Why trading Rondo is not easy

[CoachBo]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners. The value we get back is the real concern. One team who is perfectly content with their current PG is OKC - if they had not advanced, a deal with them may have made some sense.

It's hard to find very many teams for whom Rondo would be a significant upgrade that actually have assets to give us.  That's kind of the problem.

Sometimes, no a lot of the time, its not about how much better Rondo is than the player that another team has but the style of play that Rondo brings and the intangibles he has that others do not.

There are currently a ton of shoot first PGs in this league, or at least a whole lot more than there was 15-30 years ago. Rondo is more of a pass first floor general type that makes other players more efficient on offense. So teams with shoot first PGs might want him if they feel their PG is hindering the team.

Then there's the intangibles. During the playoffs, simply put, Rondo is a superduperstar in this league. There's only a handful of guys in this league that can say they can be the best player on the floor in a playoff series and then back it up. Rondo is one of those guys. He is as tough as they come, has a winning mentality and tenaciousness bred from years of tutelage under KG and can take over a game and dominate it without even having to score.

So are there a bunch of teams with a player playing PG that can statistically give you 80% of what Rondo can? Yup. But sometimes that 20% makes a huge huge difference at the most crucial time of games and playoff series.

WADR, Nick, you're getting carried away here.

There is evaluation with the heart, and then there is evaluation with the head.

Pierce, Garnett and Allen had a lot to do with the success of the Celtics in the playoffs.

And again, what evidence of the above exists post-injury? Answer: none.

Personally, I expect Rondo to be here next year - because no one in the league views him in the above prism - and then walk, because all the assumptions that he loves Boston are wishful Rondo fan thinking.

He isn't going to bring anything this summer, I suspect.

[jambr380]

Then there's the intangibles. During the playoffs, simply put, Rondo is a superduperstar in this league. There's only a handful of guys in this league that can say they can be the best player on the floor in a playoff series and then back it up. Rondo is one of those guys. He is as tough as they come, has a winning mentality and tenaciousness bred from years of tutelage under KG and can take over a game and dominate it without even having to score.

So are there a bunch of teams with a player playing PG that can statistically give you 80% of what Rondo can? Yup. But sometimes that 20% makes a huge huge difference at the most crucial time of games and playoff series.

I agree with this (I said as much above).  Still, that limits you to teams that are already playoff caliber. 

Would Memphis swap Conley for Rondo?  I'm pretty sure they would.  So would Charlotte.

Toronto might, or they might not -- I think they're pretty dependent on shooting from the PG position as constructed. 

Dallas would love to have Rondo.  Houston would, too.  Atlanta would exchange Teague for Rondo, as good as Teague has been.

I'm not sure if Denver would prefer Lawson or not.  I think Lawson probably fits the style that team is built for better than Rondo would.

Minnesota clearly would be a lot better with Rondo.  Indiana would look far better with a real distributor running the offense.


It's really hard to think of any compelling trade packages with the teams I just mentioned, though.

That's just the point. I think the vast majority of teams would be happier (if only slightly, in some cases) with Rondo as their pg. I understand that some teams are set up to need more scoring production from that position, but that also presents a possible two pg backcourt (like Nick mentioned, Westbrook and Rondo would be ridiculous. I am also a humongous fan of Bledsoe and Dragic). As you point out, however, the trade packages are underwhelming and that is why we most likely won't go for the full rebuild. I just don't see Danny feeling like he is getting the lesser end of a trade.

[PhoSita]

Personally, I expect Rondo to be here next year - because no one in the league views him in the above prism - and then walk, because all the assumptions that he loves Boston are wishful Rondo fan thinking.

He isn't going to bring anything this summer, I suspect.

I doubt that the optimistic / glass half-full view of Rondo's abilities is limited strictly to Celtics fans.  I imagine there are at least a few GMs out there that really like his game.

If Ainge thinks, as you and I do, that Rondo is likely to leave in free agency next summer, I think he'll seriously consider offers that would seem a little underwhelming without that impending free agency as context. 

[BleedGreen1989]

Sacramento and LAL are the two teams to watch for Rondo draft day deals.

[guava_wrench]

Too many teams have a player that can contribute ~80% of what Rondo can to their squad -- and many of those teams have that player for less money. It makes more sense, then (for those teams), to go after other pieces than upgrading the point guard spot when chasing a title.

If you're the Houston Rockets, do you try to trade for Rondo when you already have Beverly, Lin, and Harden? Or do you try to chase Kevin Love, who would be an absolute monster on that team as the best floor-spacing PF?

That last 20% is always the import part because it means you get more skill on the floor at any moment. Rondo would be less expensive to obtain than Love.

[D.o.s.]

Too many teams have a player that can contribute ~80% of what Rondo can to their squad -- and many of those teams have that player for less money. It makes more sense, then (for those teams), to go after other pieces than upgrading the point guard spot when chasing a title.

If you're the Houston Rockets, do you try to trade for Rondo when you already have Beverly, Lin, and Harden? Or do you try to chase Kevin Love, who would be an absolute monster on that team as the best floor-spacing PF?

That last 20% is always the import part because it means you get more skill on the floor at any moment. Rondo would be less expensive to obtain than Love.

Sure, but look at Houston's roster -- they'd have much more to gain by slotting in Love at the 4 than Rondo at the point. They'd have to give up more to get him, but (in theory) they'd get more back.

Sacramento and LAL are the two teams to watch for Rondo draft day deals.

I don't know if it goes beyond Simmons doing some cursory research, but I think Grantland ran a piece (maybe his) saying that Rondo-to-Sac had been scuttled on account of Rondo not wanting to stay there beyond his contract.

[BleedGreen1989]

Too many teams have a player that can contribute ~80% of what Rondo can to their squad -- and many of those teams have that player for less money. It makes more sense, then (for those teams), to go after other pieces than upgrading the point guard spot when chasing a title.

If you're the Houston Rockets, do you try to trade for Rondo when you already have Beverly, Lin, and Harden? Or do you try to chase Kevin Love, who would be an absolute monster on that team as the best floor-spacing PF?

That last 20% is always the import part because it means you get more skill on the floor at any moment. Rondo would be less expensive to obtain than Love.

Sure, but look at Houston's roster -- they'd have much more to gain by slotting in Love at the 4 than Rondo at the point. They'd have to give up more to get him, but (in theory) they'd get more back.

Sacramento and LAL are the two teams to watch for Rondo draft day deals.

I don't know if it goes beyond Simmons doing some cursory research, but I think Grantland ran a piece (maybe his) saying that Rondo-to-Sac had been scuttled on account of Rondo not wanting to stay there beyond his contract.

Yeah, I'm not sure the truth on that but it wouldn't surprise me.

SAC would have to be taking a leap they could convince Rondo to stay around Gay, Cousins, and a max contract.

[nickagneta]

And again, what evidence of the above exists post-injury? Answer: none.

Personally, I expect Rondo to be here next year - because no one in the league views him in the above prism - and then walk, because all the assumptions that he loves Boston are wishful Rondo fan thinking.

For a guy calling for evidence as to whether Rondo can return to himself post injury it seems a bit duplicitous to state unequivocally that there is no one in the league that views Rondo in the manner I laid out.

I mean, if you want to look at this under your paradigm, then, where's the proof?


And once again, I will say that the whole head/heart thing, besides being just a tad bit condescending, cuts both ways. People who in their heart do not like Rondo or his game can generally make opinions with their heart as well.

[csfansince60s]

Lakers for Nash and their 1st really makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Throw in a signed and traded Jodie Meeks and/or Xavier Henry, and you'd have my interest.

[Moranis]

Lakers for Nash and their 1st really makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Throw in a signed and traded Jodie Meeks and/or Xavier Henry, and you'd have my interest.

can't do that and still have control over who is drafted.

[HomerSapien]

For the past couple of days I've been playing around with 3 and 4 team Rondo trades involving various combinations of Bos, OKC, and NYK, and/or Detroit to try and net the C's Reggie Jackson (who would be my preferred young PG replacement) and a pick by sending a good C and defensive wing to OKC, but I haven't come up with anything plausible that I could see happening.   

The LAL and Sac draft day deals definitely seem the most possible to me, but the options for any trade partners does appear limited. 

I think he is most likely a Celtic for all of next season (I think the return at the trade deadline will be very meager at which point we'll just hope he doesn't walk for nothing).

[LarBrd33]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners. The value we get back is the real concern. One team who is perfectly content with their current PG is OKC - if they had not advanced, a deal with them may have made some sense.

It's less than 25.  Rondo is a hard guy to trade. We've been open to trading him for a while, but so far we haven't had any offers that were appealing.  If it's true that the Kings were offering their pick + McLemore, that would be intriguing... but apparently Rondo didn't want to re-sign there.  Tough guy to move.  He'll prob be here until free agency.

[Eddie20]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners.

Woah...bold statement.

(No specific order)
Paul
Rose
Wall
Lowry
Irving
Carter-Williams (rookie contract...potential)
Parker
Westbrook
Lillard
Curry
Dragic (talented, young, and only gets paid 7.5M)
Burke (see Carter-Williams)

So for one reason or another, be it better talent, better fit, or cheaper contract at a near similar production, it's not that easy to swing a Rondo deal.

[oldutican]

I believe Rondo wants to stay in Boston. He clearly likes the city, but just as important I see him as a supremely confident guy who believes he can bring the Celts back to contention.

[LarBrd33]

I believe there are probably about 25 teams out there who would rather have Rondo as their PG. Because of that, there are a number of potential trade partners.

Woah...bold statement.

(No specific order)
Paul
Rose
Wall
Lowry
Irving
Carter-Williams (rookie contract...potential)
Parker
Westbrook
Lillard
Curry
Dragic (talented, young, and only gets paid 7.5M)
Burke (see Carter-Williams)

So for one reason or another, be it better talent, better fit, or cheaper contract at a near similar production, it's not that easy to swing a Rondo deal.

Then there's a host of other teams out there that would rather just hang onto their marginally worse PG than pay a hefty price to bring in Rondo.  Like Rondo is probably better than Mike Conley, but the Grizz probably wouldn't bother trading for Rondo when they already have Conley.