Windhorst reporting Milsap is Available

[oldtype]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

[BitterJim]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

The salary of the Nets pick could be used after the draft to help, combine that with Zeller (depending on when his salary gets guaranteed) and you're most of the way to being able to trade for a star on a pre-cap jump contract.  It'd be hard to trade for a star this summer salary-wise, though, without including one of IT/AB/Jae.

[saltlover]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

Kelly Olynyk will not be a Celtic in a universe in which we get a max free agent next summer.  His cap hold requires he be not tendered a qualifying offer and renounced if the team wants to go the free agency route next summer.

[Moranis]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

You are wrong.  There is no way that Boston can sign a max free agent this summer and still have the salary necessary to make a trade next year without trading core pieces.  It is much easier to acquire Millsap now and then trade for someone else this season.  Say Millsap is acquired for Zeller, Jerekbo, Smart, and Boston's 2018 1st, that would still leave Johnson, Brown, Olynyk, etc. for a second trade this year.  That is about the only way Boston could acquire two stars without giving up a core piece (unless you think Smart and Olynyk are core pieces - I obviously don't). 

[saltlover]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

You are wrong.  There is no way that Boston can sign a max free agent this summer and still have the salary necessary to make a trade next year without trading core pieces.  It is much easier to acquire Millsap now and then trade for someone else this season.  Say Millsap is acquired for Zeller, Jerekbo, Smart, and Boston's 2018 1st, that would still leave Johnson, Brown, Olynyk, etc. for a second trade this year.  That is about the only way Boston could acquire two stars without giving up a core piece (unless you think Smart and Olynyk are core pieces - I obviously don't).

For what it's worth, you don't need to send Olynyk or Smart for salary purposes in most deals either. Amir makes enough that he can fit guys like Cousins and Hayward on his own, and Zeller + Jerebko get you even higher.  Now, of course, teams need to be willing to accept only draft picks (including Yab and Zizic) and lesser prospects like Rozier.  So we can even avoid the traditional argument around here about Smart and Olynyk.

But if people dream of adding two stars to this core, and expect ownership to pay a record luxury tax in two seasons, it can be done, but only if trades are made very soon.

[BitterJim]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

You are wrong.  There is no way that Boston can sign a max free agent this summer and still have the salary necessary to make a trade next year without trading core pieces.  It is much easier to acquire Millsap now and then trade for someone else this season.  Say Millsap is acquired for Zeller, Jerekbo, Smart, and Boston's 2018 1st, that would still leave Johnson, Brown, Olynyk, etc. for a second trade this year.  That is about the only way Boston could acquire two stars without giving up a core piece (unless you think Smart and Olynyk are core pieces - I obviously don't).

If you use the salary of the 2017 pick, Zeller, Brown, and Smart, you could bring back ~$26 million in salary (assuming that we got the 3rd pick, we pay 120% of the scale, and the rookie scale under the new CBA is the same as the current one), which is enough for all but 6 NBA players (and Al Horford, but we already have him).  At that point using guys like Rozier or DJax could get you up to any non-Lebron player.  It's a lot to give up, but not any/much more than in your hypothetical

[Moranis]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

You are wrong.  There is no way that Boston can sign a max free agent this summer and still have the salary necessary to make a trade next year without trading core pieces.  It is much easier to acquire Millsap now and then trade for someone else this season.  Say Millsap is acquired for Zeller, Jerekbo, Smart, and Boston's 2018 1st, that would still leave Johnson, Brown, Olynyk, etc. for a second trade this year.  That is about the only way Boston could acquire two stars without giving up a core piece (unless you think Smart and Olynyk are core pieces - I obviously don't).

For what it's worth, you don't need to send Olynyk or Smart for salary purposes in most deals either. Amir makes enough that he can fit guys like Cousins and Hayward on his own, and Zeller + Jerebko get you even higher.  Now, of course, teams need to be willing to accept only draft picks (including Yab and Zizic) and lesser prospects like Rozier.  So we can even avoid the traditional argument around here about Smart and Olynyk.

But if people dream of adding two stars to this core, and expect ownership to pay a record luxury tax in two seasons, it can be done, but only if trades are made very soon.

Oh I know, but to get value you do have to include some non-draft pick value.  I actually think a trade of core pieces is pretty likely.  In the other Millsap thread, I've been advocating for the trade I have in here pretty hard.  I think that is a good solid trade for Boston and would make Boston the front runner to land Millsap this summer (which is the only way I think Boston actually acquires a top of the line free agent this summer i.e. trades for him now and then re-signs him).  Doing that trade, I would then expect Boston to push hard to acquire someone else that gets the team to contender status and using core pieces to do it.  Maybe something like this three-way trade. 

Boston - Wall, Gortat, Thornton
Denver - Thomas
Washington - Mudiay, Hernangomez, Johnson, Brown

so couple that with
Boston - Millsap, Kelly
Atlanta - Zeller, Jerekbo, Smart, Boston 2018 1st

Now this is what a real contender starts to look like (with 2 open roster spots)

PG - Wall, Rozier, Jackson
SG - Bradley, Green
SF - Crowder, Thornton, Young
PF - Millsap, Olynyk, Mickey, Kelly
C - Horford, Gortat

[Moranis]

Unless somebody can figure out a way to match salary without sending any of Amir, Jerebko, or Zeller the other way, this is just impossible.  We forfeit any chance of adding another star through free agency and Ainge will not do that.

Millsap is at worst the 3rd best free agent available this summer (Griffin and Hayward are really the only 2 guys even in Millsap's league).  If you trade for him, you have a big advantage in obtaining him.  Thus it is a free agent move before free agency.

If we trade for Milsap now we can't add a free agent and our roster is pretty much capped out. 

If we sign Milsap as a free agent, we can still add a second star later by trade.

The sequencing matters.

I don't think you're correct on this.  Millsap will not cost our best trade assets to acquire.  And the expiring contracts we'd need to use to trade for a second star will be gone whether we trade for Millsap or sign him, requiring a core player or two to be sent in the second trade.

If you want two stars and to keep our other core players, the best way to get them is to trade for both THIS season. But having two more stars will be prohibitively expensive, so there's no point.

Already answered this in the last post, but even if you string together two trades, the second one is going to have to be done next season when, say, Kelly Olynyk has a higher salary.  You simply can't match a second salary this season without sending out multiple - not just one - core pieces.

You are wrong.  There is no way that Boston can sign a max free agent this summer and still have the salary necessary to make a trade next year without trading core pieces.  It is much easier to acquire Millsap now and then trade for someone else this season.  Say Millsap is acquired for Zeller, Jerekbo, Smart, and Boston's 2018 1st, that would still leave Johnson, Brown, Olynyk, etc. for a second trade this year.  That is about the only way Boston could acquire two stars without giving up a core piece (unless you think Smart and Olynyk are core pieces - I obviously don't).

If you use the salary of the 2017 pick, Zeller, Brown, and Smart, you could bring back ~$26 million in salary (assuming that we got the 3rd pick, we pay 120% of the scale, and the rookie scale under the new CBA is the same as the current one), which is enough for all but 6 NBA players (and Al Horford, but we already have him).  At that point using guys like Rozier or DJax could get you up to any non-Lebron player.  It's a lot to give up, but not any/much more than in your hypothetical

Zeller can't be on the team if you sign a max free agent this summer.