Why trading Rondo is not easy

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I think Ainge would trade Rondo, but finding a partner may be impossible. Any team trading for him has to meet these 4 criteria:

1. Rondo would elevate that team to the next level, likely a title contender.
2. The team has expendable assets that satisfy the Celts, and still leave the team with enough talent to contend.
3. Free agent to be Rondo must at least show some interest in re-signing with that team.
4. Salaries would leave both teams at an acceptable tax level.

After many trips through the trade machine, I don't see a team that meets all 4. I don't think Rondo does that much for the Rockets after they give up what it would take to swing the deal.

What do others think?

Very good points, though we might also add that it nees to be a team needs a point guard. since there are many teams with credible pgs now, that narrows the field as well.

Dispite the thoughts of many in cb, trading rondo for a great return is not easy to do.

agreed

[Eddie20]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners.

Woah...bold statement.

(No specific order)
Paul
Rose
Wall
Lowry
Irving
Carter-Williams (rookie contract...potential)
Parker
Westbrook
Lillard
Curry
Dragic (talented, young, and only gets paid 7.5M)
Burke (see Carter-Williams)

So for one reason or another, be it better talent, better fit, or cheaper contract at a near similar production, it's not that easy to swing a Rondo deal.

Then there's a host of other teams out there that would rather just hang onto their marginally worse PG than pay a hefty price to bring in Rondo.  Like Rondo is probably better than Mike Conley, but the Grizz probably wouldn't bother trading for Rondo when they already have Conley.

I'd agree with that. Probably Lawson too. I would also say these players are probably a better fit in Stevens' system.

[celticmania]

Id trade him for the Pistons pick (Marcus Smart)

[jambr380]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners.

Woah...bold statement.

(No specific order)
Paul
Rose
Wall
Lowry
Irving
Carter-Williams (rookie contract...potential)
Parker
Westbrook
Lillard
Curry
Dragic (talented, young, and only gets paid 7.5M)
Burke (see Carter-Williams)

So for one reason or another, be it better talent, better fit, or cheaper contract at a near similar production, it's not that easy to swing a Rondo deal.

Then there's a host of other teams out there that would rather just hang onto their marginally worse PG than pay a hefty price to bring in Rondo.  Like Rondo is probably better than Mike Conley, but the Grizz probably wouldn't bother trading for Rondo when they already have Conley.

I'd agree with that. Probably Lawson too. I would also say these players are probably a better fit in Stevens' system.

I will stand by my statement. Paul, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker are the only definites (and I am not sure about Parker with his age). I suppose you could throw Wall and Irving in there, but no way on any of the others.

As Nick said earlier, there are teams like OKC who would absolutely jump at the opportunity to have Rondo in addition to their star guard in their back court. As far as PG goes, I have no doubt that about 25 teams would rather have Rondo running the point (not necessarily replacing their starting PG) - at least.

And, LarBrd, I absolutely agree with you in what you are saying. I didn't say that there were 25 solid trade partners out there. I was just stating that if money/contracts were no issue, most any team would be pretty ecstatic to have Rondo as their PG. I would say there are really only 3-4 realistic trade partners, given Danny's valuation of Rondo and other teams' ability to take on his [next] big contract.

[BballTim]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners. The value we get back is the real concern. One team who is perfectly content with their current PG is OKC - if they had not advanced, a deal with them may have made some sense.

It's less than 25.  Rondo is a hard guy to trade. We've been open to trading him for a while, but so far we haven't had any offers that were appealing.  If it's true that the Kings were offering their pick + McLemore, that would be intriguing... but apparently Rondo didn't want to re-sign there.  Tough guy to move.  He'll prob be here until free agency.

  The last time Danny looked to trade Rondo was for CP. He's said so many times.

[Eddie20]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners. The value we get back is the real concern. One team who is perfectly content with their current PG is OKC - if they had not advanced, a deal with them may have made some sense.

It's less than 25.  Rondo is a hard guy to trade. We've been open to trading him for a while, but so far we haven't had any offers that were appealing.  If it's true that the Kings were offering their pick + McLemore, that would be intriguing... but apparently Rondo didn't want to re-sign there.  Tough guy to move.  He'll prob be here until free agency.

  The last time Danny looked to trade Rondo was for CP. He's said so many times.

So the Curry and Westbrook trade offers, both rejected by the other team, is forgotten out of convenience?

The thing is, whether you like it or not, the Rondo of today simply doesn't the value of the Rondo a couple of years ago. A younger Rondo, not coming off of knee surgery, and locked up with a very reasonable contract is a far cry, in terms of trade value, from the Rondo of today. And let's not even talk about his on-court production. Why do you think any reference point you use in order to argue on his behalf usually has a date of 2012 or older?

ESPN's Chris Broussard dug up yet another interesting Celtics tidbit for us this evening, one that casts last season's Kendrick Perkins-for-Jeff Green trade in an entirely new light.

After last season's playoffs, the Celtics offered Rajon Rondo and Green to Oklahoma City for Russell Westbrook and Perkins, sources told Broussard. The Celtics, looking for another scorer who can create his own offense, thought Westbrook might be available after his erratic postseason play. But Oklahoma was not interested in the deal.

In December, the Celtics had discussions with Golden State about a Stephen Curry-for-Rondo deal, and one source says it was Golden State that decided against pulling the trigger. But Curry's recent ankle injuries, which have caused him several problems in his short career, have given the Celtics pause.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Broussard...

And it's not like Rondo's injured this year or anything. Of course we should use his stats this year because they're completely reflective of his abilities. How dare BballTim take this season with a grain of salt.

[Eddie20]

Broussard...

And it's not like Rondo's injured this year or anything. Of course we should use his stats this year because they're completely reflective of his abilities. How dare BballTim take this season with a grain of salt.

BballTimNBA@yahoo...(or is it ESPN)?


You're completely right. How could I have overlooked his performance the year prior, when he led us to one of the best records in the league and the wheels fell off the moment he was lost for the season? It was such a painful time, we went into a total tailspin, our players were horrible and lost without him, and our record showed how much his loss truly meant.

It's not as things don't change rapidly either. I mean the Pacers' fans must be clamoring about how good Hibbert is. After all, he has made the all-star game a couple of years and completely destroyed Miami less than 12 months ago.

[pokeKingCurtis]

You keep going back to our record with Rondo, versus our record without Rondo.

For one it's obviously far from being the only variable.

The team was underachieving, you could argue they were due to improve. Jeff Green really hit his stride in 12/13. Pierce and KG kind of found their rhythm later in the season.

Players step up. Teams become more cohesive. It happens.

Heck, the Nets this year, led by none other than Pierce and KG, had a better record in the second half (incidentally, Brook Lopez went down mid-season as well).

13/14 Ainge dealt 2 players who were major contributors to a very young team that's lacking talent. Injuries also hit us right about then. I don't believe Stevens was able to field the same starting lineup more than 2 games in a row. The team was crumbling before Rondo's return.

Also, it's obviously not simple addition/subtraction. Sully went down round about when Rondo went down. But I wouldn't conclude that Sully is a net negative player solely based on our record with/without him.

And you seriously don't see anything wrong with judging Rondo's play in 13/14, in a season where he's jumping in midway, recovering and not able to play back to backs?

----

And comparing Rondo to Hibbert?

Hibbert's fallen off a cliff. No other way to describe it.

Rondo's looking like he's going to make a full recovery and going back to 2012 Rondo, possibly with a jumper.

[Bear.Vodka.Balalaika]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners.

Woah...bold statement.

(No specific order)
Paul
Rose
Wall
Lowry
Irving
Carter-Williams (rookie contract...potential)
Parker
Westbrook
Lillard
Curry
Dragic (talented, young, and only gets paid 7.5M)
Burke (see Carter-Williams)

So for one reason or another, be it better talent, better fit, or cheaper contract at a near similar production, it's not that easy to swing a Rondo deal.

Then there's a host of other teams out there that would rather just hang onto their marginally worse PG than pay a hefty price to bring in Rondo.  Like Rondo is probably better than Mike Conley, but the Grizz probably wouldn't bother trading for Rondo when they already have Conley.

I'd agree with that. Probably Lawson too. I would also say these players are probably a better fit in Stevens' system.

So there's around 15 teams that have better PG's than Rondo and a "host of other teams that would rather just hang onto their marginally worse PG than pay a hefty price to bring in Rondo".

Now, my question is: If nobody wants/needs Rondo, which team, that's both ready to contend (because Rondo in his prime only cares about winning) and has enough cap space, will throw MAX contract at him? Cuz that's what you guys afraid of? Or maybe you just dislike Rondo in general and want him gone?

[cb8883]

The following are better values than Rondo right now.
Paul
Curry
Rose
MCW
Lillard
Lawson
Burke
Dragic
Bledsoe
Lowry
Irving
Parker
Wall
Westbrook
Conley

Then you have a few guys such as Isaiah or Chalmers that you would consider for various reasons. But Rondo is really not that valuable. He's certainly more valuable than D-Will but whoever pays Rondo will have a similar cap killing contract on the books. I like Rondo. He is far from a star player though. He's an excellent role player on a contender. His salary right now is fine for his true value. The issue is that people see what happened with Williams when you give a borderline star PG a ton of money and Rondo is that type of player. Sure he had a great series, legendary even vs the Sixers but didn't Mike Bibby have one like that before too? Celtics fans need to stop pointing back to that one series. The truth is Rondo is smart and has a good BBIQ but he is nothing without a few all stars around him and teams see that.

[Celtics18]

The following are better values than Rondo right now.
Paul
Curry
Rose
MCW
Lillard
Lawson
Burke
Dragic
Bledsoe
Lowry
Irving
Parker
Wall
Westbrook
Conley

Then you have a few guys such as Isaiah or Chalmers that you would consider for various reasons. But Rondo is really not that valuable. He's certainly more valuable than D-Will but whoever pays Rondo will have a similar cap killing contract on the books. I like Rondo. He is far from a star player though. He's an excellent role player on a contender. His salary right now is fine for his true value. The issue is that people see what happened with Williams when you give a borderline star PG a ton of money and Rondo is that type of player. Sure he had a great series, legendary even vs the Sixers but didn't Mike Bibby have one like that before too? Celtics fans need to stop pointing back to that one series. The truth is Rondo is smart and has a good BBIQ but he is nothing without a few all stars around him and teams see that.

You feel that Rondo's 2012 series vs. the Sixers was his best series?  Sure, he was good in that series, but I wouldn't put it in the top four playoff series of his career.

[D.o.s.]

I would probably put Rondo & Deron Williams at about the same talent level right now -- based on what I saw of post knee-injury Rondo and D-Will's continued inability to play as well as he has in the past.

But no one's offering Rondo $100 million, not only does the CBA not work that way, but the Nets only gave it to Williams to keep him from bolting to Dallas.


Also, FWIW -- Rondo for Steph Curry was a way for Ainge to trade for Chris Paul, if I recall correctly.