Author Topic: Rondo shooting threes??  (Read 4814 times)

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Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2014, 10:36:42 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Coming back from such serious injury, I get the feeling that on occasion he is going to take the safe shot rather than barrel into the lane.

He has also had an awful lot of time to work on his jumper and it is good that he is making a concerted effort to add it to his game.

Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2014, 10:36:48 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Read a breakdown on his shooting by Kirk Goldsberry and it had a nice analysis showing him to be above 50% at the elbows (which is fantastic).  Now if he could just pick a spot or two and hit threes from there he would be very dangerous.

Yes, but that also doesn't take into account how open he is during those shots, which is obviously by design. If other PG's had the space and were dared to shoot as often as Rondo is, then there percentages would be through the roof.

He is making the shot at a great percentage.  Some teams sag off Rondo and go under screens... and that is what it is.  Like any smart PG with a jumper, he makes them pay.

He shoots at an elite percentage from midrange.  It is what it is (a good thing). 

Other teams know he shoots those jumpers now.  If they start playing up more they open up the pass.  I don't get why you are trying to slight him, it doesn't make sense.  He is just taking the best play available and doing it at an elite level.

It's not a slight, it's being honest. Do you honestly (key word) think Rondo is an "elite" mid-range shooter? Because that's sort of what you're suggesting.

He is shooting more than 50 percent.  That is elite.

I don't care what argument you are making... it is irrelevant.  When Rondo is on the court, he makes more than 50% of his midrange shots.

Quote
Rondo was actually one of the best elbow shooters in the league last season. Out of 141 NBA players who attempted at least 100 shots from the elbows, Rondo ranked fourth in field goal percentage in that zone — trailing only Jason Smith, Steve Nash, and Jose Calderon. Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who can’t shoot. Per Synergy Sports, he also earned a “very good” rating for shots off the dribble, and an “excellent” rating for long 2-point jumpers.


Now am I saying he is a better shooter than Curry?  No.  But I don't care and it's totally irrelevant.  If you leave Rondo open, he can make the shot at an elite percentage.  And if you don't, he probably has a passing lane.  It just makes him a more complete offensive player.

Let me know when the scouting report is to not let Rondo shoot or go under screens because he'll simply kill you from mid-range.

Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2014, 10:36:58 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Read a breakdown on his shooting by Kirk Goldsberry and it had a nice analysis showing him to be above 50% at the elbows (which is fantastic).  Now if he could just pick a spot or two and hit threes from there he would be very dangerous.

Yes, but that also doesn't take into account how open he is during those shots, which is obviously by design. If other PG's had the space and were dared to shoot as often as Rondo is, then there percentages would be through the roof.

You've been watching too much Steph Curry.

All Rondo needs is a knockdown jumper when he's open. Doesn't need to nail shots with 5 guys draped over him.

Along with his ability to finish at the rim and pass, he'd be deadly.

Let's not overlook the 5-14 shooting, the 6 turnovers, and the crucial one he had in the last minute to KG.

Nobody said he played a great game. Just that his shooting looks better.

Missing layups he would normally make if he weren't recovering, not knowing the team that well, this game being a reunion game...all contribute to his faults today.

It's not just about Curry, it's about every PG who has a respectable shot. You give anyone that space and their percentages will go up. It's only logical.

I realize that he's still recovering, and he'll have better English on his layups, but his biggest adjustment is that he's a pass first pg, with a suspect shot, playing on a team that lacks shooters and scorers.

But they sag off because he is such a good passer.  And if he gets an open shot, he now shoots it at an elite percentage (which is a good use of any possession).

He is shooting as good of a percentage as anyone shoots from that spot on the floor.  There isn't really anything else to ask of him in that regard.  I just don't get your point.  Rondo is punishing teams for playing him so much as a passer about as well as he can (aside from hitting threes, the point of this thread).


Read a breakdown on his shooting by Kirk Goldsberry and it had a nice analysis showing him to be above 50% at the elbows (which is fantastic).  Now if he could just pick a spot or two and hit threes from there he would be very dangerous.

Yes, but that also doesn't take into account how open he is during those shots, which is obviously by design. If other PG's had the space and were dared to shoot as often as Rondo is, then there percentages would be through the roof.

He is making the shot at a great percentage.  Some teams sag off Rondo and go under screens... and that is what it is.  Like any smart PG with a jumper, he makes them pay.

He shoots at an elite percentage from midrange.  It is what it is (a good thing). 

Other teams know he shoots those jumpers now.  If they start playing up more they open up the pass.  I don't get why you are trying to slight him, it doesn't make sense.  He is just taking the best play available and doing it at an elite level.

It's not a slight, it's being honest. Do you honestly (key word) think Rondo is an "elite" mid-range shooter? Because that's sort of what you're suggesting.

He is shooting more than 50 percent.  That is elite.

I don't care what argument you are making... it is irrelevant.  When Rondo is on the court, he makes more than 50% of his midrange shots.

Quote
Rondo was actually one of the best elbow shooters in the league last season. Out of 141 NBA players who attempted at least 100 shots from the elbows, Rondo ranked fourth in field goal percentage in that zone — trailing only Jason Smith, Steve Nash, and Jose Calderon. Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who can’t shoot. Per Synergy Sports, he also earned a “very good” rating for shots off the dribble, and an “excellent” rating for long 2-point jumpers.


Now am I saying he is a better shooter than Curry?  No.  But I don't care and it's totally irrelevant.  If you leave Rondo open, he can make the shot at an elite percentage.  And if you don't, he probably has a passing lane.  It just makes him a more complete offensive player.

Let me know when the scouting report is to not let Rondo shoot or go under screens because he'll simply kill you from mid-range.

That just won't happen because Rondo is the best passer in the league.  You play his passing first but now Rondo is equipped to punish the other team's choice again, as well as you can and making the shot a good use of a possession.

It becomes a pick your poison situation.  Which is what happens with a player like Paul for example.  And teams mix it up and have their methods, but mostly you just don't have an answer.

People still go under screens for LeBron.  And he has become a good enough shooter to make them pay, as well.  But you won't see teams now fight over picks for LeBron either. 

And LeBron will take a lot of those shots because he is a smart player and has worked on his game.  Rondo is doing the same.
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Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2014, 10:45:56 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Read a breakdown on his shooting by Kirk Goldsberry and it had a nice analysis showing him to be above 50% at the elbows (which is fantastic).  Now if he could just pick a spot or two and hit threes from there he would be very dangerous.

Yes, but that also doesn't take into account how open he is during those shots, which is obviously by design. If other PG's had the space and were dared to shoot as often as Rondo is, then there percentages would be through the roof.

You've been watching too much Steph Curry.

All Rondo needs is a knockdown jumper when he's open. Doesn't need to nail shots with 5 guys draped over him.

Along with his ability to finish at the rim and pass, he'd be deadly.

Let's not overlook the 5-14 shooting, the 6 turnovers, and the crucial one he had in the last minute to KG.

Nobody said he played a great game. Just that his shooting looks better.

Missing layups he would normally make if he weren't recovering, not knowing the team that well, this game being a reunion game...all contribute to his faults today.

It's not just about Curry, it's about every PG who has a respectable shot. You give anyone that space and their percentages will go up. It's only logical.

I realize that he's still recovering, and he'll have better English on his layups, but his biggest adjustment is that he's a pass first pg, with a suspect shot, playing on a team that lacks shooters and scorers.

But they sag off because he is such a good passer.  And if he gets an open shot, he now shoots it at an elite percentage (which is a good use of any possession).

He is shooting as good of a percentage as anyone shoots from that spot on the floor.  There isn't really anything else to ask of him in that regard.  I just don't get your point.  Rondo is punishing teams for playing him so much as a passer about as well as he can (aside from hitting threes, the point of this thread).


Read a breakdown on his shooting by Kirk Goldsberry and it had a nice analysis showing him to be above 50% at the elbows (which is fantastic).  Now if he could just pick a spot or two and hit threes from there he would be very dangerous.

Yes, but that also doesn't take into account how open he is during those shots, which is obviously by design. If other PG's had the space and were dared to shoot as often as Rondo is, then there percentages would be through the roof.

He is making the shot at a great percentage.  Some teams sag off Rondo and go under screens... and that is what it is.  Like any smart PG with a jumper, he makes them pay.

He shoots at an elite percentage from midrange.  It is what it is (a good thing). 

Other teams know he shoots those jumpers now.  If they start playing up more they open up the pass.  I don't get why you are trying to slight him, it doesn't make sense.  He is just taking the best play available and doing it at an elite level.

It's not a slight, it's being honest. Do you honestly (key word) think Rondo is an "elite" mid-range shooter? Because that's sort of what you're suggesting.

He is shooting more than 50 percent.  That is elite.

I don't care what argument you are making... it is irrelevant.  When Rondo is on the court, he makes more than 50% of his midrange shots.

Quote
Rondo was actually one of the best elbow shooters in the league last season. Out of 141 NBA players who attempted at least 100 shots from the elbows, Rondo ranked fourth in field goal percentage in that zone — trailing only Jason Smith, Steve Nash, and Jose Calderon. Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who can’t shoot. Per Synergy Sports, he also earned a “very good” rating for shots off the dribble, and an “excellent” rating for long 2-point jumpers.


Now am I saying he is a better shooter than Curry?  No.  But I don't care and it's totally irrelevant.  If you leave Rondo open, he can make the shot at an elite percentage.  And if you don't, he probably has a passing lane.  It just makes him a more complete offensive player.

Let me know when the scouting report is to not let Rondo shoot or go under screens because he'll simply kill you from mid-range.

That just won't happen because Rondo is the best passer in the league.  You play his passing first but now Rondo is equipped to punish the other team's choice again, as well as you can and making the shot a good use of a possession.

It becomes a pick your poison situation.  Which is what happens with a player like Paul for example.  And teams mix it up and have their methods, but mostly you just don't have an answer.

People still go under screens for LeBron.  And he has become a good enough shooter to make them pay, as well.  But you won't see teams now fight over picks for LeBron either. 

And LeBron will take a lot of those shots because he is a smart player and has worked on his game.  Rondo is doing the same.

You think that teams play off him because they're scared of his passing? C'mon, we're all C's fans here, but let's stay objective. You play off him because his shot is shaky. And let's not even talk about his FT% ....

Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2014, 10:48:43 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Rondo's such an elite passer that he has to shoot at a higher percentage than other PGs have to in order to discourage defenses from playing off of him and trying to deny passing lanes.
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Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2014, 10:51:49 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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You think that teams play off him because they're scared of his passing? C'mon, we're all C's fans here, but let's stay objective. You play off him because his shot is shaky. And let's not even talk about his FT% ....

That's exactly why you go under picks: to crowd the paint and take away passing lanes over pursuing the ball handler.  Yes, it is part of why teams play off Rondo.

It's not as if, even when Rondo couldn't shoot, he was stupid and would just take any shot because he was open.  He still found his teammates.  He isn't a dumb player.

Teams would like him to take that shot before, for sure.  But he didn't anyways.  The plan was always to pack the paint and not let Rondo get easy passes.  We saw it with Kobe all through two Finals.

Again, LeBron has been played the same way for a lot of the same reasons.  He is a great passer and quick enough to blow bye you, so you sag off, go under screens, and try to pack the paint to make his drives or passes difficult.
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Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2014, 10:58:02 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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It's three-fold.  Teams play off Rondo; A). because they don't respect his jump shot (certainly not as much as they respect other parts of his game), B). because they are afraid of his passing ability, and C.) because he is great at getting in the lane off the dribble.  B and C are kind of inter-related.

Trapping (a healthy) Rajon Rondo off the high pick is a very risky proposition.  He started to look better tonight, but down the stretch, the Nets actually trapped him a bit and forced turnovers.  They didn't trap him up high because all of a sudden they were deathly afraid of his outside shot, but much more likely because they knew that he doesn't have his rhythm back and they had a shot at forcing him to make mistakes.  Which he did. 


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Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2014, 10:58:08 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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You think that teams play off him because they're scared of his passing? C'mon, we're all C's fans here, but let's stay objective. You play off him because his shot is shaky. And let's not even talk about his FT% ....

That's exactly why you go under picks: to crowd the paint and take away passing lanes over pursuing the ball handler.  Yes, it is part of why teams play off Rondo.

That's not exactly true. You can also make the case that going over the pick and/or doubling him off the picks would force the ball out of his hands and allow someone else to be the playmaker.

I'll put it to you this way...we lack shooters and scorers now, so if you're theory is true we should start seeing Rondo being defended very differently since his passes will be going to inferior options.

Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2014, 11:01:40 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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It's three-fold.  Teams play off Rondo; A). because they don't respect his jump shot (certainly not as much as they respect other parts of his game), B). because they are afraid of his passing ability, and C.) because he is great at getting in the lane off the dribble.  B and C are kind of inter-related.


Well put.  It's not cut and dry.  But it's like that way for other plays too, like I say LeBron.  And hats off to both guys for working on their jumpers.  They will probably both keep getting defended that way but they are coming up with a strong answer.
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Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2014, 01:31:16 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I've watched a couple games since Rondo has been back. this has been the first I watched in full. but what has stood out to me is it seems like Rondo is taking alot more 3-point shots.

now, he didnt shoot well 2-6 tonight. But do you think this is a conscious effort by Rondo/Stevens to add something to his game?

because if you want to compare him to another PG who wasnt a great shooter in Jason Kidd..it was adding that 3-point shot that elevated his game
2-6 is fine. Completely respectable single game shooting.

Re: Rondo shooting threes??
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2014, 01:32:21 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Rondo should work on whatever he want to work on this year. It is a year where guys are free to develop their games on the court because we are playing for the future. He can play more conservatively when it matters again.