I'm about on-board with just developing Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks

[jpotter33]

I cant speak for anyone else but my frustration is not about this game but is illustrated by this game. The starters are good but limited in what they can individually do as players. They are all good players but collectively they arent good enough or have the room to grow that will make them elite players.

I have said this for weeks and I will say it again. I dont think Crowder and AB can play next to each other. They are too limited next to each other since neither is a playmaker, neither draw alot of fouls, nor put it on the deck consistently thus never being able to truly attack a guy like DeRozen.

I also dont think Amir can play center effectively. Last year he played the 4 and this year although Horford is an upgrade, its forced Amir to play the 5.

Lastly, I think the underline current is that everyone knows we have to make a decision on IT in the next 12 months. This is a major source of concern because this group has shown that it cant beat top level teams as currently constituted and I dont think that many people believe that just adding one star to this group will get them close to a title so you are somewhat stuck looking at the results of the game last night and previous games against top teams.

This is pretty much where I'm at. This team is currently inherently flawed, which was demonstrated emphatically last night, and I don't think you can realistically get to a spot right now where we can upgrade our talent enough to cover up for our stars' deficiencies, along with our other role players' deficiencies. So I don't think we should waste major trade assets to try and improve the team.

I think many people misread what I actually wrote. I never advocated "blowing things up" right now. I said two things: 1) perhaps we shouldn't trade the Brooklyn picks for any immediate upgrade, and 2) perhaps we open up the possibility of listening to offers for Al, IT, AB, and Jae this summer. If we can fleece another younger, desperate team looking for veteran help (such as Minny, LAL, Denver, Philly, etc.) this summer like we did with Brooklyn, then I think we should consider that possibility.

Ideally, this is what I would do:

1) Try my hardest to trade for Noel without giving up any of our core assets in Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks. Near the deadline, this should be possible, and in my opinion, he puts us right there with Toronto in the East to help with our rebounding and defense. He's also probably the best young center prospect we can get anytime soon, so it's a win-win in my opinion.

2) Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Hopefully, you can make it to the ECF and give the Cavs a good series, which would provide you some legitimacy with free agency.

3) Hope for lottery luck. At the draft, assume to take the BPA, which let's assume is Fultz.

4) In free agency, do our best to try and get Griffin, even including letting Noel go if need be. If we're unable to land him, then lock up Noel and fill out the bench with cheaper vets and bringing back over Yab and Zizic, if possible. Also, quietly gauge the market to see how much interest there might be in our vets. Do a good deal if one presents itself; if not, then go forward as we are.

5) Play next season with that lineup, making sure to give plenty of developmental minutes to Smart, Fultz, Brown, and Noel. Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Do a good deal for one of our vets if it presents itself; if not, just push as far as you can in the playoffs.

6) Hope for lottery luck once again and do what you can to draft a big to be Horford's successor.

7) At this point, I think you let Bradley walk. As for IT, you tell him that you're open to resigning him, but it'll be as the sixth man off the bench, which I doubt he takes. Ideally, you're also able to trade Horford for a good young big or future draft picks at this point, but let's just say we keep him. You then move forward with your new young core of:

PG: Smart
SG: Fultz
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Horford, 2018 draft pick, Yab
C: Noel, Zizic

At this point it's just hoping that one or two of Smart, Fultz, Brown, or the 2018 pick prove to be star-level players and that Noel can be the DPOY-level player that he has the potential to be.

[max215]

It's really as simple as this.

You cannot compete as a "top 4" contender if one of your starters is a negative on one end of the floor.

Beyond IT4's defense, we have Amir's offense, and Jae Crowder's inconsistencies. I expect all 3 will not be starting on the Cs during a true contention playoff run.

What?! Someone tell the Cavs, Rockets, Spurs, last year's Thunder, etc.

[tazzmaniac]

I cant speak for anyone else but my frustration is not about this game but is illustrated by this game. The starters are good but limited in what they can individually do as players. They are all good players but collectively they arent good enough or have the room to grow that will make them elite players.

I have said this for weeks and I will say it again. I dont think Crowder and AB can play next to each other. They are too limited next to each other since neither is a playmaker, neither draw alot of fouls, nor put it on the deck consistently thus never being able to truly attack a guy like DeRozen.

I also dont think Amir can play center effectively. Last year he played the 4 and this year although Horford is an upgrade, its forced Amir to play the 5.

Lastly, I think the underline current is that everyone knows we have to make a decision on IT in the next 12 months. This is a major source of concern because this group has shown that it cant beat top level teams as currently constituted and I dont think that many people believe that just adding one star to this group will get them close to a title so you are somewhat stuck looking at the results of the game last night and previous games against top teams.

This is pretty much where I'm at. This team is currently inherently flawed, which was demonstrated emphatically last night, and I don't think you can realistically get to a spot right now where we can upgrade our talent enough to cover up for our stars' deficiencies, along with our other role players' deficiencies. So I don't think we should waste major trade assets to try and improve the team.

I think many people misread what I actually wrote. I never advocated "blowing things up" right now. I said two things: 1) perhaps we shouldn't trade the Brooklyn picks for any immediate upgrade, and 2) perhaps we open up the possibility of listening to offers for Al, IT, AB, and Jae this summer. If we can fleece another younger, desperate team looking for veteran help (such as Minny, LAL, Denver, Philly, etc.) this summer like we did with Brooklyn, then I think we should consider that possibility.

Ideally, this is what I would do:

1) Try my hardest to trade for Noel without giving up any of our core assets in Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks. Near the deadline, this should be possible, and in my opinion, he puts us right there with Toronto in the East to help with our rebounding and defense. He's also probably the best young center prospect we can get anytime soon, so it's a win-win in my opinion.

2) Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Hopefully, you can make it to the ECF and give the Cavs a good series, which would provide you some legitimacy with free agency.

3) Hope for lottery luck. At the draft, assume to take the BPA, which let's assume is Fultz.

4) In free agency, do our best to try and get Griffin, even including letting Noel go if need be. If we're unable to land him, then lock up Noel and fill out the bench with cheaper vets and bringing back over Yab and Zizic, if possible. Also, quietly gauge the market to see how much interest there might be in our vets. Do a good deal if one presents itself; if not, then go forward as we are.

5) Play next season with that lineup, making sure to give plenty of developmental minutes to Smart, Fultz, Brown, and Noel. Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Do a good deal for one of our vets if it presents itself; if not, just push as far as you can in the playoffs.

6) Hope for lottery luck once again and do what you can to draft a big to be Horford's successor.

7) At this point, I think you let Bradley walk. As for IT, you tell him that you're open to resigning him, but it'll be as the sixth man off the bench, which I doubt he takes. Ideally, you're also able to trade Horford for a good young big or future draft picks at this point, but let's just say we keep him. You then move forward with your new young core of:

PG: Smart
SG: Fultz
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Horford, 2018 draft pick, Yab
C: Noel, Zizic

At this point it's just hoping that one or two of Smart, Fultz, Brown, or the 2018 pick prove to be star-level players and that Noel can be the DPOY-level player that he has the potential to be.

Why would you let AB and IT walk for nothing?  If they are not in our future plans, they ought to be actively shopped to see if there's a good return for either.  I would think Bradley would be especially desirable.  It would be nice to get another good pick in this draft to use on an athletic big (e.g. Robert Williams).   

[jpotter33]

I cant speak for anyone else but my frustration is not about this game but is illustrated by this game. The starters are good but limited in what they can individually do as players. They are all good players but collectively they arent good enough or have the room to grow that will make them elite players.

I have said this for weeks and I will say it again. I dont think Crowder and AB can play next to each other. They are too limited next to each other since neither is a playmaker, neither draw alot of fouls, nor put it on the deck consistently thus never being able to truly attack a guy like DeRozen.

I also dont think Amir can play center effectively. Last year he played the 4 and this year although Horford is an upgrade, its forced Amir to play the 5.

Lastly, I think the underline current is that everyone knows we have to make a decision on IT in the next 12 months. This is a major source of concern because this group has shown that it cant beat top level teams as currently constituted and I dont think that many people believe that just adding one star to this group will get them close to a title so you are somewhat stuck looking at the results of the game last night and previous games against top teams.

This is pretty much where I'm at. This team is currently inherently flawed, which was demonstrated emphatically last night, and I don't think you can realistically get to a spot right now where we can upgrade our talent enough to cover up for our stars' deficiencies, along with our other role players' deficiencies. So I don't think we should waste major trade assets to try and improve the team.

I think many people misread what I actually wrote. I never advocated "blowing things up" right now. I said two things: 1) perhaps we shouldn't trade the Brooklyn picks for any immediate upgrade, and 2) perhaps we open up the possibility of listening to offers for Al, IT, AB, and Jae this summer. If we can fleece another younger, desperate team looking for veteran help (such as Minny, LAL, Denver, Philly, etc.) this summer like we did with Brooklyn, then I think we should consider that possibility.

Ideally, this is what I would do:

1) Try my hardest to trade for Noel without giving up any of our core assets in Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks. Near the deadline, this should be possible, and in my opinion, he puts us right there with Toronto in the East to help with our rebounding and defense. He's also probably the best young center prospect we can get anytime soon, so it's a win-win in my opinion.

2) Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Hopefully, you can make it to the ECF and give the Cavs a good series, which would provide you some legitimacy with free agency.

3) Hope for lottery luck. At the draft, assume to take the BPA, which let's assume is Fultz.

4) In free agency, do our best to try and get Griffin, even including letting Noel go if need be. If we're unable to land him, then lock up Noel and fill out the bench with cheaper vets and bringing back over Yab and Zizic, if possible. Also, quietly gauge the market to see how much interest there might be in our vets. Do a good deal if one presents itself; if not, then go forward as we are.

5) Play next season with that lineup, making sure to give plenty of developmental minutes to Smart, Fultz, Brown, and Noel. Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Do a good deal for one of our vets if it presents itself; if not, just push as far as you can in the playoffs.

6) Hope for lottery luck once again and do what you can to draft a big to be Horford's successor.

7) At this point, I think you let Bradley walk. As for IT, you tell him that you're open to resigning him, but it'll be as the sixth man off the bench, which I doubt he takes. Ideally, you're also able to trade Horford for a good young big or future draft picks at this point, but let's just say we keep him. You then move forward with your new young core of:

PG: Smart
SG: Fultz
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Horford, 2018 draft pick, Yab
C: Noel, Zizic

At this point it's just hoping that one or two of Smart, Fultz, Brown, or the 2018 pick prove to be star-level players and that Noel can be the DPOY-level player that he has the potential to be.

Why would you let AB and IT walk for nothing?  If they are not in our future plans, they ought to be actively shopped to see if there's a good return for either.  I would think Bradley would be especially desirable.  It would be nice to get another good pick in this draft to use on an athletic big (e.g. Robert Williams).

I did say that we should gauge the market for them, both this summer and before the trade deadline next year, and we should make a good trade for them if it presents itself.

However, I'm fine with being a faux contender with them if no good deal presents itself for a trade, since we're getting replenished with young talent by the Brooklyn picks anyways.

Of course, I think there'd be significant interest in AB, Crowder, and Al across the league, and lesser so with IT, so a trade could definitely be found. I'd even say that the Lakers pick from the Sixers would be attainable for one or two of those vets, because the Sixers clearly want and need to mix their young talent with some vets, though it'd more than likely be after the draft and after we failed to sign a big like Griffin.

[clevelandceltic]

One thing I want to add here. I think we all should continue to watch how Smart plays the point. They have shortened the rotation and Smart have been the PG. Even with IT in the game he have played point. I would like to see where this goes because it might tell you alot about what this team might do with IT.

[tazzmaniac]

I cant speak for anyone else but my frustration is not about this game but is illustrated by this game. The starters are good but limited in what they can individually do as players. They are all good players but collectively they arent good enough or have the room to grow that will make them elite players.

I have said this for weeks and I will say it again. I dont think Crowder and AB can play next to each other. They are too limited next to each other since neither is a playmaker, neither draw alot of fouls, nor put it on the deck consistently thus never being able to truly attack a guy like DeRozen.

I also dont think Amir can play center effectively. Last year he played the 4 and this year although Horford is an upgrade, its forced Amir to play the 5.

Lastly, I think the underline current is that everyone knows we have to make a decision on IT in the next 12 months. This is a major source of concern because this group has shown that it cant beat top level teams as currently constituted and I dont think that many people believe that just adding one star to this group will get them close to a title so you are somewhat stuck looking at the results of the game last night and previous games against top teams.

This is pretty much where I'm at. This team is currently inherently flawed, which was demonstrated emphatically last night, and I don't think you can realistically get to a spot right now where we can upgrade our talent enough to cover up for our stars' deficiencies, along with our other role players' deficiencies. So I don't think we should waste major trade assets to try and improve the team.

I think many people misread what I actually wrote. I never advocated "blowing things up" right now. I said two things: 1) perhaps we shouldn't trade the Brooklyn picks for any immediate upgrade, and 2) perhaps we open up the possibility of listening to offers for Al, IT, AB, and Jae this summer. If we can fleece another younger, desperate team looking for veteran help (such as Minny, LAL, Denver, Philly, etc.) this summer like we did with Brooklyn, then I think we should consider that possibility.

Ideally, this is what I would do:

1) Try my hardest to trade for Noel without giving up any of our core assets in Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks. Near the deadline, this should be possible, and in my opinion, he puts us right there with Toronto in the East to help with our rebounding and defense. He's also probably the best young center prospect we can get anytime soon, so it's a win-win in my opinion.

2) Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Hopefully, you can make it to the ECF and give the Cavs a good series, which would provide you some legitimacy with free agency.

3) Hope for lottery luck. At the draft, assume to take the BPA, which let's assume is Fultz.

4) In free agency, do our best to try and get Griffin, even including letting Noel go if need be. If we're unable to land him, then lock up Noel and fill out the bench with cheaper vets and bringing back over Yab and Zizic, if possible. Also, quietly gauge the market to see how much interest there might be in our vets. Do a good deal if one presents itself; if not, then go forward as we are.

5) Play next season with that lineup, making sure to give plenty of developmental minutes to Smart, Fultz, Brown, and Noel. Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Do a good deal for one of our vets if it presents itself; if not, just push as far as you can in the playoffs.

6) Hope for lottery luck once again and do what you can to draft a big to be Horford's successor.

7) At this point, I think you let Bradley walk. As for IT, you tell him that you're open to resigning him, but it'll be as the sixth man off the bench, which I doubt he takes. Ideally, you're also able to trade Horford for a good young big or future draft picks at this point, but let's just say we keep him. You then move forward with your new young core of:

PG: Smart
SG: Fultz
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Horford, 2018 draft pick, Yab
C: Noel, Zizic

At this point it's just hoping that one or two of Smart, Fultz, Brown, or the 2018 pick prove to be star-level players and that Noel can be the DPOY-level player that he has the potential to be.

Why would you let AB and IT walk for nothing?  If they are not in our future plans, they ought to be actively shopped to see if there's a good return for either.  I would think Bradley would be especially desirable.  It would be nice to get another good pick in this draft to use on an athletic big (e.g. Robert Williams).

I did say that we should gauge the market for them, both this summer and before the trade deadline next year, and we should make a good trade for them if it presents itself.

However, I'm fine with being a faux contender with them if no good deal presents itself for a trade, since we're getting replenished with young talent by the Brooklyn picks anyways.

Of course, I think there'd be significant interest in AB, Crowder, and Al across the league, and lesser so with IT, so a trade could definitely be found. I'd even say that the Lakers pick from the Sixers would be attainable for one or two of those vets, because the Sixers clearly want and need to mix their young talent with some vets, though it'd more than likely be after the draft and after we failed to sign a big like Griffin.

The Lakers pick and Noel for Bradley and the Memphis 1st is what I was what I was thinking about.  With the high variability on the Lakers pick, it is hard to put a specific value on it.  I think Bradley would be a great fit with Simmons and Embiid.  Simmons could play the PG offensively and Bradley could play it defensively.   

[jpotter33]

I cant speak for anyone else but my frustration is not about this game but is illustrated by this game. The starters are good but limited in what they can individually do as players. They are all good players but collectively they arent good enough or have the room to grow that will make them elite players.

I have said this for weeks and I will say it again. I dont think Crowder and AB can play next to each other. They are too limited next to each other since neither is a playmaker, neither draw alot of fouls, nor put it on the deck consistently thus never being able to truly attack a guy like DeRozen.

I also dont think Amir can play center effectively. Last year he played the 4 and this year although Horford is an upgrade, its forced Amir to play the 5.

Lastly, I think the underline current is that everyone knows we have to make a decision on IT in the next 12 months. This is a major source of concern because this group has shown that it cant beat top level teams as currently constituted and I dont think that many people believe that just adding one star to this group will get them close to a title so you are somewhat stuck looking at the results of the game last night and previous games against top teams.

This is pretty much where I'm at. This team is currently inherently flawed, which was demonstrated emphatically last night, and I don't think you can realistically get to a spot right now where we can upgrade our talent enough to cover up for our stars' deficiencies, along with our other role players' deficiencies. So I don't think we should waste major trade assets to try and improve the team.

I think many people misread what I actually wrote. I never advocated "blowing things up" right now. I said two things: 1) perhaps we shouldn't trade the Brooklyn picks for any immediate upgrade, and 2) perhaps we open up the possibility of listening to offers for Al, IT, AB, and Jae this summer. If we can fleece another younger, desperate team looking for veteran help (such as Minny, LAL, Denver, Philly, etc.) this summer like we did with Brooklyn, then I think we should consider that possibility.

Ideally, this is what I would do:

1) Try my hardest to trade for Noel without giving up any of our core assets in Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks. Near the deadline, this should be possible, and in my opinion, he puts us right there with Toronto in the East to help with our rebounding and defense. He's also probably the best young center prospect we can get anytime soon, so it's a win-win in my opinion.

2) Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Hopefully, you can make it to the ECF and give the Cavs a good series, which would provide you some legitimacy with free agency.

3) Hope for lottery luck. At the draft, assume to take the BPA, which let's assume is Fultz.

4) In free agency, do our best to try and get Griffin, even including letting Noel go if need be. If we're unable to land him, then lock up Noel and fill out the bench with cheaper vets and bringing back over Yab and Zizic, if possible. Also, quietly gauge the market to see how much interest there might be in our vets. Do a good deal if one presents itself; if not, then go forward as we are.

5) Play next season with that lineup, making sure to give plenty of developmental minutes to Smart, Fultz, Brown, and Noel. Go as far as you can in the playoffs. Do a good deal for one of our vets if it presents itself; if not, just push as far as you can in the playoffs.

6) Hope for lottery luck once again and do what you can to draft a big to be Horford's successor.

7) At this point, I think you let Bradley walk. As for IT, you tell him that you're open to resigning him, but it'll be as the sixth man off the bench, which I doubt he takes. Ideally, you're also able to trade Horford for a good young big or future draft picks at this point, but let's just say we keep him. You then move forward with your new young core of:

PG: Smart
SG: Fultz
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Horford, 2018 draft pick, Yab
C: Noel, Zizic

At this point it's just hoping that one or two of Smart, Fultz, Brown, or the 2018 pick prove to be star-level players and that Noel can be the DPOY-level player that he has the potential to be.

Why would you let AB and IT walk for nothing?  If they are not in our future plans, they ought to be actively shopped to see if there's a good return for either.  I would think Bradley would be especially desirable.  It would be nice to get another good pick in this draft to use on an athletic big (e.g. Robert Williams).

I did say that we should gauge the market for them, both this summer and before the trade deadline next year, and we should make a good trade for them if it presents itself.

However, I'm fine with being a faux contender with them if no good deal presents itself for a trade, since we're getting replenished with young talent by the Brooklyn picks anyways.

Of course, I think there'd be significant interest in AB, Crowder, and Al across the league, and lesser so with IT, so a trade could definitely be found. I'd even say that the Lakers pick from the Sixers would be attainable for one or two of those vets, because the Sixers clearly want and need to mix their young talent with some vets, though it'd more than likely be after the draft and after we failed to sign a big like Griffin.

The Lakers pick and Noel for Bradley and the Memphis 1st is what I was what I was thinking about.  With the high variability on the Lakers pick, it is hard to put a specific value on it.  I think Bradley would be a great fit with Simmons and Embiid.  Simmons could play the PG offensively and Bradley could play it defensively.   

I think Bradley and Crowder would both be excellent fits there. If they got someone like Dennis Smith Jr with their pick, they could roll out a lineup of Smith, AB, Jae, Simmons, and Embiid, which has tremendous potential.

A sign and trade this summer of Noel and the Lakers pick for AB and Crowder and perhaps the Memphis pick would be a pretty good deal I think, especially if someone like Taytum or Jackson slipped to the Lakers pick. That would also open up plenty of time for Fultz (I assume our pick) and Brown, along with who we got from the Lakers pick.

[Eja117]

I'm becoming way more open minded to trading IT.  Probably can't trade Horford but I'd love to try that too

[Phantom255x]

I'm becoming way more open minded to trading IT.  Probably can't trade Horford but I'd love to try that too

I don't think Horford signed here to see the C's trade IT..

And what picture does it paint to other free agents if the C's sign Horford to the max and then trade him 3-4 months in...

[Eja117]

I'm becoming way more open minded to trading IT.  Probably can't trade Horford but I'd love to try that too

I don't think Horford signed here to see the C's trade IT..

And what picture does it paint to other free agents if the C's sign Horford to the max and then trade him 3-4 months in...

It sends the message you can't sign a big contract and then come here and just jack threes and collect checks