Bird vs Lebron age 30

[KG Living Legend]

Imagine what 1987 and on would have been like if this guy was in Boston...

 Len Bias was the definition of a Stud.

[DavorCroatiaFan]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

That's a good point

Magic got Worthy for 9 quality years
Bird got Bias for 2 ....... days

Magic left the game because unprotected sex with prostitutes
Bird left the game because he played hurt and dive for every ball

Magic became Lakers alpha dog in 1986/87
Bird became Celtics alpha dog from day one

And 4 Magic teammates from Michigan State would be starters on Indiana State team...

Bird had enough HOF teammates. Not sure the teammates argument works here.

Len Bias should be our answer to James Worthy. We lost in '87 2-4. In the end of the game 4 after Jabbar's missed FT it should be Celtics ball end there would be no Magic's baby hook.

We could gone to LA with 3-2 lead and who knows how would Lakers respond to presure?
And all that without Bias, without injured Walton and Wedman, with Parish on sprained ankle and McHale on broken foot.

And in playoffs we battled Jordan's Bulls, 7 games vs great Bucks team (Moncrief, Cummings, Sikma, Lucas, Pierce, Pressey, Hodges), 7 games vs even greater Pistons team (Thomas, Dumars, Dantley, Rodman, Laimbeer, Johnson, Mahorn and Salley).
Lakers faced Nuggets with old English, Fat Lever and 10 scrubs, Warriors with Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and solid Sonics team with McDaniel, Chambers and Ellis.

Bulls, Bucks and Pistons had combine records 142-104. Nuggets, Warriors and Sonics had combine records 118-128. Two of the tree teams Lakers faced was <50% teams.

If Celtics played in West...they would be in finals every year from 1980 thru 1988. And win at least 5 titles.

[SHAQATTACK]

Larry Bird was way to manly and proud to whine like LeBaby about everything .

[Moranis]

LeBron came into the league at 18, Bird came in at 22. Not really fair to compare them by age, 31 year old LeBron has already played more career games than Larry Legend.

 Not fair to compare? Wait.. What??? It's fair to compare them age 22 till now.

 Bird avg over 10 RPG 6 times and avg 9.8 RPG in another. Maxing out at 11 RPG.

 Lebron avg 8RPG one time. They ironically avg the exact same spg at 1.7 and Bpg at .8 over their career.

 Bird obviously amuch better shooter Ft% and 3p%.

 Birds better. End of story.

pace matters.  Lot more shots in Bird's time (thus more opportunities for points, rebounds, assists, etc.).  Bird was the better rebounder with a career RB% of 14.5, while James is at 10.8, however James is a significantly more proficient passer, Bird 24.7% while James is at 34.9% (and it wasn't a late career slide by Bird as his last 3 seasons were all well above his career average).  How about TS%, Bird above 60% just twice (and above 57% just two other times), James is already above 60% 4 times with 3 other times above 57% (he is currently above 57% which would make 4).  Bird scored 1.26 pps in his career, James is at 1.38 right now.  The numbers are fairly similar in the playoffs as well.

Pace does matter.  So do the changes in rules to favor the offense and to make the game less physical in the current era.

and yet those rule changes haven't led to more points, more shots, etc.  It is definitely a different game, but it is still slower.

EDIT: Compare 85/86 to 12/13 (below are team averages)
FGA - 7268 to 6720
PPG - 110.2 to 98.1 (totals are 9038 to 8041)
FG% - 48.7 to 45.3 (even just 2PT% is 49.5 to 48.3)
RB - 3572 to 3453
AST - 2133 to 1814

So you can say the rules have changed to favor the offense, yet the offense is worse. 

BTW, I chose those two years because the Celtics and Heat had almost identical regular season records, both won the championship, and Bird and James were the league MVP's.

Are you saying that rules haven't been added to help the offense?  For instance, what's your opinion on the no-handchecking rule?

The reason that the overall offense hasn't improved is because talent has become diluted.  Since the 1987 season, the league has added 6 expansion teams.  Imagine if the league had 24 teams now, instead of 30?  The competition would be much tougher.

As for stats:

2016:  105.9 Ortg, .540 TS%, .500 eFG%

1986: 107.2 ORtg, .541 TS%, .493 eFG%

The pace-adjusted stats suggest that the offenses are virtually identical, despite diluting the product.  That's because of rules favoring the offense, making the game less physical and encouraging more free-flowing play and scoring.

The Ortg doesn't work for league wide stats since the Drtg is exactly the same.  Perhaps defense is just actually better, which is why the league had to make rule changes to favor the offense.

Pace 102.1 to 95.7.  The game was a lot faster in Bird's era.  TOV% lower today (14.9 in 86 to 13.3 today).  A lot more foul shots and a lot less 3 pointers in the 80's, which is actually the reverse of one might think with rule changes favoring the offense.  The reason of course is the players are just a heck of a lot better today.  They are bigger, stronger, faster, and thus the league had to change the rules because it was becoming a league where teams were lucky to break 100.  They are also significantly better athletes and shooters, which is why despite not having hand checking, the significant reduction in hard fouls (via flagrants), etc. you don't have the players going to the hole and drawing contact nearly as much.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

That's a good point

Magic got Worthy for 9 quality years
Bird got Bias for 2 ....... days

Magic left the game because unprotected sex with prostitutes
Bird left the game because he played hurt and dive for every ball

Magic became Lakers alpha dog in 1986/87
Bird became Celtics alpha dog from day one

And 4 Magic teammates from Michigan State would be starters on Indiana State team...

Bird had enough HOF teammates. Not sure the teammates argument works here.

Len Bias should be our answer to James Worthy. We lost in '87 2-4. In the end of the game 4 after Jabbar's missed FT it should be Celtics ball end there would be no Magic's baby hook.

We could gone to LA with 3-2 lead and who knows how would Lakers respond to presure?
And all that without Bias, without injured Walton and Wedman, with Parish on sprained ankle and McHale on broken foot.

And in playoffs we battled Jordan's Bulls, 7 games vs great Bucks team (Moncrief, Cummings, Sikma, Lucas, Pierce, Pressey, Hodges), 7 games vs even greater Pistons team (Thomas, Dumars, Dantley, Rodman, Laimbeer, Johnson, Mahorn and Salley).
Lakers faced Nuggets with old English, Fat Lever and 10 scrubs, Warriors with Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and solid Sonics team with McDaniel, Chambers and Ellis.

Bulls, Bucks and Pistons had combine records 142-104. Nuggets, Warriors and Sonics had combine records 118-128. Two of the tree teams Lakers faced was <50% teams.

If Celtics played in West...they would be in finals every year from 1980 thru 1988. And win at least 5 titles.

Absolutely---the Refs just automatically gave the ball to the Lakers---when Mychal Thompson knocked the ball out of bounds--OVER McHale's back....Should have been Celtics ball...NO Magic miracle Hook Shot.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Imagine what 1987 and on would have been like if this guy was in Boston...

 Len Bias was the definition of a Stud.

He was Jordan on Steroids(ended up being Cocaine instead)...Better Shooter...2 inches Taller...at least as athletic.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

That's a good point

Magic got Worthy for 9 quality years
Bird got Bias for 2 ....... days

Magic left the game because unprotected sex with prostitutes
Bird left the game because he played hurt and dive for every ball

Magic became Lakers alpha dog in 1986/87
Bird became Celtics alpha dog from day one

And 4 Magic teammates from Michigan State would be starters on Indiana State team...

Bird had enough HOF teammates. Not sure the teammates argument works here.

Len Bias should be our answer to James Worthy. We lost in '87 2-4. In the end of the game 4 after Jabbar's missed FT it should be Celtics ball end there would be no Magic's baby hook.

We could gone to LA with 3-2 lead and who knows how would Lakers respond to presure?
And all that without Bias, without injured Walton and Wedman, with Parish on sprained ankle and McHale on broken foot.

And in playoffs we battled Jordan's Bulls, 7 games vs great Bucks team (Moncrief, Cummings, Sikma, Lucas, Pierce, Pressey, Hodges), 7 games vs even greater Pistons team (Thomas, Dumars, Dantley, Rodman, Laimbeer, Johnson, Mahorn and Salley).
Lakers faced Nuggets with old English, Fat Lever and 10 scrubs, Warriors with Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and solid Sonics team with McDaniel, Chambers and Ellis.

Bulls, Bucks and Pistons had combine records 142-104. Nuggets, Warriors and Sonics had combine records 118-128. Two of the tree teams Lakers faced was <50% teams.

If Celtics played in West...they would be in finals every year from 1980 thru 1988. And win at least 5 titles.

You're forgetting---we also had to play those East teams SIX TIMES each during the regular season---while the Lakers only had to play them 2 times each--while Beating up on the WEAK West all season.