I'm about on-board with just developing Smart, Brown, and the Brooklyn picks

[jpotter33]

It's so disappointing to keep losing these types of games because our stars have significant weak spots/holes and our supporting cast just doesn't make up for it.

Al's rebounding is so bad for a man of his size, and for some reason this year he has crumbled down the stretch and made bad plays more than he has made good plays, which is strange since he's been a pretty good player down the stretch for most of his career.

Then you have IT and his horrid defense. I'll give it to him that he tries his best, but his size is just too much to overcome. He's literally the worst defensive player in the league when it comes to both the TPA model of Defensive Points Saved and the statistic Defensive Real Plus Minus. Now, I generally am skeptical of advanced defensive statistics and trust the eye test more, because I think they have a difficult time of accurately isolating a player's individual defensive impact. However, this time the stats and the eye test match up, and it's not pretty whatsoever.

http://nbamath.com/tpa-database/nba-2016-17-tpa-scores/

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/11/sort/DRPM

And the rest of the roster just isn't enough to compensate for these weaknesses. Jae is apparently mentally out of it now; Smart is still developing and too inconsistent with his shot; AB has non-existent playmaking and passing skills, along with having a significant size disadvantage; KO is as inconsistent as he is frustrating; Rozier and Brown are still too young and make too many mistakes to be really reliable; and JJ is just a limited overall player.

I'm getting to the point where I think this core might not be enough to be title worthy no matter what we (realistically) add to it. I'm not advocating a fire sale, but perhaps we ought to keep the Brooklyn picks at all costs and build from there rather than trading them, even for a Boogie type. I'd still try and trade for someone like Noel before the deadline, because he's young and good enough to be part of our core going forward, while also allowing us to still be competitive this year.

But perhaps we start listening to offers and being open to moving on from IT, AB, Crowder, and Horford for the right package this summer rather than considering paying the guards big money in 2018. IT and Al could bring back a significant return, and AB and Crowder are also valuable pieces that could bring back something in return.

After tonight, I'm just having trouble wrapping my mind around the possibility of paying IT $20+M per year when he is such a defensive liability that teams can exploit at almost any time during the game. I'm not sure that we can ever beat a Toronto, Cleveland, or GS when they have big/good guards that can just constantly exploit that mismatch in isolation plays or switches. And Horford has similar holes that makes me think that they're not capable of being a true 2 and 3 on a championship team.

[jpotter33]

Building around a core of Smart, Noel, Brown, Fultz (?), and the 2018 Brooklyn pick just seems like a more logical path to contention at the moment than dealing with flawed stars and a flawed roster that is criminally undersized from the guards to the bigs.

[mr. dee]

Most of our baggage are expiring contracts (KO, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Mickey, Young and Green). I expect Danny to dump most of them, if not all. With the BKN pick coming up along with our euro guys (Zizic and Yabu), it will be a certain upgrade with our current players.

Jaylen Brown will have a year in his belt and may have improved some certain part of his game as is Rozier during the off season. This team needed some more veteran presence off the bench, preferably with championship experience. Andrew Bogut could be that guy.

No reason to panic. We are still in good position for the present and future.

[jpotter33]

Most of our baggage are expiring contracts (KO, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Mickey, Young and Green). I expect Danny to dump most of them, if not all. With the BKN pick coming up along with our euro guys (Zizic and Yabu), it will be a certain upgrade with our current players.

Jaylen Brown will have a year in his belt and may have improved some certain part of his game as is Rozier during the off season. This team needed some more veteran presence off the bench, preferably with championship experience. Andrew Bogut could be that guy.

No reason to panic. We are still in good position for the present and future.

But after Smart's first two years with Brad playing him in the wrong role and out of position and hampering his development, I'm worried about Jaylen not getting as much playing time. At least Smart played full-time minutes from the get-go, but I really don't want our player with the highest ceiling to be stunted in his growth due to a semi-competitive team that was never good enough to get to the ECF due to inherent roster flaws with our personnel.

[mr. dee]

Most of our baggage are expiring contracts (KO, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Mickey, Young and Green). I expect Danny to dump most of them, if not all. With the BKN pick coming up along with our euro guys (Zizic and Yabu), it will be a certain upgrade with our current players.

Jaylen Brown will have a year in his belt and may have improved some certain part of his game as is Rozier during the off season. This team needed some more veteran presence off the bench, preferably with championship experience. Andrew Bogut could be that guy.

No reason to panic. We are still in good position for the present and future.

But after Smart's first two years with Brad playing him in the wrong role and out of position and hampering his development, I'm worried about Jaylen not getting as much playing time. At least Smart played full-time minutes from the get-go, but I really don't want our player with the highest ceiling to be stunted in his growth due to a semi-competitive team that was never good enough to get to the ECF due to inherent roster flaws with our personnel.

Danny signed Turner as a reclamation project and that 2014 team was still on rebuild mode with no certain direction. This season is more clear that we are trying to compete without mortgaging our future. This off season implies that Danny will only sign roster fits at this point. Smart no longer have to compete for ball handling spots against the likes of Green and Jaylen, in contrast where Turner hands the ball most of the time.

I can see Crowder getting traded at some point if he's really mentally done. But if this team managed to go to ECF in two years, Wyc will gladly pay all of Smart, IT and AB at the same time.

[droopdog7]

Most of our baggage are expiring contracts (KO, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Mickey, Young and Green). I expect Danny to dump most of them, if not all. With the BKN pick coming up along with our euro guys (Zizic and Yabu), it will be a certain upgrade with our current players.

Jaylen Brown will have a year in his belt and may have improved some certain part of his game as is Rozier during the off season. This team needed some more veteran presence off the bench, preferably with championship experience. Andrew Bogut could be that guy.

No reason to panic. We are still in good position for the present and future.

But after Smart's first two years with Brad playing him in the wrong role and out of position and hampering his development, I'm worried about Jaylen not getting as much playing time. At least Smart played full-time minutes from the get-go, but I really don't want our player with the highest ceiling to be stunted in his growth due to a semi-competitive team that was never good enough to get to the ECF due to inherent roster flaws with our personnel.

Come on man. Steve isn't stupid.  The reason Smart, and now Brown, are "playing out of postion" is because they haven't earned anything more. Brown will get a bigger role when earns it.  He can continue to develop in practice whiles contributing what he can in games.

[coffee425]

It's really as simple as this.

You cannot compete as a "top 4" contender if one of your starters is a negative on one end of the floor.

Beyond IT4's defense, we have Amir's offense, and Jae Crowder's inconsistencies. I expect all 3 will not be starting on the Cs during a true contention playoff run.

[moiso]

I'm on board with keeping the Brooklyn picks but definitely not on board with blowing it up and starting over.  I love watching this team.  It's my favorite Celtics team since the Big 3 team started declining.  You really want to blow the team up after watching it improve for a few years?  Not me.  I like the direction he chose of acquiring veterans and draft picks.  I think each move should be made on an individual basis for a while.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Most of our baggage are expiring contracts (KO, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Mickey, Young and Green). I expect Danny to dump most of them, if not all. With the BKN pick coming up along with our euro guys (Zizic and Yabu), it will be a certain upgrade with our current players.

Jaylen Brown will have a year in his belt and may have improved some certain part of his game as is Rozier during the off season. This team needed some more veteran presence off the bench, preferably with championship experience. Andrew Bogut could be that guy.

No reason to panic. We are still in good position for the present and future.

I really like this perspective and agree with the premise of the OP.  The suggestion is more realistic, the outlook promising, and we would be developing incrementally to compete at just the right time, imo. 

[ManUp]

This current team stinks of mediocrity.

Horford is a star in reputation only, Thomas is a scorer who offers nothing when he can't score. If we trade away the Brooklyn pick(s) for a max guy I still believe it leaves us a major move away from being contenders. I would much rather keep the picks than package them to build around Horford and Thomas.

[green_bballers13]

This current team stinks of mediocrity.

Horford is a star in reputation only, Thomas is a scorer who offers nothing when he can't score. If we trade away the Brooklyn pick(s) for a max guy I still believe it leaves us a major move away from being contenders. I would much rather keep the picks than package them to build around Horford and Thomas.

As much as I love IT, I think he and Horford are place holders until the BKN picks develop. Hopefully one (or both) are still productive players when our youngs (and future youngs) hit their prime. My guess is that both will see a deterioration in their game by 2022.

[tarheelsxxiii]

This current team stinks of mediocrity.

Horford is a star in reputation only, Thomas is a scorer who offers nothing when he can't score. If we trade away the Brooklyn pick(s) for a max guy I still believe it leaves us a major move away from being contenders. I would much rather keep the picks than package them to build around Horford and Thomas.

As much as I love IT, I think he and Horford are place holders until the BKN picks develop. Hopefully one (or both) are still productive players when our youngs (and future youngs) hit their prime. My guess is that both will see a deterioration in their game by 2022.

I'g guess IT and Horford will be in a near-perfect opportunity to make major contributions when the young guys/BKN picks have emerged. Al is locked up, and IT strikes me as a guy that'd take a pay cut to stay; but even if not, we could well end up with a great PG from this year's draft.   

[trickybilly]

This current team stinks of mediocrity.

Horford is a star in reputation only, Thomas is a scorer who offers nothing when he can't score. If we trade away the Brooklyn pick(s) for a max guy I still believe it leaves us a major move away from being contenders. I would much rather keep the picks than package them to build around Horford and Thomas.

As much as I love IT, I think he and Horford are place holders until the BKN picks develop. Hopefully one (or both) are still productive players when our youngs (and future youngs) hit their prime. My guess is that both will see a deterioration in their game by 2022.

I think the opposite re: the BKN picks.  They'll be in a near-perfect opportunity to make major contributions when IT and Al have slowed down but are still solid. Al is locked up, and IT strikes me as a guy that'd take a pay cut to stay; but even if not, we could well end up with a great PG from this year's draft.   

ALL ABOARD THE FULTZ TRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

[tarheelsxxiii]

This current team stinks of mediocrity.

Horford is a star in reputation only, Thomas is a scorer who offers nothing when he can't score. If we trade away the Brooklyn pick(s) for a max guy I still believe it leaves us a major move away from being contenders. I would much rather keep the picks than package them to build around Horford and Thomas.

As much as I love IT, I think he and Horford are place holders until the BKN picks develop. Hopefully one (or both) are still productive players when our youngs (and future youngs) hit their prime. My guess is that both will see a deterioration in their game by 2022.

I think the opposite re: the BKN picks.  They'll be in a near-perfect opportunity to make major contributions when IT and Al have slowed down but are still solid. Al is locked up, and IT strikes me as a guy that'd take a pay cut to stay; but even if not, we could well end up with a great PG from this year's draft.   

ALL ABOARD THE FULTZ TRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I also like Dennis Smith Jr. alot, and many others are on the "Ball train"

[PhoSita]

Building around a core of Smart, Noel, Brown, Fultz (?), and the 2018 Brooklyn pick just seems like a more logical path to contention at the moment than dealing with flawed stars and a flawed roster that is criminally undersized from the guards to the bigs.

A core of Smart, Noel, Brown, Fultz and the 2018 BRK isn't contending for the playoffs anytime soon, let alone a title.

The Celts have the luxury of enjoying a competent team without sacrificing a shot at three consecutive top 3 picks.

Yes, this group is probably destined to be a first or second round out for a few years.

But they'll also win a lot of games, play some fun basketball (especially against weaker opponents), and give us something to watch.

In four or five years, we'll still have a bunch of young guys ready to sink or swim on their own when guys like Thomas and Horford will be close to done.