Idea - AB for Jahlil

[Real World]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

This is kind of a funny example.

Did you know the year before Okafor came Thomas Robinson actually played for the 76ers and put up 9 points and 7.7 rebounds on 47% shooting in just 18 minutes a game. You realize this is pretty similar to Okafor putting up 11 points and 5 rebounds on 51% shooting in 23 minutes a game? You made have just inadvertently made a really good point against Okafor, unless you want us to get Thomas Robinson for Avery Bradley.

That's a tremendous cherry pick of Robinsons career stats.  22 games out of the 313 he's played.

JO avg 17 & 7 his rookie year, and 12 & 5 last year in 8 fewer minutes per game.  I think everyone would agree he's been a disappointment so far, but the idea behind his numbers is that he's shown that he does have some talent.  Robinson on the other hand....

Robinson's season averages since being drafted are:

2013 - 4.8 ppg
2014 - 4.8
2015 - 5.7
2016 - 4.3
2017 - 5.0

Okafor has been far more productive as a pro, and is a much better talent than Robinson.  I'd totally take a flyer on him were I the Celtics.  Put him next to Horford, allowing Al to play the 4, and you might maximize JO's potential.  I'd do it for AB because I think AB is gone anyway, and I'd rather take a shot on an upside big than let him walk for free, or take the 25th pick in the 2019 draft.  But, I'm not Danny Ainge and in DA I trust.

Yea but isn't it extremely relevant to the discussion? He literally played on the same team as Okafor did, a year earlier, with many of the same teammates. That is the entire point. Players that are not very good could put up some points on those teams cause someone had to score. Don't those Robinson stats scare you a little bit? We very well could be talking about Okafor averaging 6 points somewhere in a year or two if he doesn't figure out defense.

Anytime a player that was drafted in the top end of the lottery becomes available early in their careers it should scare people.  It's a risk no doubt.  Hence my trust in DA.  He knows better than I do. 

From my ignorant position as a fan, I'd roll the dice on JO at the right price.  Robinson was 23 when he played for the Sixers, and was in his 3rd year. JO was 20 his rookie year when he went for 17 & 7.  We've had 5 years and 6 teams to scout TR, and it's fair to say he's been bad on pretty much all of them.  I think JO has shown that he's got skills for a big man, which is something the Celtics have a need for.  He's taller, has a longer wingspan, and higher standing reach than Robinson.  JO can (or has the potential to) rim protect with his frame and build.  TR not so much.   Okafor can play the 5, TR can't.   To me JO  > TR.    I'd drive Rozier to Philly if that would get it done, and I'd be ok with moving Bradley for him because I just don't think he's sticking with the Celtics.  He's going to cost to much on his next deal.  It would be a risky play though, no doubt.

[RodyTur10]

Keep Bradley and let him be the off guard with Fultz as our PG after this season when IT wants max money. Bradley is criminally underrated.

If Jahlil is as defensively bad as advertised he wont see the floor under CBS.

I'm with you. Bradley with his defense and off the ball play seems the best fit with Fultz. Normally I would tend to choose between the best now (Thomas) or the youngest with high potential (Smart/Rozier), but this time I believe you get the best return for your money with Bradley.

Thomas will be too expensive, defensive liability and might decline when it matters and Smart/Rozier haven't shown to be reliable on the offensive end. Also Bradley is definetely underrated. Somehow people rate Crowder higher than him, but Bradley to me is quite clearly the 3rd best player right now.

[Real World]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

This is kind of a funny example.

Did you know the year before Okafor came Thomas Robinson actually played for the 76ers and put up 9 points and 7.7 rebounds on 47% shooting in just 18 minutes a game. You realize this is pretty similar to Okafor putting up 11 points and 5 rebounds on 51% shooting in 23 minutes a game? You made have just inadvertently made a really good point against Okafor, unless you want us to get Thomas Robinson for Avery Bradley.

That's a tremendous cherry pick of Robinsons career stats.  22 games out of the 313 he's played.

JO avg 17 & 7 his rookie year, and 12 & 5 last year in 8 fewer minutes per game.  I think everyone would agree he's been a disappointment so far, but the idea behind his numbers is that he's shown that he does have some talent.  Robinson on the other hand....

Robinson's season averages since being drafted are:

2013 - 4.8 ppg
2014 - 4.8
2015 - 5.7
2016 - 4.3
2017 - 5.0

Okafor has been far more productive as a pro, and is a much better talent than Robinson.  I'd totally take a flyer on him were I the Celtics.  Put him next to Horford, allowing Al to play the 4, and you might maximize JO's potential.  I'd do it for AB because I think AB is gone anyway, and I'd rather take a shot on an upside big than let him walk for free, or take the 25th pick in the 2019 draft.  But, I'm not Danny Ainge and in DA I trust.

Out comparison is also pretty misleading.

You list pure ppg when it is the only thing Okafor has done well. He's had much more minutes than TRob and TRob has rebounded at an elite rate.

I'm not gonna get in to how horrible the idea of placing Jah next to Al or the fact that JO for AB is horrible value even if AB is gone anyway.

TR does rebound well.  So did Sully.  At some point you have to be able to do more than that.  Okafor has average over a block per game in his 2 seasons.  His size alone at the 5 would be a welcome addition to the roster.  JO is better than Zeller, Amir, and Mickey who are borderline useless, or overpaid for what little they provide.

AB might be an over pay.  No doubt.  This is the nba though.  In most trades you never get equal value.  The circumstances of the team, the contract, and market tend to dictate the return as much as the players talent does.  Someone is going to pay AB, just like someone paid Evan Turner.  The Celtics shouldn't pay AB, as solid a player as he is.  In the NBA you win with studs, and those studs (especially now) eat up virtually all the cap money.  Paying guys like AB $20 million per can really squeeze your cap going forward.  This is why it is likely going to be very difficult to get equal value for AB should he be traded.