Zach Lowe: Celtics calling around the league to rent out cap space

[celticsclay]

The problem with this is you're operating under the assumption that Boston is the only team willing to accept salary dumps.  Philly is so far under the salary cap and will be during the offseason that they could take on Lee and Barnes without sending out any salary in return.  Golden State has all the reason in the world not to dump any of their rotational players this season.

And the Celtics won't have cap space in the offseason like the Sixers ?

Warriors are a playoff team that can't wait until the offseason, a late 1st this year and a future 1st is nothing since they're about this year and next and not the next 5.

They're a playoff team that can't wait until the offseason?  What in the world are you talking about?  They're not paying luxury taxes this season.  Exactly why can't they wait until the summer?  Especially when it means they don't have to take back any salary since teams will have cap space.

And do you think they can just "dump" Lee on a team under the cap for free in the offseason ? You think it makes a difference in what they give up ?

GSW gave up 2 firsts I believe to dump Biedrins on Utah.

It would likely require the same price. And what do you mean not take back salary ? Are we giving them expirings (Bass, Thornton) or not ? AFAIK they come off the books on June 30. This move adds vets to GSW, 2 for 1 and gets Lee out of the way pre emptively.

Are you just arguing for the sake or arguing or what??

Firstly, Golden State dumped $24+ million in three useless players on Utah.  That's why the price was so steep.  They didn't give up two firsts just to get rid of Biedrins' corpse; they gave up two firsts and three seconds to have Utah tie up over a third of their cap space and three of their 15 roster spots on bad players.

Secondly, did you even bother reading my post at all?  How is using Harrison Barnes as a sweetener trying to "'dump' Lee on a team for free"?

Thirdly, despite what some LeBron trumpeters claimed here over the offseason, chemistry is very much so important.  Golden State is leading the league in record right now.  It's not very likely they make such a huge move when they've got such a good thing going right now.

Finally, you should probably follow the conversation before jumping in.  I was responding to a suggestion that Golden State would have to take a Lee-Wallace swap over the offseason.  There will be teams so far under the cap that Golden State wouldn't need to take back any salary in filler contracts whatsoever; they can just dump Lee and use Barnes and/or whatever few picks they still have left as incentive.  That's what I was talking about when I brought up the fact that Philly can take a Lee salary dump without sending salary back.  This honestly should have been apparent.

I have a hard time buying into the idea that chemistry will keep GS from trading Lee. Ownership should be able to use their success w/o Lee to demonstrate he is expendable. Will some players be disappointed? Yes. Will they get over it? Eventually. This is a business. GS's on court chemistry has been just fine with Lee off the floor. I think ownership should be of the mindset that this will save their team money in the future. Take OKC for instance; they were ready to ruin lockerroom chemistry by trading Perk in a deal to acquire Lopez.

I think GS would be smart to give up a 1st w/ Lee and take on Bass & Thornton. Why wait until the offseason and allow Hinkie to swindle you out of Lee, Barnes & picks when the Celtics could offer you Bass & Thornton's expirings. If the trade is done now you can flip Thornton or Bass, or cut another player to add a vet who agreed to a buyout.

I could see a scenario where GS gives up Lee & Barnes in the offseason, but only if their getting back a quality PF/C that can shoot and start next to Bogut.

TBH, I'd rather do a deal with Denver. I believe they have the most incentive to do a deal. They could trade us Mcgee or Gallo along with the MEM pick they own in exchange for Bass, Thornton, & the rondo TPE. I may even be underestimating the assets we could get back. The trade gives DEN immediate cap space, and a TPE they could use to acquire more assets. They could either use the TPE to acquire a big name or use it to get a pick for allowing another team to dump salary just like I've proposed the Celtics do. For the Celtics; we get a 1st, and the chance to re-trade McGee in the future as an expiring for more assets.

I don't have strong thoughts on any of this but would also point out Lee has probably played in about a dozen games this year

[Eddie20]

I would think this means that Ainge will "rent" our cap space this season, not next, by taking on an expiring, using a TPE, from a team that is paying luxury tax.

Example:

C's
KG
2020 1st rd pick (unprotected)


Nets
Rondo TPE

The savings the Nets would receive would be huge. Plus, we get another 1st rd pick from them, albeit years down the line, for taking on a player that could be a positive influence on our young team for a few months.

[Endless Paradise]

OKC was ready to "ruin locker room chemistry" with the Lopez trade because they're currently on the outside looking in as far as the playoff picture.

You know what OKC did the last three years when they were a top 2 seed (or better) in the West?  Nothing -- they never made any significant moves largely because of chemistry concerns.

[D.o.s.]

OKC was ready to "ruin locker room chemistry" with the Lopez trade because they're currently on the outside looking in as far as the playoff picture.

You know what OKC did the last three years when they were a top 2 seed (or better) in the West?  Nothing -- they never made any significant moves largely because of chemistry concerns.

Pocketbook concerns, on the other hand...

[cletus1985]

I think Brooklyn is going to look to move one of their big 3 over KG, so they can avoid luxury tax this year and next. We can do this to pry a 2020 pick out of them and they'd have to consider as they're not title contenders and they're paying exorbitant amounts of money to be irrelevant.

Bos takes: KG and JJ with a 2020 1st

BKN takes: Wallace, Bass, Turner and TPE from rondo

Cuts about 15 mill this year if they renounce the TPE, and 10 mill next year

[sofutomygaha]

I think Brooklyn is going to look to move one of their big 3 over KG, so they can avoid luxury tax this year and next. We can do this to pry a 2020 pick out of them and they'd have to consider as they're not title contenders and they're paying exorbitant amounts of money to be irrelevant.

Bos takes: KG and JJ with a 2020 1st

BKN takes: Wallace, Bass, Turner and TPE from rondo

Cuts about 15 mill this year if they renounce the TPE, and 10 mill next year

I'd be very surprised if the nets dealt another 1st rounder before they are sold. I'd be very surprised if they did it in any case.

Someone is going to figure out a way to swap some dead money for Lopez or Johnson. That's the Nets' move. If the Celtics manage to faciliate something like that, it's going to bring in 2nd rounders at best... or one of those actual players.

[cletus1985]

I think Brooklyn is going to look to move one of their big 3 over KG, so they can avoid luxury tax this year and next. We can do this to pry a 2020 pick out of them and they'd have to consider as they're not title contenders and they're paying exorbitant amounts of money to be irrelevant.

Bos takes: KG and JJ with a 2020 1st

BKN takes: Wallace, Bass, Turner and TPE from rondo

Cuts about 15 mill this year if they renounce the TPE, and 10 mill next year

I'd be very surprised if the nets dealt another 1st rounder before they are sold. I'd be very surprised if they did it in any case.

Someone is going to figure out a way to swap some dead money for Lopez or Johnson. That's the Nets' move. If the Celtics manage to faciliate something like that, it's going to bring in 2nd rounders at best... or one of those actual players.

I think Lopez is the only player they have that will generate interest without them giving up an actual asset to dump them. While JJ is definitely an above average player still, his contract is too handicapping too take on from contending teams who really want him. That 1st may have to be protected, but I think it's the only way they get out of the luxury tax. The only case I could see them making a deal this year would be to the knicks at the deadline for Amare or Bargs, but Jackson may not be as naive as recent NY GM's to make that deal.

[LooseCannon]

Some people don't want the Celtics to buy out Prince and see him go to LA and lower the value of the Clippers pick.  Wouldn't helping the Nets clear future cap space devalue those future Brooklyn picks?

[saltlover]

Some people don't want the Celtics to buy out Prince and see him go to LA and lower the value of the Clippers pick.  Wouldn't helping the Nets clear future cap space devalue those future Brooklyn picks?

Not necessarily.  The Nets could completrly dump Lopez and still be over the cap next year.  In 2016, everyone will be under by a lot because of the new TV deal, so no advantage for the Nets.  If they have fewer assets because we got something as they move on from Lopez and save $20+ million in luxury tax, I think that will only hurt their future more.

Of course, this is why I don't think a trade will happen.

[heitingas]

The problem with this is you're operating under the assumption that Boston is the only team willing to accept salary dumps.  Philly is so far under the salary cap and will be during the offseason that they could take on Lee and Barnes without sending out any salary in return.  Golden State has all the reason in the world not to dump any of their rotational players this season.

And the Celtics won't have cap space in the offseason like the Sixers ?

Warriors are a playoff team that can't wait until the offseason, a late 1st this year and a future 1st is nothing since they're about this year and next and not the next 5.

They're a playoff team that can't wait until the offseason?  What in the world are you talking about?  They're not paying luxury taxes this season.  Exactly why can't they wait until the summer?  Especially when it means they don't have to take back any salary since teams will have cap space.

And do you think they can just "dump" Lee on a team under the cap for free in the offseason ? You think it makes a difference in what they give up ?

GSW gave up 2 firsts I believe to dump Biedrins on Utah.

It would likely require the same price. And what do you mean not take back salary ? Are we giving them expirings (Bass, Thornton) or not ? AFAIK they come off the books on June 30. This move adds vets to GSW, 2 for 1 and gets Lee out of the way pre emptively.

Are you just arguing for the sake or arguing or what??

Firstly, Golden State dumped $24+ million in three useless players on Utah.  That's why the price was so steep.  They didn't give up two firsts just to get rid of Biedrins' corpse; they gave up two firsts and three seconds to have Utah tie up over a third of their cap space and three of their 15 roster spots on bad players.

Secondly, did you even bother reading my post at all?  How is using Harrison Barnes as a sweetener trying to "'dump' Lee on a team for free"?

Finally, you should probably follow the conversation before jumping in.  I was responding to a suggestion that Golden State would have to take a Lee-Wallace swap over the offseason.  There will be teams so far under the cap that Golden State wouldn't need to take back any salary in filler contracts whatsoever; they can just dump Lee and use Barnes and/or whatever few picks they still have left as incentive.  That's what I was talking about when I brought up the fact that Philly can take a Lee salary dump without sending salary back.  This honestly should have been apparent.

Ok, it makes sense now, and I didnt read your earlier posts, I just assumed it was Thornton/Bass for Lee as it has been talked about for weeks on different boards, Celtics and Warrior boards.. GSW even contemplated taking Bass with their TPE they had before letting it expire.