaging 18.4/8.2reb/8.9ast and 2 steals is impressive. Granted his shooting splits of 44/33/72 leave something to be desired. But dang.

The ship has sailed on that player being available.

[todd_days_41]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

Tells you just how bad Aaron Nosmith is. Team desperate for shooting, and the guy is glued to the bench.

Erik Spoelstra plays his shooters and keeps on them to put up shots. He's developed those guys down in Miami while being competitive. Nesmith might need more that 4 minutes here and there to develope.

Stevens and Udoka watch Nosmith in practice every day..... you don't think if they thought he could actually play, considering the Cs weak bench, they would?

[blink]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

Tells you just how bad Aaron Nosmith is. Team desperate for shooting, and the guy is glued to the bench.

Erik Spoelstra plays his shooters and keeps on them to put up shots. He's developed those guys down in Miami while being competitive. Nesmith might need more that 4 minutes here and there to develope.

Stevens and Udoka watch Nosmith in practice every day..... you don't think if they thought he could actually play, considering the Cs weak bench, they would?

Well it isn't always about if he 'could actually play'.  I mean we all saw last season that Nesmith can shoot the ball, and at times he was a hustling if not completely competent defender.  It feels like Nesmith did something to get into Ime's dog house and hasn't been able to get out of there. 

I don't understand our approach with Nesmith and Langford.  Both have shown enough to get at least some minutes.   But there have been quite a few games that neither one get utilized at all.  For example last night Langford didn't get any minutes despite Smart only playing 23 minutes and J Rich playing 38 minutes.  I don't get that.  At the least Langford can give Brown or J Rich a 5 min blow somewhere in the game to keep those guys legs fresh.  It seems like Ime goes in and out of having any trust for Nesmith and Langford.  As a player that is the worst, not having a role, even if it is a 5-6 min a night role.

Young players need minutes to get better, sometimes you have to accept some less than stellar play along the way. 

[todd_days_41]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

Tells you just how bad Aaron Nosmith is. Team desperate for shooting, and the guy is glued to the bench.

Erik Spoelstra plays his shooters and keeps on them to put up shots. He's developed those guys down in Miami while being competitive. Nesmith might need more that 4 minutes here and there to develope.

Stevens and Udoka watch Nosmith in practice every day..... you don't think if they thought he could actually play, considering the Cs weak bench, they would?

Well it isn't always about if he 'could actually play'.  I mean we all saw last season that Nesmith can shoot the ball, and at times he was a hustling if not completely competent defender.  It feels like Nesmith did something to get into Ime's dog house and hasn't been able to get out of there. 

I don't understand our approach with Nesmith and Langford.  Both have shown enough to get at least some minutes.   But there have been quite a few games that neither one get utilized at all.  For example last night Langford didn't get any minutes despite Smart only playing 23 minutes and J Rich playing 38 minutes.  I don't get that.  At the least Langford can give Brown or J Rich a 5 min blow somewhere in the game to keep those guys legs fresh.  It seems like Ime goes in and out of having any trust for Nesmith and Langford.  As a player that is the worst, not having a role, even if it is a 5-6 min a night role.

Young players need minutes to get better, sometimes you have to accept some less than stellar play along the way.

Maybe the mystery really isn't a mystery. Perhaps the Cs feel that giving those two minutes simply reduces their chance of winning.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Your assumptions about these people's personalities, drives and attitudes border on the sociopathic.

How is this appropriate but using the word [dang] is censored?

Believe I’ve only commented on JB’s dominant personality, not others. Firmly believe he clearly wants to be the top scorer on the team, he wants to be seen as the alpha over Tatum and does not really fit alongside JT when he plays that guy. What he should want to be is that guy who killed it with a triple-double. That’s sooo much more important to us than 24 PPG and 1-2 APG. The dude played like a Pippen, that elite number two guy we need. I’ve complimented JB for his commitment to social justice. In no way, shape or form have I ever implied that JB is a sociopath. He’s a decent fella who will hopefully keep up the team ball, so we can keep on winning. The way he played alongside JT in that game is EXACTLY what we need to be back in the ECF. Not this absurd iso-ball thing we’ve seen lately.

Obviously we could not provide some sort of financial incentive for this team play separate and apart from the contract, but they should find some way to incentivize this kind of play. Mind you, silly, fun examples were given without much thought, mostly on a lark. But lighten up, Francis. And don’t kid yourself if you think trying to be the top scorer is not about $$$. These are kids in their early/mid 20s. Suggesting people respond to incentives does not make one sociopathic, nor does one border on being sociopathic for wanting to be the top scorer with the accolades who wants to maximize their exposure so they can maximize their future potential earnings. Unfortunately, some folks are all about business and others want our guys to play such that they’re striving for titles, not max contracts, but whatevs.

So here's the thing.

You can't take a random person and then say "they're selfish" (that's what you said, in not so many words) and after that, be angry when people call you out for being [whatever random trait they think you have].

In short; you're dishing it out but unable to take it.

If you're judging others, be ready to get judged in return?

I’m constantly criticizing a player and his style of play the last 100+ games (and our corresponding record), not the person separate and apart from the athlete. And certainly not judging any posters on here, let alone implying someone on here is sociopathic for drawing inferences about players based on their play and on-and-off-court behavior around other players.

In any case, I’ve given that player a lot of recent credit for being exactly what we need him to be to position us for a title. I want our team to win a title. I’m not going after fellow posters or projecting my own fears about myself onto others?

This:

leads me to believe JB just goes out there and does whatever he wants to do (he is kind of a cool bad boy like that)

Is 100% speculation, assumption, and based on nothing.

If I punch someone in the face, you'd call me a horrible aggressive person. Meanwhile, that person might've murdered my dad 2 minutes before.

See what I mean?

You're assuming. You're saying this guy's doing whatever he wants.

Maybe, just maybe, he's a young kid that's been told to attack whenever he can.

Maybe he's trying his best to create but guys aren't knocking down shots.

Maybe people aren't driving in around him when he goes in so he has nobody to dump it off to.

Maybe 100 other reasons.

But, you went with calling him selfish.

That's the part that's assuming. That's the part that's automatically going for assuming malice over anything else.

That's what I'm calling you out for.

How do you explain going up against a team, scoring 40+ points and no assists, and within a couple days going up against the same team and getting a triple-double? That’s not normal. If nothing else, the dude is unique and fascinating. Personally like to think he’s a bad dude (intended as a compliment of the athlete, not a personal criticism of the person) who’s coming around to being the guy we need.

Personally, if he’s really doing whatever he wants and can do the triple-double thing lots moving forward, he’ll quickly become my favorite and you can sign me up for Secretary of the JKJB Club.

The same way we've been explaining that OVER and OVER and OVER again over the last few weeks.

He had 8 potential assists but people kept missing shots. And that number was this season's record.

So yeah.

You wrong. He was trying. People were missing.

OR, you can pick any of the other things I wrote down.

OR you can call him a selfish player.

You go with that last one.

I say all of them are possible.

I appreciate your posts and I apologize if I said or did anything that you construed to be a personal attack hence this odd turn of events. That’s never my intent. I cannot imagine implying to someone on here that they’re displaying sociopathic behavior based on commentary they’ve provided about players. If I said or did something wrong, other than show passion for my favorite team, I apologize and will do my best to do better next time. Sorry, mate.

Can you two exchange cell phones. It is Like Kindergarden my daddy is bigger than your daddy.  Greenly get a life, Hopefully away from this forum.

[BruceBanner18]

How much would passing improve if the team had a shooter or two that the other teams respect to the level of not cheating off them?   How much more open would the inside and passing lanes be?

Great point, I would hope since we play the game with a single basketball, this said basketball would find the open "shooter." Unfortunately on this current Celtic team this may not be a guarantee. But no doubt, this team needs more shooting in general, perhaps not of the "Star" caliber.

Tells you just how bad Aaron Nosmith is. Team desperate for shooting, and the guy is glued to the bench.

Erik Spoelstra plays his shooters and keeps on them to put up shots. He's developed those guys down in Miami while being competitive. Nesmith might need more that 4 minutes here and there to develope.

Stevens and Udoka watch Nosmith in practice every day..... you don't think if they thought he could actually play, considering the Cs weak bench, they would?

Well it isn't always about if he 'could actually play'.  I mean we all saw last season that Nesmith can shoot the ball, and at times he was a hustling if not completely competent defender.  It feels like Nesmith did something to get into Ime's dog house and hasn't been able to get out of there. 

I don't understand our approach with Nesmith and Langford.  Both have shown enough to get at least some minutes.   But there have been quite a few games that neither one get utilized at all.  For example last night Langford didn't get any minutes despite Smart only playing 23 minutes and J Rich playing 38 minutes.  I don't get that.  At the least Langford can give Brown or J Rich a 5 min blow somewhere in the game to keep those guys legs fresh.  It seems like Ime goes in and out of having any trust for Nesmith and Langford.  As a player that is the worst, not having a role, even if it is a 5-6 min a night role.

Young players need minutes to get better, sometimes you have to accept some less than stellar play along the way.

Maybe the mystery really isn't a mystery. Perhaps the Cs feel that giving those two minutes simply reduces their chance of winning.

Chances of winning when is the question though...are we focused on winning games this week or be the best team come playoff time so we can win then...or next year?

My biggest concern is we have a roster that doesn't have the talent to win today but our rookie Coach is feeling pressure to win now. It's a terrible situation and we're watching play out in front of us... playing guys too many minutes, calling out young players to the media, our two young stars being pitted against each other, feeling like they are failing instead of growing etc.

At some point we need to reset expectations, lower the pressure on everyone and let Ime try to implement an offensive system, which hopefully looks more like SA and GS's ball and player movement then the iso shoot a 3 crap in place today.