off season cap question

[arctic 3.0]

So we'll be way under the cap this summer. with the lack of high impact free agents available I've been thinking about the possibility of using our cap space to trade for a player with out matching salary. (much like how utah acquired al jefferson).
is this still allowed under the new cba?
if so who may be available?
looking at players on teams trying to get under the cap, or players who were signed to deals and aren't working out on their respective teams.
I'm drawing a blank, but if there are any impact players who fit the bill it may be a way for us to acquire talent that is not available via free agency.
any ideas?
 

[Who]

Al Jefferson

[Who]

Lamar Odom -- better than buying him out, create the cap space to sign Deron Williams

Joe Johnson -- I don't think he's available at this moment in time but if one or two things change in Atlanta, I could see him becoming available pretty quickly. Likely need a front office or ownership change.

Ben Gordon

Houston Rockets -- trying to make a major FA signing. They could part with one of their better players in order to facilitate that deal.

Monta Ellis -- next summer will probably come too soon for the Bucks but they'll be putting him back on the market at some point.

Gerald Wallace -- should Deron leave, New Jersey may choose to go with a long term rebuilding process instead of forcing win-now moves.

Emeka Okafor

Amare Stoudemire -- very unlikely but I can't entirely rule it out either. New York could free up enough cap space to make a run at Deron Williams.

Nene -- not next summer but possibly further down the road.

Al Jefferson - as mentioned previously (above post). Doesn't appear to be in their long term plans. Trade him for a pick and free up playing time for Kanter and Favors.

[LooseCannon]

The most obvious players are those who will be free agents in 2013 that teams are not interested in keeping.  Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson are possible candidates, with Millsap being both the better and cheaper player.  Josh Smith wants out of Atlanta, so the Hawks should be doubtful about their ability to keep him and may want to trade him if they can get decent value in return.

[snively]

Lamar Odom -- better than buying him out, create the cap space to sign Deron Williams

Joe Johnson -- I don't think he's available at this moment in time but if one or two things change in Atlanta, I could see him becoming available pretty quickly. Likely need a front office or ownership change.

Ben Gordon

Houston Rockets -- trying to make a major FA signing. They could part with one of their better players in order to facilitate that deal.

Monta Ellis -- next summer will probably come too soon for the Bucks but they'll be putting him back on the market at some point.

Gerald Wallace -- should Deron leave, New Jersey may choose to go with a long term rebuilding process instead of forcing win-now moves.

Emeka Okafor

Amare Stoudemire -- very unlikely but I can't entirely rule it out either. New York could free up enough cap space to make a run at Deron Williams.

Nene -- not next summer but possibly further down the road.

Al Jefferson - as mentioned previously (above post). Doesn't appear to be in their long term plans. Trade him for a pick and free up playing time for Kanter and Favors.

Lamar Odom's my favorite option off that list.  A one-year deal, preserving cap flexibility.  Only set to make $8.2 mil, so we'd have the room to retain KG, Ray, Jeff Green and grab another big man.  Likely to be dirt cheap as well (don't think Dallas could get more than a 2nd rounder in return).

Big Al is tempting, too, but he makes so much money. Only $10 mil left over (plus the $2.5 mil bumper) to retain our own free agents/add anyone else.  Also more costly to acquire.

Josh Smith might be available for a TE + picks.  That would give Atlanta the flexibility to replace him with a similarly compensated player midseason.

[arctic 3.0]

The way folks responded to the idea of bringing big al back at the deadline I'm surprised that his name was mentioned multiple times in this thread. That being said, after watching josh smith chuck up three pointers against us and in doing so helping us win that big game, I'd rather try for Jefferson. He would really help us on the boards and in the low post, and he'll be a free agent after next season when the fa crop is a lot deeper.

[the_Bird]

I'd take a gamble on Al Jefferson for a year before overpaying for the mediocre crop of free agents who are available this summer.  I'm curious how a Big Al/KG combination might work, if KG wanted to come back for a season and we had the $$ to re-sign him.  Thinking that KG would help cover up some of Big Al's defensive flaws, and that we'd have a much nicer balance between inside scoring and KG's mid-range game. 

[arctic 3.0]

Lamar Odom -- better than buying him out, create the cap space to sign Deron Williams

Joe Johnson -- I don't think he's available at this moment in time but if one or two things change in Atlanta, I could see him becoming available pretty quickly. Likely need a front office or ownership change.

Ben Gordon

Houston Rockets -- trying to make a major FA signing. They could part with one of their better players in order to facilitate that deal.

Monta Ellis -- next summer will probably come too soon for the Bucks but they'll be putting him back on the market at some point.

Gerald Wallace -- should Deron leave, New Jersey may choose to go with a long term rebuilding process instead of forcing win-now moves.

Emeka Okafor

Amare Stoudemire -- very unlikely but I can't entirely rule it out either. New York could free up enough cap space to make a run at Deron Williams.

Nene -- not next summer but possibly further down the road.

Al Jefferson - as mentioned previously (above post). Doesn't appear to be in their long term plans. Trade him for a pick and free up playing time for Kanter and Favors.

Lamar Odom's my favorite option off that list.  A one-year deal, preserving cap flexibility.  Only set to make $8.2 mil, so we'd have the room to retain KG, Ray, Jeff Green and grab another big man.  Likely to be dirt cheap as well (don't think Dallas could get more than a 2nd rounder in return).

Big Al is tempting, too, but he makes so much money. Only $10 mil left over (plus the $2.5 mil bumper) to retain our own free agents/add anyone else.  Also more costly to acquire.

Josh Smith might be available for a TE + picks.  That would give Atlanta the flexibility to replace him with a similarly compensated player midseason.

Re: Jefferson's $. Imo we bring back kg, Wilcox and green or pietrus. Let ray walk and replace him with Bradley and draft pick. That would put us over the cap but hopefully most signings are one year deals. Keeping file ability for 2013 free agents.

[snively]

The way folks responded to the idea of bringing big al back at the deadline I'm surprised that his name was mentioned multiple times in this thread. That being said, after watching josh smith chuck up three pointers against us and in doing so helping us win that big game, I'd rather try for Jefferson. He would really help us on the boards and in the low post, and he'll be a free agent after next season when the fa crop is a lot deeper.

The thing with Big Al is, I'm only interested in acquiring him if KG (and hopefully Ray) comes back for another go.  He's only desirable if he can play the Shaq role as the 5th wheel in a well-oiled machine: a scoring/rebounding role player.  Not interested in acquiring him for a rebuilding team.  And unfortunately, his contract is so big, that it will be hard to acquire him without giving up on adding more veteran pieces to the squad.

[Marcus13]

OJ Mayo ; as he has been for about a year and a half.  So weird nobody has bit on this guy yet, but I'd be ecstatic to land him or Rudy Gay

[paintitgreen]

I see a lot of midtier, mostly overpaid players. Johnson is good but I want nothing to do with that contract even if you get him for free (he gets $21.5 mil at age 33, $23 mil at 34 and $25 mil at 35; right now, at 31, he's barely an All Star in the East). Amare's contract is toxic and uninsurable. Ben Gordon is a 6 foot tall bench scorer paid like a core starter for two more years. I'd want at least two first round picks to take any of those guys. Odom is an inconsistent, aging headcase who needs to be in LA or Miami, as he has said. I'd much rather keep KG than bring in Odom. And to use cap space for outside players - via trade or free agency - you have to renounce your Bird rights to at least some players.

Nene is pretty good right now, but seems to be regressing and is getting $13 mil a year for four more seasons after this one, when he's 30, 31, 32 and 33. And I don't think he'd come free - the Wizards just gave up McGee to get him. I like Wallace enough but he plays the same position as Pierce and Jeff Green and New Jersey just inexplicably gave up a top 10 pick to get him.

I like OJ Mayo, too, if you can get him fairly cheap. But he's a restricted free agent, which means your probably have to overpay him on a long term deal to steal him. I don't want to risk overpaying a guy who doesn't even start and being stuck with that for 4 years. And you're giving up your Bird rights on your own players to do that.
 
Jefferson is intriguing, but it depends on the price. He has an offensive post game the Celtics could use, and I think Garnett would help his defense tremendously. Totally agree, though, with snively, that if you go for Jefferson, it's to team with the older guys on our roster as the new addition to stay in contention. (He's well above 2010-11 Shaq in ability, though, and would be much more than a fifth wheel.)

That's why what cuts at me is that they would've been much better off pushing for a move like this at the deadline. Financially, they could have tried Jermaine, Wilcox, Dooling, Johnson, Daniels, Moore and a first rounder (lesser of ours and Clippers) for Al Jefferson ($14 mil this year, $15 mil next) and Earl Watson ($2 mil this year and next). Then you get a 27 year old center who can rebound and give you a post scoring option for this year's playoff run (something that gives you a different dimension for other teams to have to prepare for), and his defense could improve a lot playing with KG. Al replaces Bass in the starting lineup, improving that group, and your bench gets a big boost when Bass is added and a small boost from Watson replacing Dooling.  

Or, as another option, Emeka Okafor. He's owed $13.5 and $14.5 mil the next two years, about $4-6 mil a year more than he's worth. That's the type of contract you get assets to take instead of giving assets to acquire. Jermaine, Wilcox, Dooling, Daniels, Johnson and Moore for Okafor, Greivis Vasquez and Minnesota's first rounder, and you push for Xavier Henry. You might not have had to include Johnson, but I have no problem throwing him in there since he's not in the rotation and if at age 22 he can't get into a short rotation on an aging, borderline playoff team in a compressed schedule season, he's not a special player and it's worth using him to upgrade to Al. Celtics grab a pick likely to be in the 10-14 range (Jeremy Lamb may become a possibility), a big who defends and rebounds and an actual ballhandler off the bench (I think Vasquez would benefit from playing with Bradley since Bradley can defend point guards, Vasquez's biggest problem).

Keep in mind, to use their cap space this summer on one of these guys, the Celtics are gonna have to renounce rights to at least some of their free agents. Then your team is basically Pierce, Rondo, whoever you acquire, minimum contract players and picks. So you don't want to give away draft picks to get them now. Honestly, I'd rather keep what they have on cheaper contracts and have Garnett and Allen mentor the next generation. Garnett makes bigs better at defense period. Allen's work ethic and healthy habits may rub off on younger guys (particularly if the Celtics can get in position to grab Lamb).

Had they done one of those trades in season, though, their cap space would be drastically cut - by $14.5-15 mil trading for Jefferson and Watson (add $17 mil, subtract $2-2.5 mil for Johnson and the first rounder) and by $15.5-16 mil by trading for Okafor ($13.5 for Emeka, $2-2.5 mil for Minnesota's first rounder, Johnson and Vasquez cancel each other out). So they would only have about $10-11.5 mil in cap space this summer, and if it was Okafor, they would hurt their cap space in 2013. But there are no marquee free agents coming to Boston this summer anyway, and if a great opportunity arises in the summer of 2013, they can always amnesty Okafor. Plus, instead of using the $10-12 mil on outside free agents, they can just resign their own players - Green, Garnett, Allen, maybe Bass (depending on what they draft). Suddenly they're rolling out a starting five in the playoffs and probably next year of Rondo, Ray, Pierce, KG and Jefferson/Okafor, with a bench of Watson/Vasquez, Bradley, Pietrus, Bass and Stiemsma/Hollins. Next year you replace Pietrus with Green (or sign and trade Green and try to keep Pietrus with the midlevel exception). And you add either three first rounders if it's the Okafor trade (my realistic hope if you had say 12, 17 and 23 - Lamb, Royce White and Arnett Moultrie) or only one if it's the Jefferson trade (White or Moultrie) and a second rounder.

You have a strong starting core, a much deeper bench, and lot of young players (at the start of next year, Rondo and Green will be 26, Bass 27, Bradley 21, your draft picks 19-22; Okafor will be 30, Vasquez 25, Jefferson 27). Boston can stay below the luxury line with proper planning, has young assets and enough big contracts expiring in the next year or two to make a trade if it comes up.

Now, though, I just don't see the point of giving up cap space, a pick, AND the right to bring back at least a couple of their own free agents to go after a guy like Jefferson. Better off signing short term deals, keeping your picks, trying to develop young guys, and waiting till 2013, maybe you sneak in and grab a 28 year old Jefferson as a free agent.

[the_Bird]

^^^ Good post, but a small quibble; you can't amnesty Okafor.  You can only amnesty guys who were on your roster at the time the CBA was signed.

[paintitgreen]

^^^ Good post, but a small quibble; you can't amnesty Okafor.  You can only amnesty guys who were on your roster at the time the CBA was signed.

My bad. My understanding was that you can amnesty any contract that was in effect when the CBA was signed, as long as you haven't used your amnesty yet.

[LooseCannon]

That's why what cuts at me is that they would've been much better off pushing for a move like this at the deadline. Financially, they could have tried Jermaine, Wilcox, Dooling, Johnson, Daniels, Moore and a first rounder (lesser of ours and Clippers) for Al Jefferson ($14 mil this year, $15 mil next) and Earl Watson ($2 mil this year and next).

This is a completely impossible trade to made mid-season because the Jazz would have to have four open roster spots (they can waive players before the trade, if necessary, to create those spots) to do a trade like that.

Mushing several players into one big ball of crap for salary-matching purposes doesn't work.

[paintitgreen]

That's why what cuts at me is that they would've been much better off pushing for a move like this at the deadline. Financially, they could have tried Jermaine, Wilcox, Dooling, Johnson, Daniels, Moore and a first rounder (lesser of ours and Clippers) for Al Jefferson ($14 mil this year, $15 mil next) and Earl Watson ($2 mil this year and next).

This is a completely impossible trade to made mid-season because the Jazz would have to have four open roster spots (they can waive players before the trade, if necessary, to create those spots) to do a trade like that.

Mushing several players into one big ball of crap for salary-matching purposes doesn't work.

The Jazz had two open roster spots. Financially, either Moore or Daniels could be taken out of the trade. Now we're down to one space. Not all the players had to go to Utah; Dooling, Daniels or even Wilcox, for example, could have been given to another team with roster and cap space or an exception, possibly with their remaining salary for the season - Cleveland, Sacramento, Indiana for example. Let's say Utah takes on Jermaine, Wilcox, Johnson and Moore filling the spots of Jefferson, Watson and their two empty spots. Indiana or Cleveland jumps in and takes Dooling for the rest of the year, if it's Indiana you may not have to pay the salary.

If that package would have gotten the trade done, it could and would have been done under the rules.