Bird vs Lebron age 30

[Moranis]

Today's modern star players usage rates are far greater than previous eras

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/usg_pct_career.html

Bird's usage rate ranks 42nd ABA/NBA compared to Lebron's 5th all time.

More of a team first game years back, Jordan's brand of basketball and the massive hype it generated didn't do team ball any favours in my mind.

8 of the top 20 played a number of seasons in the 80's.  Not sure you can really make that claim since a number of the more modern guys haven't yet had their end of career less usage seasons yet. 

Also, not a very surprising stat since the great players today tend to be more spread out since the league is significantly larger.  when you play your whole career with multiple HOFers it is easier to share the ball. 

[Moranis]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

[Roy H.]

LeBron came into the league at 18, Bird came in at 22. Not really fair to compare them by age, 31 year old LeBron has already played more career games than Larry Legend.

 Not fair to compare? Wait.. What??? It's fair to compare them age 22 till now.

 Bird avg over 10 RPG 6 times and avg 9.8 RPG in another. Maxing out at 11 RPG.

 Lebron avg 8RPG one time. They ironically avg the exact same spg at 1.7 and Bpg at .8 over their career.

 Bird obviously amuch better shooter Ft% and 3p%.

 Birds better. End of story.

pace matters.  Lot more shots in Bird's time (thus more opportunities for points, rebounds, assists, etc.).  Bird was the better rebounder with a career RB% of 14.5, while James is at 10.8, however James is a significantly more proficient passer, Bird 24.7% while James is at 34.9% (and it wasn't a late career slide by Bird as his last 3 seasons were all well above his career average).  How about TS%, Bird above 60% just twice (and above 57% just two other times), James is already above 60% 4 times with 3 other times above 57% (he is currently above 57% which would make 4).  Bird scored 1.26 pps in his career, James is at 1.38 right now.  The numbers are fairly similar in the playoffs as well.

Pace does matter.  So do the changes in rules to favor the offense and to make the game less physical in the current era.

and yet those rule changes haven't led to more points, more shots, etc.  It is definitely a different game, but it is still slower.

EDIT: Compare 85/86 to 12/13 (below are team averages)
FGA - 7268 to 6720
PPG - 110.2 to 98.1 (totals are 9038 to 8041)
FG% - 48.7 to 45.3 (even just 2PT% is 49.5 to 48.3)
RB - 3572 to 3453
AST - 2133 to 1814

So you can say the rules have changed to favor the offense, yet the offense is worse. 

BTW, I chose those two years because the Celtics and Heat had almost identical regular season records, both won the championship, and Bird and James were the league MVP's.

Are you saying that rules haven't been added to help the offense?  For instance, what's your opinion on the no-handchecking rule?

The reason that the overall offense hasn't improved is because talent has become diluted.  Since the 1987 season, the league has added 6 expansion teams.  Imagine if the league had 24 teams now, instead of 30?  The competition would be much tougher.

As for stats:

2016:  105.9 Ortg, .540 TS%, .500 eFG%

1986: 107.2 ORtg, .541 TS%, .493 eFG%

The pace-adjusted stats suggest that the offenses are virtually identical, despite diluting the product.  That's because of rules favoring the offense, making the game less physical and encouraging more free-flowing play and scoring.

[Eja117]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

[NorCalJack]

LeBron 's game is more based on athletic ability than skill, though his skills have got better.   I agree, Bird had the better mental game.   When LeBron begins to fail, I am not sure he will have the skills for an adjustment but then the back issues really hurt Bird too.

I agree with LeBron having more athletic ability and Bird with more skill.  I would take skill over athletic ability every time. 

You can make the same argument with Steph Curry.  He is very skilled, just not athletic.  I think that is one reason the older players are critical of his game.  Also why some would say LeBron is better, but I disagree and would give Bird the nod over LeBron any day during his prime.

[mgent]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts Laker fans.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

[Who]

Today's modern star players usage rates are far greater than previous eras

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/usg_pct_career.html

Bird's usage rate ranks 42nd ABA/NBA compared to Lebron's 5th all time.

More of a team first game years back, Jordan's brand of basketball and the massive hype it generated didn't do team ball any favours in my mind.

The "Jordan effect" .... molded everyone's idea of what a star should be.

High usage
High scoring
Lots of one-on-one play
Break offensive sets
Take last shots of shot-clock, end of quarter, down stretch of end of game

[Eja117]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

[Roy H.]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

[Eja117]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

That's a good point

[DavorCroatiaFan]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

That's a good point

Magic got Worthy for 9 quality years
Bird got Bias for 2 ....... days

Magic left the game because unprotected sex with prostitutes
Bird left the game because he played hurt and dive for every ball

Magic became Lakers alpha dog in 1986/87
Bird became Celtics alpha dog from day one

And 4 Magic teammates from Michigan State would be starters on Indiana State team...

[86MaxwellSmart]

In the 85-86 season, the Lakers were relieved they didn't have to face the Celtics in the Finals..I live in LA--and the Fans KNEW it was gonna be a disaster.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Imagine what 1987 and on would have been like if this guy was in Boston...

[Eja117]

Bird has more rings in a more competitive era. It's a pretty easy call

Guess that means Magic is significantly better than Bird then.

It would be very difficult to make an argument that Bird is better than Magic and he is usually ranked lower by the experts.

Magic was great---but he played in the West---Super weak division in the 80s...Of course the Lakers WALTZED to the Finals every year---while The Celtics were battling the 76ers..Pistons...Bucks...Hawks...Bulls....PLUS, they had to play these teams SIX times a year in the regular season---where the Lakers only had to play the Strong East teams Twice a year...So, Larry was easily Magic's equal at the least.

Right, but then when they played head to head it was 2-1 and he beat him in college and when you looked at the end of their careers on the Dream Team Magic was still an excellent player but Larry was hobbled. It's also 5 rings to three. It's not Manning vs Brady but there's a winner here.

It would have been 2-2 if Magic had upheld his end of the 1986 bargain.

That's a good point

Magic got Worthy for 9 quality years
Bird got Bias for 2 ....... days

Magic left the game because unprotected sex with prostitutes
Bird left the game because he played hurt and dive for every ball

Magic became Lakers alpha dog in 1986/87
Bird became Celtics alpha dog from day one

And 4 Magic teammates from Michigan State would be starters on Indiana State team...

Bird had enough HOF teammates. Not sure the teammates argument works here.