Zach Lowe: Celtics calling around the league to rent out cap space

[mgent]

Atta boy Danny.  So sick of these late/conditional/protected first round picks, second round picks, rented players, and cap space DA has gone for in all his trades since the Pierce/KG to Brooklyn one.  Get us some ACTUAL assets.

[saltlover]

Atta boy Danny.  So sick of these late/conditional/protected first round picks, second round picks, rented players, and cap space DA has gone for in all his trades since the Pierce/KG to Brooklyn one.  Get us some ACTUAL assets.

No point in actual assets now.  Ainge is looking to make some players and teams very rich with contracts and draft picks this summer.  I'm excited to see what else he does the next month, but the real fun starts in late June or early July.  If nothing else, we'll finally have a data point on the claim that no max free agents ever come to Boston, since max offers will certainly be made.

[heitingas]

To elaborate on why Golden State would do this: I believe they will be looking to unload Lee's salary so they are able to re-sign Draymond Green. Also Klay Thompson has a contract extension that will kick in soon.

I think it would be best if a Ainge finds a contract that fits within the 12.9 mil range we have for the traded player exception (TPE). McGee works, but I have some doubt that Denver would be willing to offer a first rd pick to get rid of him. They are not contending and their 1st rd picks would be too valuable to trade.

Denver does own "the other half" of the Memphis pick, it got some protections and likely will be conveyed by 2017. We own Memphis' pick and could get it as early as 2019. So the MEM pick and McGee would be a great addition.

[CsBanner18]

To elaborate on why Golden State would do this: I believe they will be looking to unload Lee's salary so they are able to re-sign Draymond Green. Also Klay Thompson has a contract extension that will kick in soon.

I think it would be best if a Ainge finds a contract that fits within the 12.9 mil range we have for the traded player exception (TPE). McGee works, but I have some doubt that Denver would be willing to offer a first rd pick to get rid of him. They are not contending and their 1st rd picks would be too valuable to trade.

With that said, maybe Ainge can squeeze out another "conditional 1st rd pick" that turns into 2 seconds. In return the Celtics take on the immediate cap space and send two serviceable role players on expiring contracts to Denver in the process.

Bottom line: any team which possesses a player who has 2 years left on his contract (or 3 yrs w/ the final year being a team option) could offer Boston a conditional 1st rd pick for expiring contracts. The player can't be too talented (i.e Nicholas Batum) unless Ainge is willing to give up assets in the early stages of this rebuild.

So essentially the team trading with the Celtics would be getting expiring contracts & a trade exception up to 12.9 mil. That trade exception could be valuable to a team like GS who might be looking to add another player in the offseason. With the TPE they could add another player w/ a large salary or two players w/ smaller salaries.

These are trades that happen over the summer.  Golden State has the best record in the NBA, and is under the luxury tax.  If they want to move Lee to keep Green, next summer is when that happens, not now.  It will be a cheaper price to move Lee at that point, and it won't disrupt a team in the middle of a playoff run.  There's no reason Golden State dumps Lee in February, unless he tears an ACL or something. Just makes no sense.  Same with all your other proposals-- you move those guys when a better way to spend the money presents itself, and not before.  This is why Gerald Wallace is still a Celtic.

I sort of disagree. Golden State has played most of this year without Lee and has been winning. This shows that Lee isn't as crucial as he once was proclaimed to be to GS's core. There would be little to no incentive for the Celtics to trade for David Lee in the offseason unless it involves us getting picks. Bass & Thornton's contracts would officially be coming off the books so the C's could no longer offer up their contracts. 

If both teams wait until the offseason, the only large contract Boston would have to offer Golden State is Gerald Wallace. Both Wallace & Lee have contracts that will expire in 2016. Golden State would have the most incentive to do this trade since they would be saving approx. 5 mil in the 2015-2016 season.

Why wait until then though? Trade Lee to BOS now. GS was rumored to be interested in using their TPE on Bass, but opted to let it expire instead.

By trading Lee to BOS now GS gets two good role players on expiring contracts who could either be kept or re-traded (in 2 separate 1 for 1 trades only) for another player with an expiring contract and a second rounder (Toronto---Bass for Hayes & a 2nd / or  Thornton for Fields & a 2nd?). Maybe GS replaces Lee w/ Bass and trades Thornton. They could trade for another expiring player and agree to a buyout w/ him due to lack of  available playing time. That would not only save GS money next year, but more money this year as well.

IMO do the trade now or not at all...Wallace could be traded next year the same way I'm proposing we trade Bass & Thornton this year (as an expiring) to get Lee & 2 seconds. Why settle for a trade like Lee for Wallace and second in the offseason when we could make a trade now and get a conditional 1st for Bass & Thornton, and then turn Wallace into another conditional 1st at next year's deadline?

Ainge will be looking to getting more assets so it makes sense for him to trade his expiring players for some before they become Free Agents.

[freshinthehouse]

As long as we take on deals that expires after the 2015-16 season  i'm fine with it, add more picks, develop your youth then attract FA's with 45-50 million in cap space.

While I've generally advocated that strategy too, Danny's done such a bang-up job of keeping the books clear for next summer I no longer support that move, unless the return is really high.  We're getting very close to having the room for two max free agents (if the salary cap rises a lot in advance of the TV deal, as the NBA wants, we might be already there).  Combine that with using Wallace's expiring and some of our many picks, and we could add three stars (or budding stars) next summer.  If the free agents don't materialize, cap space can always be used at that point for Thornton/Zeller type trades.

Are there many feasible big name FAs that Boston could court this summer?  That's not a rhetorical question, I am genuinely curious.  I wish it was clear if Chicago would match a max offer to Jimmy Butler.

[CsBanner18]

To elaborate on why Golden State would do this: I believe they will be looking to unload Lee's salary so they are able to re-sign Draymond Green. Also Klay Thompson has a contract extension that will kick in soon.

I think it would be best if a Ainge finds a contract that fits within the 12.9 mil range we have for the traded player exception (TPE). McGee works, but I have some doubt that Denver would be willing to offer a first rd pick to get rid of him. They are not contending and their 1st rd picks would be too valuable to trade.

Denver does own "the other half" of the Memphis pick, it got some protections and likely will be conveyed by 2017. We own Memphis' pick and could get it as early as 2019. So the MEM pick and McGee would be a great addition.

EXACTLY! TP for elaborating on the complicated pick situation between Denver & MEM that would also benefit our future pick via MEM. Not to mention they C's could absorb McGee with the 12.9 mil TPE. So DEN gets the cap space, a large TPE, and maybe the C's could offer one of the conditional 2nd Rd picks they have that are not likely to be conveyed (maybe the WAS pk we acquired from the Humphries S&T?)

[freshinthehouse]

Expect Ainge to call up at least 3 teams; the Pelicans, Nuggets, & Warriors. Eric Gordon, JaVale McGee, Danillo Gallinari, & David Lee each have 2 years left on their contracts (1 after this year) and could likely be acquired using some of our players on expiring contracts (Bass, Thornton). Golden State might be willing to offer a future 1st (which is bound to be late in the lottery) and Lee for expirings and possibly a 2nd rounder or two. Cs could then flip David Lee for another asset when his contract is set to expire. These are the types of players that have contracts Ainge may be willing to trade for. He will be looking for more compensation in the form of future draft picks.

The Warriors and Pelicans don't interestme much.  The Warriors don't really have anything to offer besides what will likely be really late first rounder (and I know they owe Utah another first, so I am not sure when they could offer another) and NOP could maybe offer us a future first with little protection, but Im not sure if they'd be game for that.  Denver, however, is intriguing, depending on how bad they want to get out from under there bad deals.  If they'd offer us their unprotected 2015 pick if we took McGee and the corpse of Galinari for expirings I'd certainly listen.  This would really be intriguing to me if Thon Maker decides to declare early, which I would assume make him eligible for the 2016 draft.  With a salary cap bloated with Wallace, Danillo, and McGee, we would undoubtedly be looking at another 50-60 loss season, and give us a good shot at scoring a high draft pick in a draft that looks like it could have two premier prospects in it (Thon and Simmons).  Then we attack the 2016 off-season with a core of young, talented players and scads of cap room.  If things fall right we could have one heckuva bright future.

[jpotter33]

Are there any good examples of this happening in the past?

Just want to kind of gauge the possible impact.

IIRC, the Sonics rented their cap space out to the Suns to take on Kurt Thomas, and got two 1st round picks for it.

They then turned around and traded Thomas to the Spurs for another 1st rounder the following season.

Didn't Golden State do this not too long ago with Biedrins, too? If I remember right, it was Utah that took him and another player on for a couple of firsts.

[freshinthehouse]

Are there any good examples of this happening in the past?

Just want to kind of gauge the possible impact.

IIRC, the Sonics rented their cap space out to the Suns to take on Kurt Thomas, and got two 1st round picks for it.

They then turned around and traded Thomas to the Spurs for another 1st rounder the following season.

Didn't Golden State do this not too long ago with Biedrins, too? If I remember right, it was Utah that took him and another player on for a couple of firsts.

The Clippers and Cavs did a trade like this where the Clips gave up their first rounder and Cleveland took on Baron Davis' contract.  That pick ended up turning into Kyrie Irving.

[CsBanner18]

Expect Ainge to call up at least 3 teams; the Pelicans, Nuggets, & Warriors. Eric Gordon, JaVale McGee, Danillo Gallinari, & David Lee each have 2 years left on their contracts (1 after this year) and could likely be acquired using some of our players on expiring contracts (Bass, Thornton). Golden State might be willing to offer a future 1st (which is bound to be late in the lottery) and Lee for expirings and possibly a 2nd rounder or two. Cs could then flip David Lee for another asset when his contract is set to expire. These are the types of players that have contracts Ainge may be willing to trade for. He will be looking for more compensation in the form of future draft picks.

The Warriors and Pelicans don't interestme much.  The Warriors don't really have anything to offer besides what will likely be really late first rounder (and I know they owe Utah another first, so I am not sure when they could offer another) and NOP could maybe offer us a future first with little protection, but Im not sure if they'd be game for that.  Denver, however, is intriguing, depending on how bad they want to get out from under there bad deals.  If they'd offer us their unprotected 2015 pick if we took McGee and the corpse of Galinari for expirings I'd certainly listen.  This would really be intriguing to me if Thon Maker decides to declare early, which I would assume make him eligible for the 2016 draft.  With a salary cap bloated with Wallace, Danillo, and McGee, we would undoubtedly be looking at another 50-60 loss season, and give us a good shot at scoring a high draft pick in a draft that looks like it could have two premier prospects in it (Thon and Simmons).  Then we attack the 2016 off-season with a core of young, talented players and scads of cap room.  If things fall right we could have one heckuva bright future.

You had me until you said we'd get an UNPROTECTED 2015 1st from DEN. Denver knows they're in the loaded West. They will not be dumb enough to give up a potential lottery pick to shed the contracts of McGee & Gallo. Both players only have one year left after this one. That pick would have to be heavily protected. DEN also owns the Grizzlies 2015 1st which has years worth of protections on it (likely not conveyed until 2019), which also affects the 1st rd pick the Celtics just got for Green (likely not conveyed until 2021 and is dependent on the pick Denver got from the MEM-DEN trade).

I'd say Thornton & 2 seconds for McGee & the MEM first that DEN owns.

pick # 1 = Sixers 2015 2nd rd pick &

pick # 2 = a heavily protected 2nd rounder (one that is unlikely to be conveyed)

Why for DEN? They save approx. 2.75 mil this year and are free from McGee's contract next year as well. They get one guaranteed second round pick only because they're giving up the MEM 1st.

Why for BOS? We now have Wallace & McGee's contracts expiring at the same time and we get another 1st for doing the deal. Could easily use these two contracts to acquire player making 20+ mil, or worst case scenario---let them just expire. This would make BOS eligible to go after players in the 2016 FA class.

If Ainge could turn McGee into another pick (1st or 2nd) by the 2016 trade deadline, he essentially will have turned thornton & a 2nd into the MEM 1st and another 1st or 2nd rd pick

[Endless Paradise]

To elaborate on why Golden State would do this: I believe they will be looking to unload Lee's salary so they are able to re-sign Draymond Green. Also Klay Thompson has a contract extension that will kick in soon.

I think it would be best if a Ainge finds a contract that fits within the 12.9 mil range we have for the traded player exception (TPE). McGee works, but I have some doubt that Denver would be willing to offer a first rd pick to get rid of him. They are not contending and their 1st rd picks would be too valuable to trade.

With that said, maybe Ainge can squeeze out another "conditional 1st rd pick" that turns into 2 seconds. In return the Celtics take on the immediate cap space and send two serviceable role players on expiring contracts to Denver in the process.

Bottom line: any team which possesses a player who has 2 years left on his contract (or 3 yrs w/ the final year being a team option) could offer Boston a conditional 1st rd pick for expiring contracts. The player can't be too talented (i.e Nicholas Batum) unless Ainge is willing to give up assets in the early stages of this rebuild.

So essentially the team trading with the Celtics would be getting expiring contracts & a trade exception up to 12.9 mil. That trade exception could be valuable to a team like GS who might be looking to add another player in the offseason. With the TPE they could add another player w/ a large salary or two players w/ smaller salaries.

These are trades that happen over the summer.  Golden State has the best record in the NBA, and is under the luxury tax.  If they want to move Lee to keep Green, next summer is when that happens, not now.  It will be a cheaper price to move Lee at that point, and it won't disrupt a team in the middle of a playoff run.  There's no reason Golden State dumps Lee in February, unless he tears an ACL or something. Just makes no sense.  Same with all your other proposals-- you move those guys when a better way to spend the money presents itself, and not before.  This is why Gerald Wallace is still a Celtic.

I sort of disagree. Golden State has played most of this year without Lee and has been winning. This shows that Lee isn't as crucial as he once was proclaimed to be to GS's core. There would be little to no incentive for the Celtics to trade for David Lee in the offseason unless it involves us getting picks. Bass & Thornton's contracts would officially be coming off the books so the C's could no longer offer up their contracts. 

If both teams wait until the offseason, the only large contract Boston would have to offer Golden State is Gerald Wallace. Both Wallace & Lee have contracts that will expire in 2016. Golden State would have the most incentive to do this trade since they would be saving approx. 5 mil in the 2015-2016 season.

Why wait until then though? Trade Lee to BOS now. GS was rumored to be interested in using their TPE on Bass, but opted to let it expire instead.

By trading Lee to BOS now GS gets two good role players on expiring contracts who could either be kept or re-traded (in 2 separate 1 for 1 trades only) for another player with an expiring contract and a second rounder (Toronto---Bass for Hayes & a 2nd / or  Thornton for Fields & a 2nd?). Maybe GS replaces Lee w/ Bass and trades Thornton. They could trade for another expiring player and agree to a buyout w/ him due to lack of  available playing time. That would not only save GS money next year, but more money this year as well.

IMO do the trade now or not at all...Wallace could be traded next year the same way I'm proposing we trade Bass & Thornton this year (as an expiring) to get Lee & 2 seconds. Why settle for a trade like Lee for Wallace and second in the offseason when we could make a trade now and get a conditional 1st for Bass & Thornton, and then turn Wallace into another conditional 1st at next year's deadline?

Ainge will be looking to getting more assets so it makes sense for him to trade his expiring players for some before they become Free Agents.

The problem with this is you're operating under the assumption that Boston is the only team willing to accept salary dumps.  Philly is so far under the salary cap and will be during the offseason that they could take on Lee and Barnes without sending out any salary in return.  Golden State has all the reason in the world not to dump any of their rotational players this season.

[LooseCannon]

Didn't Golden State do this not too long ago with Biedrins, too? If I remember right, it was Utah that took him and another player on for a couple of firsts.

They did that to clear cap space to sign Iguodala to a big free agent contract.

Don't get your hopes up.  You shouldn't expect a significant pick.  You should expect some mild cash savings and maybe a protected second, if you're lucky, for helping a team cut its luxury tax bill and/or clear a roster spot to sign a potential buy-out candidate.

You're likely to see Ainge trying to replicate deals from last year such as Miami trading Roger Mason Jr. and cash to Sacramento for a protected second-round pick or Brooklyn sending out Tyshawn Tyler and cash for the draft rights to Edin Bavcic.

Take a look at teams that are beyond the first tier of the progressive luxury tax and figure out how much money they could save by being able to swap a $2-3 million expiring contract of a non-rotation player for practically nothing.

[heitingas]

The problem with this is you're operating under the assumption that Boston is the only team willing to accept salary dumps.  Philly is so far under the salary cap and will be during the offseason that they could take on Lee and Barnes without sending out any salary in return.  Golden State has all the reason in the world not to dump any of their rotational players this season.

And the Celtics won't have cap space in the offseason like the Sixers ?

Warriors are a playoff team that can't wait until the offseason, a late 1st this year and a future 1st is nothing since they're about this year and next and not the next 5.

[heitingas]

27   Oklahoma City Thunder   LT   $-1,593,492

28   New York Knicks   LT   $-3,292,916

29   Cleveland Cavaliers LT   $-5,064,356

30   Brooklyn Nets   LT $-13,720,51

4 teams above are LT payers, BKN only team in danger of being repeater offenders, so if they can't move one of  their big 3, expect them to try HARD to move KG and a smaller contract. Especially since they put their team up for sale.

So if Hinkie doesn't sell his cap for free, expect Ainge to fleece King once again.

We have Rondos and Rivers trade exceptions to absorb KG and a filler. I want a pick swap in 2019 and a 2020 unprotected 1st.

[fairweatherfan]

27   Oklahoma City Thunder   LT   $-1,593,492

28   New York Knicks   LT   $-3,292,916

29   Cleveland Cavaliers LT   $-5,064,356

30   Brooklyn Nets   LT $-13,720,51

4 teams above are LT payers, BKN only team in danger of being repeater offenders, so if they can't move their big 3, expect them to try HARD to move KG and a smaller contract. Especially since they put their team up for sale.

So if Hinkie doesn't sell his cap for free, expect Ainge to fleece King once again.


We have Rondos and Rivers trade exceptions to absorb KG and a filler. I want a pick swap in 2019 and a 2020 unprotected 1st.

Oh man, if we manage to get Brooklyn to pay us to take back the contract KG signed WITH US...that would be pretty incredible.  Doubly so if we managed to cut their payroll enough to make it worth their while to take back the contract Wallace signed with them.