Does Anyone Else Notice the Tension Between Crowder and Bradley?

[jpotter33]

To me, the only tension I've really ever viewed on the team is Turner and Smart. Not as much this year but definitely last year, Turner would hardly ever pass the ball to Smart when they were on the court together, even to the point of obviously passing to someone else rather than Smart.

He also recently had some backhanded compliments/comments about Smart after the Hawks loss when Stevens was pondering changing up the rotation. Turner was firmly against any rotation changes, and he seemed to sarcastically mention several times how we'd be soooooo much better with Smart, while also giving him some backhanded compliments about his intangibles.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4721414/while-brad-stevens-leaves-open-possibility-of-changes-evan-turner-pleads-for-patience

[notbillsimmons]

dddrraaammmaaaaaaa

[Ilikesports17]

To me, the only tension I've really ever viewed on the team is Turner and Smart. Not as much this year but definitely last year, Turner would hardly ever pass the ball to Smart when they were on the court together, even to the point of obviously passing to someone else rather than Smart.

He also recently had some backhanded compliments/comments about Smart after the Hawks loss when Stevens was pondering changing up the rotation. Turner was firmly against any rotation changes, and he seemed to sarcastically mention several times how we'd be soooooo much better with Smart, while also giving him some backhanded compliments about his intangibles.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4721414/while-brad-stevens-leaves-open-possibility-of-changes-evan-turner-pleads-for-patience

Turner does seem not to like passing to smart. I think turner knows if smart develops into a player who can capably run an offense with the ball in his hands turners minutes will plummet.

I was kinda surprised no one really mentioned that he basically mocked smarts value to the team.

[jpotter33]

To me, the only tension I've really ever viewed on the team is Turner and Smart. Not as much this year but definitely last year, Turner would hardly ever pass the ball to Smart when they were on the court together, even to the point of obviously passing to someone else rather than Smart.

He also recently had some backhanded compliments/comments about Smart after the Hawks loss when Stevens was pondering changing up the rotation. Turner was firmly against any rotation changes, and he seemed to sarcastically mention several times how we'd be soooooo much better with Smart, while also giving him some backhanded compliments about his intangibles.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4721414/while-brad-stevens-leaves-open-possibility-of-changes-evan-turner-pleads-for-patience

Turner does seem not to like passing to smart. I think turner knows if smart develops into a player who can capably run an offense with the ball in his hands turners minutes will plummet.

I was kinda surprised no one really mentioned that he basically mocked smarts value to the team.

TP. I was definitely wondering this myself. But I figured that I was just reading too much into this if nobody else mentioned it.

What does everyone else think about Turner's comments in that article?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4721414/while-brad-stevens-leaves-open-possibility-of-changes-evan-turner-pleads-for-patience

[alldaboston]

I can't understand why Crowder and Bradley should have any tension. Both are players with limited offensive talent, and whose biggest talent comes on the defensive end.  Both play defense with a passion only KG had. I see no reason why one should be mad with the other.

Turner and Smart, however, I can understand. Specifically with Turner not being on the best of terms with Smart. I say this because Turner is trying to do whatever he can to justify a bigger payday and more security in his NBA future. Having Smart handling the ball and controlling the offense is just about the worst thing for Turner's chances, because as we all know, ET is best with the ball in his hands. And with Smart's occasional boneheaded plays last year (his 3 point chucking was very frustrating), I can see why Evan could be mad. As for his recent comments, though, I'm not as concerned, mainly because he talked about how Smart was a competitor and how he has a ton of respect for him and stuff like that.

[Celtics4ever]

There are a lot of guys that IT will not pass ball.

I can't understand why Crowder and Bradley should have any tension. Both are players with limited offensive talent, and whose biggest talent comes on the defensive end.  Both play defense with a passion only KG had. I see no reason why one should be mad with the other.

Do you really still think Avery has a limited offensive game?     Because I do not I think that this was more the case in the past but his offensive game is respectable this year.

[Sketch5]

There are a lot of guys that IT will not pass ball.

I can't understand why Crowder and Bradley should have any tension. Both are players with limited offensive talent, and whose biggest talent comes on the defensive end.  Both play defense with a passion only KG had. I see no reason why one should be mad with the other.

Do you really still think Avery has a limited offensive game?     Because I do not I think that this was more the case in the past but his offensive game is respectable this year.

More respectable this year, yes, but he's still limited. He's ball handling was so bad a couple years ago, that his average handles look impressive. He's struggled to get shots off against good team the last few games,he even said so. He can only get to the hoop when the lane is completely open and that hasn't been that often.

His jump shot has been great, and can shoot under pressure, but he can't get his shots off with out screens most of the time. I would love to see him get into the paint with a floater, which would open his jump shot more. But he still had no real dribble move to get that off consistently.

I love Bradley, but I still think he's a high quality 3 and D guy off the bench. 

[pearljammer10]

There are a lot of guys that IT will not pass ball.

I can't understand why Crowder and Bradley should have any tension. Both are players with limited offensive talent, and whose biggest talent comes on the defensive end.  Both play defense with a passion only KG had. I see no reason why one should be mad with the other.

Do you really still think Avery has a limited offensive game?     Because I do not I think that this was more the case in the past but his offensive game is respectable this year.

More respectable this year, yes, but he's still limited. He's ball handling was so bad a couple years ago, that his average handles look impressive. He's struggled to get shots off against good team the last few games,he even said so. He can only get to the hoop when the lane is completely open and that hasn't been that often.

His jump shot has been great, and can shoot under pressure, but he can't get his shots off with out screens most of the time. I would love to see him get into the paint with a floater, which would open his jump shot more. But he still had no real dribble move to get that off consistently.

I love Bradley, but I still think he's a high quality 3 and D guy off the bench.

This.

Someone mentioned it earlier too, My biggest problem with AB on offensive is his drastically low BBall IQ. He has improved his jumper and his ball handling over the last couple years. However, his spacing, where he needs to be, his ball movement, his shot selection, and his miserable ability to finish around the rim are all still concerns to me that make him a high quality bench 3 and D guy in my mind.

[DesertDweller]

I can't say I've noticed that but I do notice that Crowder loves playing next to Smart because they share the same intensity on defense.

and AB doesnt?

That's not exactly what I meant. I guess what I meant is that Crowder and Smart share the same physicality on defense. You know what I'm saying?

In no way am I trying to take away from the impact Bradley makes on defense. Just to me, Crowder and Smart bring physicality on defense while Bradley brings quickness. I'm trying to think of the word but I can't.

I hate to confuse and please clarify if I do, but I think of Bradley and Smart/Crowder on defense as sugar and spice. Bradley is the sugar and Crowder/Smart are the spice.

Is the word you're trying to think of to describe Bradley's defense possibly, "finesse"

[DesertDweller]

I'm glad someone else brought up this subject because I had been thinking about it but was afraid the board would just write it off as a mental defect. I get into watching the interaction of different players with each other.
Also Bradley doesn't seem to make any effort to hide or protect the ball when he's going for a layup. it's like he doesn't even realize there's anyone there.

[saltlover]

There are a lot of guys that IT will not pass ball.

I can't understand why Crowder and Bradley should have any tension. Both are players with limited offensive talent, and whose biggest talent comes on the defensive end.  Both play defense with a passion only KG had. I see no reason why one should be mad with the other.

Do you really still think Avery has a limited offensive game?     Because I do not I think that this was more the case in the past but his offensive game is respectable this year.

More respectable this year, yes, but he's still limited. He's ball handling was so bad a couple years ago, that his average handles look impressive. He's struggled to get shots off against good team the last few games,he even said so. He can only get to the hoop when the lane is completely open and that hasn't been that often.

His jump shot has been great, and can shoot under pressure, but he can't get his shots off with out screens most of the time. I would love to see him get into the paint with a floater, which would open his jump shot more. But he still had no real dribble move to get that off consistently.

I love Bradley, but I still think he's a high quality 3 and D guy off the bench.

This.

Someone mentioned it earlier too, My biggest problem with AB on offensive is his drastically low BBall IQ. He has improved his jumper and his ball handling over the last couple years. However, his spacing, where he needs to be, his ball movement, his shot selection, and his miserable ability to finish around the rim are all still concerns to me that make him a high quality bench 3 and D guy in my mind.

AB has made a little over 61% of shots at the rim the last two years.  Compare that with IT's 56%.  It's hardly miserable.  And his shot selection is way better as well.  The two best shots to take for Bradley are at the rim (where again, he makes 61%) and from 3.  Last year, about 52% of his shots came from those areas of the floor.  This year it's 63%.  Accordingly he has a quality eFG% of .536, the best of his career.  Top that off with his best assist rate since the C's were still trying to force him to be a point guard, and it really would seem that you're letting yourself see Bradley of 2-3 years ago rather than the player he is today. 

That's not meant to be insulting, by the way.  It's really hard for humans to notice those things without looking at the numbers.  He's taken 13 shots per game the last few years.  One more of those per game has been from three.  One more every 5 games has been from at the rim.  About once in 8 games he makes a basket at the rim that he would have missed three years ago. You can't pick that up with your eyes.  No one can. But it's real, measurable improvement, which has led to him having his best season by virtually every measure.

[SHAQATTACK]

Never noticed a problem between the two .  Very simular mindset .   Jawing to drive each other to play harder or better ....is NOT a problem ......I see it as a good thing .  People who like each other communicate ......people who don't interact got issues.  So the answer is NO.  .....your reading between the lines.

I do think ET is hesitatant to make a star out of Smart .  Which is not good for Celtics basketball.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Alright, you guys convinced me.

As this debate went on, I was amazed at how willing we are to rip players.

Bradley is a good shooting guard. He can be a starter on a championship team, but he cannot be the primary shot creator. His offensive BBIQ is average. In the half court, he has not learned how to drive to the rim or make pocket passes. He is a good player. If he could figure those areas out, he could be an All-star, but I am really happy with our guy.

Crowder continues to improve his percentages, shooting, and overall impact on the game, and he has only been a Celtic for less than a year. He has really good shooting percentages in the month of December, and I am hopeful that he will stay around that level.

[BDeCosta26]

There are a lot of guys that IT will not pass ball.

I can't understand why Crowder and Bradley should have any tension. Both are players with limited offensive talent, and whose biggest talent comes on the defensive end.  Both play defense with a passion only KG had. I see no reason why one should be mad with the other.

Do you really still think Avery has a limited offensive game?     Because I do not I think that this was more the case in the past but his offensive game is respectable this year.

More respectable this year, yes, but he's still limited. He's ball handling was so bad a couple years ago, that his average handles look impressive. He's struggled to get shots off against good team the last few games,he even said so. He can only get to the hoop when the lane is completely open and that hasn't been that often.

His jump shot has been great, and can shoot under pressure, but he can't get his shots off with out screens most of the time. I would love to see him get into the paint with a floater, which would open his jump shot more. But he still had no real dribble move to get that off consistently.

I love Bradley, but I still think he's a high quality 3 and D guy off the bench.

Eh, I don't think it's fair to call Bradley a bench player. I mean, it all depends on what team he's on, and what the talent base around him is. He could easily start on a contending team with the right roster. Look at OKC. Put Bradley into that line-up next to Westbrook and they suddenly become a legit challenge for GS or the Spurs. He would fit perfectly into that group, for example, and we'd probably come to regret letting him leave because he would look like the key piece that brought it all together for them. Would he start for the Warriors? No, but how many guys are good enough to start over Klay Thompson? Would be a great addition to them too though. I think he'd start on a whole bunch of teams in this league, including some contending ones.

Bradley has improved every single season he's had in the NBA. He's improved every aspect of his game, even taking his poor handles/passing and making them at least average and useable. He's an all-NBA caliber defender and his 3 point shot has improved dramatically. He might be the best shooter on the team now. He may be mostly a 3&D guy, but he's good enough at getting open/making shots that he can become one of your main secondary scorers while providing elite defense. And he's only what, 25? He can still continue to improve, as he has every year. Depending on how the next Celtic contender develops, I can see a world where he starts on it.

[CelticPride2016]

Avery needs to learn how to pass. If he can, he becomes an almost perfect player. He's improved at shooting and dribbling. He's come a long way.

Evan Turner needs to go. He is holding back Marcus Smart. Thanks to everyone who pointed out the article.

Turner needed to be this good coming out of college, not after he's developed a big ego and bad habits.

Smart needs the opportunity to become a pg. This is where I am not necessarily arguing for tanking, but that it is what it is. We need to find out. If Smart can handle pg in Brad's system, then we can be more patient with Bradley's bad passing as long as he is aware of his flaws and working on it.

If Smart is a shooting guard, then we probably want to trade Avery Bradley.

I can't wait until Brad starts benching David Lee. Stevens is better than me in every coaching category than my own awareness that Lee is done, finished, and not a true Celtic.

Turner shouldn't have said what he did. Maybe if Smart was sitting next to him at the time, then fine.

I have isolated the long-term Celtic player problems as Turner, Sully, and Lee.

Everyone else seems to get it, that mysterious phrase called Celtic Pride.

Avery gets it. But if Smart is a shooting guard, do we really need two starters at the same position?

Turner only gets minutes because we have no choice in a non-tanking situation. Rozier is too raw. Smart may or may not be ready, if ever, to take the reins. Tommy pointed out in one game that Avery is bad at passing.

It's little things like this which add up to us still being quite a distance away from being a finished rebuild.

I don't mind problems such as Smart and Bradley possibly being redundant. I do mind mediocre to bad ball hogs such as Turner and Lee. Sully not getting into shape has also given me the confidence to say I also give up on him.

I'm not giving up on anyone else.

I am not saying I watch the games hoping that Turner and Lee hurt the score. They are pros. Same with Sully. But I would say that despite them getting a lot of minutes, not one of them is part of the core. They are trade filler or their contracts run out.