Challenging the Green-Tinted view of Rondo

[BballTim]

i beg to disagree, i love rondo but his pace is really favoring the opponents for them to set up..are you all saying that everytime they are together, him and ray, all the set plays are geared towards ray?

  Any time you see Rondo dribbling in place while Ray's running from one side of the court to the other it should be fairly obvious that what's going on is the Celts are seeing if Ray can get free for the shot. Ray's making almost half of his threes this year so it's a very good scoring play when it works.

[Smokeeye123]

He fit perfectly for the team...The team, or the big three, just doesn't fit with Rondo anymore. They come slower out of picks and are slower to their spots as well as slower running up the court.

If Ainge can get younger bodies, Rondo's value will really shine through.

[BballTim]

As for trading for a PG that meshes better, I agree, that is not the solution...unless the PG is a better player.  If you can trade Rondo for a real superstar PG who fits better (like Williams, if he resigned), then of course it makes sense, because then you have a superstar to build around. 

  It was a real treat last night watching how a true superstar like Williams can carry a team on his back. I can see why all of Rondo's detractors crave the kind of consistency that you get with a franchise player like that.

[PosImpos]

i beg to disagree, i love rondo but his pace is really favoring the opponents for them to set up..are you all saying that everytime they are together, him and ray, all the set plays are geared towards ray?

  Any time you see Rondo dribbling in place while Ray's running from one side of the court to the other it should be fairly obvious that what's going on is the Celts are seeing if Ray can get free for the shot. Ray's making almost half of his threes this year so it's a very good scoring play when it works.

the flip side, of course, is everybody and their mother knows what's going on when the Celtics run that play.

[CoachBo]

So every time Rondo stops the basketball in the half-court - which is often - he's running the Ray play?

 

That's hilarious.

[BballTim]

i beg to disagree, i love rondo but his pace is really favoring the opponents for them to set up..are you all saying that everytime they are together, him and ray, all the set plays are geared towards ray?

  Any time you see Rondo dribbling in place while Ray's running from one side of the court to the other it should be fairly obvious that what's going on is the Celts are seeing if Ray can get free for the shot. Ray's making almost half of his threes this year so it's a very good scoring play when it works.

the flip side, of course, is everybody and their mother knows what's going on when the Celtics run that play.

  That's not the issue, everyone knew what was going on when we ran it for the entire big three era. Part of the problem is Ray slowing down, part of it is his defender rarely gets caught in picks chasing Ray through our bigs. I don't know that it's worth running on a regular basis, I was pointing out that Rondo wasn't just dribbling for the sake of dribbling.

[2short]

As for trading for a PG that meshes better, I agree, that is not the solution...unless the PG is a better player.  If you can trade Rondo for a real superstar PG who fits better (like Williams, if he resigned), then of course it makes sense, because then you have a superstar to build around. 

  It was a real treat last night watching how a true superstar like Williams can carry a team on his back. I can see why all of Rondo's detractors crave the kind of consistency that you get with a franchise player like that.

[BballTim]

So every time Rondo stops the basketball in the half-court - which is often - he's running the Ray play?

 

That's hilarious.

  It would probably be even funnier if anyone actually said that.

[PosImpos]

i beg to disagree, i love rondo but his pace is really favoring the opponents for them to set up..are you all saying that everytime they are together, him and ray, all the set plays are geared towards ray?

  Any time you see Rondo dribbling in place while Ray's running from one side of the court to the other it should be fairly obvious that what's going on is the Celts are seeing if Ray can get free for the shot. Ray's making almost half of his threes this year so it's a very good scoring play when it works.

the flip side, of course, is everybody and their mother knows what's going on when the Celtics run that play.

  That's not the issue, everyone knew what was going on when we ran it for the entire big three era. Part of the problem is Ray slowing down, part of it is his defender rarely gets caught in picks chasing Ray through our bigs. I don't know that it's worth running on a regular basis, I was pointing out that Rondo wasn't just dribbling for the sake of dribbling.

Yeah, I understand the point you're making, and it's a fair one.

I think that it's reasonable to point out, though, that maybe Rondo has outgrown the "stand at the top of the key and wait for Pierce or Ray to get open off a screen" offense.  He's a shot creator; he's at his best when he's unleashed to find guys open by moving with the ball.  That style doesn't fit the plodding half-court set offense that the Big 3 favor, though.

[PosImpos]

As for trading for a PG that meshes better, I agree, that is not the solution...unless the PG is a better player.  If you can trade Rondo for a real superstar PG who fits better (like Williams, if he resigned), then of course it makes sense, because then you have a superstar to build around.

  It was a real treat last night watching how a true superstar like Williams can carry a team on his back. I can see why all of Rondo's detractors crave the kind of consistency that you get with a franchise player like that.

I think people are more often thinking of the way that Chris Paul or Derrick Rose have carried their teams.

[BballTim]

As for trading for a PG that meshes better, I agree, that is not the solution...unless the PG is a better player.  If you can trade Rondo for a real superstar PG who fits better (like Williams, if he resigned), then of course it makes sense, because then you have a superstar to build around.

  It was a real treat last night watching how a true superstar like Williams can carry a team on his back. I can see why all of Rondo's detractors crave the kind of consistency that you get with a franchise player like that.

I think people are more often thinking of the way that Chris Paul or Derrick Rose have carried their teams.

  Tons of posts have referred to Deron as a superstar or franchise player. And it's worth pointing out that Rose's teams have been outscoring their opponents by significant margins with him on the bench for the last few years. They don't need a ton of carrying. And weren't we just discussing how CP3's been somewhat inconsistent this year?

[BballTim]

I think that it's reasonable to point out, though, that maybe Rondo has outgrown the "stand at the top of the key and wait for Pierce or Ray to get open off a screen" offense.  He's a shot creator; he's at his best when he's unleashed to find guys open by moving with the ball.  That style doesn't fit the plodding half-court set offense that the Big 3 favor, though.

  I agree, and I think that has a lot to do with Rondo's "inconsistency" and "passive play". Look at the Bucks game (if you saw it). Rondo's attacking the rim in the first half, and when they come back from the second half and force-fed the ball to PP on each of the first 4-5 possessions of the second half. (from the game log, PP was 0-6 with 2 TOs in the first three minutes of the second half, although he had 2 putbacks. Still, he got the ball and came up empty on 6 of our first 7 possessions).

  Rondo gets killed here when that happens, but I have a hard time believing that he decided on his own that they should get the ball to PP whether he was open or not every time down the court. Especially considering Ray was getting PP the ball as well. Part of it's Doc's game plan, although I'm sure some of it must be the dynamic of Rondo doing what he's always done and the big three expecting him to.

[PosImpos]

I think that it's reasonable to point out, though, that maybe Rondo has outgrown the "stand at the top of the key and wait for Pierce or Ray to get open off a screen" offense.  He's a shot creator; he's at his best when he's unleashed to find guys open by moving with the ball.  That style doesn't fit the plodding half-court set offense that the Big 3 favor, though.

  I agree, and I think that has a lot to do with Rondo's "inconsistency" and "passive play". Look at the Bucks game (if you saw it). Rondo's attacking the rim in the first half, and when they come back from the second half and force-fed the ball to PP on each of the first 4-5 possessions of the second half. (from the game log, PP was 0-6 with 2 TOs in the first three minutes of the second half, although he had 2 putbacks. Still, he got the ball and came up empty on 6 of our first 7 possessions).

  Rondo gets killed here when that happens, but I have a hard time believing that he decided on his own that they should get the ball to PP whether he was open or not every time down the court. Especially considering Ray was getting PP the ball as well. Part of it's Doc's game plan, although I'm sure some of it must be the dynamic of Rondo doing what he's always done and the big three expecting him to.

At this point, I'm of the opinion that it makes the most sense to keep Rondo at least for next year and see how he looks when he's surrounded by players that fit his strengths better and when he's not inhibited by the presence of the Big 3 (doesn't feel the need to defer).  Right now, the C's aren't going to get a good value for Rondo in a trade.

I'm not convinced he wouldn't still be infuriatingly inconsistent if his teammates and the style of the team fit his strengths better, but I'd be really interested to find out.