Minor Change on Fultz Trade Announced

[CelticGuardian]

phew! dodged a bullet there huh, almost thought we were gonna actually take or trade for something that can make up 50 points worth of ground during a ECF playoff game...  lets go further back with this thing Ainge, let's work until we have all 60 picks in a draft and then we can have the safest draft of all time. No pressure at all to come up with this elusive **** transcendent player...

I can already hear it now after this draft is over and well done with: ¨you really expect Ainge to draft transcendent player at #3?, I´ll have you know Josh Jackson was a decent pick and still generally considered a useful player¨

[hpantazo]

phew! dodged a bullet there huh, almost thought we were gonna actually take or trade for something that can make up 50 points worth of ground during a ECF playoff game...  lets go further back with this thing Ainge, let's work until we have all 60 picks in a draft and then we can have the safest draft of all time. No pressure at all to come up with this elusive **** transcendent player...

I can already hear it now after this draft is over and well done with: ¨you really expect Ainge to draft transcendent player at #3?, I´ll have you know Josh Jackson was a decent pick and still generally considered a useful player¨

You're right , how could we possibly think that?

I mean, Michael Jordan was drafted at #3, Kevin McHale at #3, Larry Bird was drafted at #6, Stephen Curry at #7, Paul Pierce at #10.

How could we possibly draft a great player at #3?

[CelticGuardian]

phew! dodged a bullet there huh, almost thought we were gonna actually take or trade for something that can make up 50 points worth of ground during a ECF playoff game...  lets go further back with this thing Ainge, let's work until we have all 60 picks in a draft and then we can have the safest draft of all time. No pressure at all to come up with this elusive **** transcendent player...

I can already hear it now after this draft is over and well done with: ¨you really expect Ainge to draft transcendent player at #3?, I´ll have you know Josh Jackson was a decent pick and still generally considered a useful player¨

You're right , how could we possibly think that?

I mean, Michael Jordan was drafted at #3, Kevin McHale at #3, Larry Bird was drafted at #6, Stephen Curry at #7, Paul Pierce at #10.

How could we possibly draft a great player at #3?

Nice names... where are they exactly on this DraftExpress list? I dont see them ¨can make up 50 points worth of ground during a ECF playoff game¨ listed as the ceiling for Jayson Tatum?

Something else nice about that list of yours... Ainge didnt draft any of those players.

[Bobshot]

Fans are actually celebrating that the trade got worse?

What are the chances lakers or sac win the #1 pick? But both lakers and sac win the #1 consecutive years

You are getting mad about something that doesnt have a high chance of happening??....

Im so sick of arguing with people who have strong opinions but that can't or don't interpret basic information.

The Lakers pick doesn't have to be #1 for it not to convey.

what are you talking about?

you don't think I know this?

You are getting upset because there is a protection on the Kings pick (#1)...

What are the chances it will be the #1 pick? if the chances are low...what are you getting all worked up about?

Overall its a good return with a low chance one of the picks sukking... Several things must go wrong for the Celts to get a bad pick

Just because you are upset the Celts are not going to draft Fultz..  don't make this look like a bad deal

You said:

But both lakers and sac win the #1 consecutive years

The Lakers pick doesn't need to be #1 for the SAC pick to convey. If you knew how the deal worked you wouldn't make that argument.

I was trying to prove a point

Roy you are not happy the Celtics are not going to draft Fultz....

I didn't see you jumping with joy even if the understanding was that the 2019 pick was going to be fully unprotected

Now that there is a protection 2019 #1... you are making this deal sound worst than it is.... 

It is feeding to your overall displeasure that the Celts are not going to draft Fultz

you can correct me if I'm wrong

You made a false claim about the pick having to be #1 twice in a row for it not to convey. That's not true.

I've been clear: the protection on the #1 pick makes a bad deal slightly worse. Any deal that relies on pure luck to prevent a disastrous return is one I wouldn't agree to.

Is it pure luck betting that one out of the Kings and the Sixers will be a bottom 10 team in 2019?

I don't think so. I think it is a high likelihood that if we don't get the LA pick (2-5) in 2018, the better or the Sixers or Kings pick in 2019 is going to be very good. If it somehow ends up #1, then yeah, it is possible that the other pick in 2019 is average instead of very good. The probability of all of that happening , to result in getting the worst of the two 2019 picks though, is pretty low.

I don't like the #1 restriction. Without the restriction, they're guaranteed a top pick. With it,  if one team is much better than the other, they could wind up with next to nothing.

On rethinking this, I suspect Danny doesn't want any of those no.1s. At $7M and rising, they dig into the cap and could limit FA signings. Plus he doesn't see much difference in the top few picks to warrant the extra money. I even think he's inclined to trade the #3 at $5M. It's about money. That's $5M less for Butler or George.

[GreenEnvy]

phew! dodged a bullet there huh, almost thought we were gonna actually take or trade for something that can make up 50 points worth of ground during a ECF playoff game...  lets go further back with this thing Ainge, let's work until we have all 60 picks in a draft and then we can have the safest draft of all time. No pressure at all to come up with this elusive **** transcendent player...

I can already hear it now after this draft is over and well done with: ¨you really expect Ainge to draft transcendent player at #3?, I´ll have you know Josh Jackson was a decent pick and still generally considered a useful player¨

You're right , how could we possibly think that?

I mean, Michael Jordan was drafted at #3, Kevin McHale at #3, Larry Bird was drafted at #6, Stephen Curry at #7, Paul Pierce at #10.

How could we possibly draft a great player at #3?

Nice names... where are they exactly on this DraftExpress list? I dont see them ¨can make up 50 points worth of ground during a ECF playoff game¨ listed as the ceiling for Jayson Tatum?

Something else nice about that list of yours... Ainge didnt draft any of those players.

His point, I believe, is that just because a player isn't viewed as the best after a year or three in college, doesn't mean they can't become a great player.

Is Steph transcendent enough for 6 other teams to like other players more? It happens. Just because Fultz/Ball are likely 1-2, doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be the two best players from the draft.

[Ogaju]

Great flow chart!! TP!

I'm basically just posting stuff as it comes across the CB Twitter, but thanks!

The best part of this is that it ties up all of the 18 Lakers, 19 Phil., and 19 Sac. none of which can be used in trade to upgrade Phil. roster at least until after the lottery is decided next year!  Those picks would have been competition for the C's in trades and can't be used by Phil. to upgrade their roster.

Good and undernoted point, the deal effectively ties Philly's hands at trades involving any of the 3 picks until the 2018 lottery (assuming the Lakers are in it). I don't think it makes too much difference to them but they won't be able to wheel and deal with the picks even though 2 of the 3 will ultimately be theirs.

TP to FWF for the flowchart and TP to Oracle for an astute observation.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Fans are actually celebrating that the trade got worse?

Yes and it's why I can't even talk or look anything Celtic's without having a legit medical issue. The 2019 #1 protection is just salt in the wound. IMO DA should have gotten more for the #1 overall from the sixers.

Also I'm super p---ed bc Ainge did this bc we have a crowded back-court. What a joke.

[GreenEnvy]

Fans are actually celebrating that the trade got worse?

What are the chances lakers or sac win the #1 pick? But both lakers and sac win the #1 consecutive years

You are getting mad about something that doesnt have a high chance of happening??....

Im so sick of arguing with people who have strong opinions but that can't or don't interpret basic information.

The Lakers pick doesn't have to be #1 for it not to convey.

what are you talking about?

you don't think I know this?

You are getting upset because there is a protection on the Kings pick (#1)...

What are the chances it will be the #1 pick? if the chances are low...what are you getting all worked up about?

Overall its a good return with a low chance one of the picks sukking... Several things must go wrong for the Celts to get a bad pick

Just because you are upset the Celts are not going to draft Fultz..  don't make this look like a bad deal

You said:

But both lakers and sac win the #1 consecutive years

The Lakers pick doesn't need to be #1 for the SAC pick to convey. If you knew how the deal worked you wouldn't make that argument.

I was trying to prove a point

Roy you are not happy the Celtics are not going to draft Fultz....

I didn't see you jumping with joy even if the understanding was that the 2019 pick was going to be fully unprotected

Now that there is a protection 2019 #1... you are making this deal sound worst than it is.... 

It is feeding to your overall displeasure that the Celts are not going to draft Fultz

you can correct me if I'm wrong

You made a false claim about the pick having to be #1 twice in a row for it not to convey. That's not true.

I've been clear: the protection on the #1 pick makes a bad deal slightly worse. Any deal that relies on pure luck to prevent a disastrous return is one I wouldn't agree to.

Is it pure luck betting that one out of the Kings and the Sixers will be a bottom 10 team in 2019?

I don't think so. I think it is a high likelihood that if we don't get the LA pick (2-5) in 2018, the better or the Sixers or Kings pick in 2019 is going to be very good. If it somehow ends up #1, then yeah, it is possible that the other pick in 2019 is average instead of very good. The probability of all of that happening , to result in getting the worst of the two 2019 picks though, is pretty low.

I don't like the #1 restriction. Without the restriction, they're guaranteed a top pick. With it,  if one team is much better than the other, they could wind up with next to nothing.

On rethinking this, I suspect Danny doesn't want any of those no.1s. At $7M and rising, they dig into the cap and could limit FA signings. Plus he doesn't see much difference in the top few picks to warrant the extra money. I even think he's inclined to trade the #3 at $5M. It's about money. That's $5M less for Butler or George.

I think the salary slot for #1 vs #3 was a big factor. Just not for Butler/George (when resigning either of those guys, we'd already be way over the cap), but for the max free agent. Whether it's Hayward or Griffin, freeing up the difference by trading down should give us the full max, or close enough to it.

I think Ainge weighed all his options and decided moving down could still net us a great prospect and free up the money necessary to land a FA. Then make the trade for Butler because he's cost effective for two more years. The contract matters. Horford, Hayward/Griffin, IT will all be maxes in 2018. It's better to have a Butler making $20M than George making $30M.

I'd trade Crowder/Bradley/protected first for Butler.

Then you ride with Smart, Brown, Zizic, #3, Nets (and hopefully Lakers) 2018('s) as the future.

That still sounds like a $140M payroll, ugh.

[The Oracle]

The best part of this is that it ties up all of the 18 Lakers, 19 Phil., and 19 Sac. none of which can be used in trade to upgrade Phil. roster at least until after the lottery is decided next year!  Those picks would have been competition for the C's in trades and can't be used by Phil. to upgrade their roster.

Very good, underrated point.

Sort of. The picks can still be traded.  For instance, PHI can trade 2018 LAL #1 (protetected 2-5); if not conveyed whichever pick does not convey to BOS in 2019.

Your wording is not possible, either Boston hits the Lakers 2018 or the team Phil. traded the rest of the pick to got it.  If the Lakers pick did not convey to the other team it conveyed to Boston and Boston would no longer be involved with the 2019 picks. 

With that said no way does Phil. trade those lottery ticket shots at the 1st picks in 2018 and 2019 for some middling to poor asset, forget about those they are not being traded.

The wording on trading the suck end (6-30) of the Lakers 2018, Sac. 2019, Phil. 2019 would be ridiculous if not conveyed.  At minimum Phil. would have to tie up another pick such as Phil. 2020 just to cover for the scenario where none conveyed. 

The tradability of all 3 of those picks has essentially been removed or at best all of the valuable results are tied up.  2 of those 3 picks will ultimately still be Phil. picks and yet none of them can return any more significant value in trade for the next year.  Sheer genius from the C's brain trust. 

[Roy H.]

The best part of this is that it ties up all of the 18 Lakers, 19 Phil., and 19 Sac. none of which can be used in trade to upgrade Phil. roster at least until after the lottery is decided next year!  Those picks would have been competition for the C's in trades and can't be used by Phil. to upgrade their roster.

Very good, underrated point.

Sort of. The picks can still be traded.  For instance, PHI can trade 2018 LAL #1 (protetected 2-5); if not conveyed whichever pick does not convey to BOS in 2019.

Your wording is not possible, either Boston hits the Lakers 2018 or the team Phil. traded the rest of the pick to got it.  If the Lakers pick did not convey to the other team it conveyed to Boston and Boston would no longer be involved with the 2019 picks. 

With that said no way does Phil. trade those lottery ticket shots at the 1st picks in 2018 and 2019 for some middling to poor asset, forget about those they are not being traded.

The wording on trading the suck end (6-30) of the Lakers 2018, Sac. 2019, Phil. 2019 would be ridiculous if not conveyed.  At minimum Phil. would have to tie up another pick such as Phil. 2020 just to cover for the scenario where none conveyed. 

The tradability of all 3 of those picks has essentially been removed or at best all of the valuable results are tied up.  2 of those 3 picks will ultimately still be Phil. picks and yet none of them can return any more significant value in trade for the next year.  Sheer genius from the C's brain trust.

The point is, the picks can still be traded, and fairly easily.  All Philly needs to do is add protections that make the picks convey only if Boston doesn't get them. It devalues the assets to some extent, but they've still got enough value to return something good in trade.  That's a lot different than your original argument that the picks couldn't be traded.