Why would the Hornets want Rondo?

[dtrader]

I'm seeing a lot of debate here.

We are all unanimously in agreement that Chris Paul is a better point guard and player than Rondo, right? I just want to make sure.

The disagreement is just over how much better and whether the cost is worth it. Right?

Is there anyone here who actually believes that Rondo is a better player/point guard than CP3?

  Let everybody know how CP3's knee will be going forward, and then it's an easy answer. We're all in agreement that CP3 played last year at a level well below his best years, right?

Let us know how Rondos shoulder is too. If his shoulder is not 100% then letting him go now will be a whole lot easier.  CP3 had a down regular season, but looked 100% in the playoffs.  Who knows how well Rondo healed.

  When did Rondo hurt his shoulder? Do you mean Perk?

lol.  No.  I just remembered it was a dislocation, and I'm dealing with one of my own shoulder right now, so my mind naturally tied "dislocation" to "shoulder" when it should have been "elbow".

  Ok, do you have any evidence that Rondo suffered permanent damage to his elbow? This isn't just people here idly claiming that CP3 might have permanent knee issues, there have been quite a few articles about it.

I dont have any more definitive proof that Rondo suffered permanent functional damage, than anyone has for CP3s knee.  However, considering the history of injury releases from the celtics the past few years (KG, JO, Shaq, etc) I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility to say that Rondos injury could have been more serious than it was explained to be.  I've read multiple articles about CPs knee...most were glorified idle claims about what "sometimes" "can" happen with meniscus tears and related surgeries.  I have yet to see an article that has said that CP has had lingering effects from the injury, that the surgery wasn't successful, or that his entire meniscus was removed.

I read that they weren't able to sew his meniscus back together, but I know that usually that isnt even attempted in the first place, as patients usually respond well to having the torn pieces removed.  This avoids the possibility of the same injury recurring in the weakened area, and debris being left in the knee to cause further damage.  I have not read anything that confirmed how much of his meniscus was removed.  I've read articles that seem to take a basic knowledge of the knee joint and extrapolate from that how much cartilage he "may" have left...but I dont think anyone really knows.  Much like I don't "know" the current state of Rondos elbow.  All we know, is that CP3 appeared to be 100% in the playoffs, and that Rondo has appeared to be 100% in summer exhibitions.  Beyond that, I think it's all based on assumption...Thats why I said I wanted to actually know.

[barefacedmonk]

I read that they weren't able to sew his meniscus back together, but I know that usually that isnt even attempted in the first place, as patients usually respond well to having the torn pieces removed.  This avoids the possibility of the same injury recurring in the weakened area, and debris being left in the knee to cause further damage.  I have not read anything that confirmed how much of his meniscus was removed.  I've read articles that seem to take a basic knowledge of the knee joint and extrapolate from that how much cartilage he "may" have left...but I dont think anyone really knows.

Paul underwent surgery on the knee in early February. Noted orthopedist Dr. James Andrews, unable to sew the damaged piece of cartilage, cut it away instead, one of the primary reasons Paul played in just 45 games last season, and New Orleans found itself in the draft lottery instead of the playoffs.

Paul returned at the end of last season after rehabbing the knee, perhaps unwisely, which led to an offseason of further rehabilitation to get the knee as close to 100 percent as possible.

With Paul wearing a knee brace from the outset of training camp this season, speculation grew about the condition of his knee, fueling bizarre rumors about his health, whether there was any cartilage remaining in the joint, even if it would be necessary to go into the knee again perhaps once this season has ended.


Knees have two meniscus cartilages between the femur and the tibia bones, which provide a cushion so the bones do not grind together.

Because Paul’s torn meniscus could not be repaired by knitting it back together and the tear was sliced away, there’s the prospect of less cushioning cartilage between the bones, making it possible for some bone-on-bone wear and tear in the knee.

Portland’s Brandon Roy recently underwent surgery on both knees because of that issue. Microfracture surgery is sometimes an option for athletes who’ve had cartilage removal

Link

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

Steph Curry is a good baller, but he ain't better than Rondo.

If other GMs are viewing Curry as better than Rondo, the league is messed up.

Again, the league is about scoring. With West and Paul gone who do the Hornets have that can score? No one. Exactly why Rondo is a bad fit there. Rondo needs to be put around scorers and frankly the Hornets have none. Curry however can score. It's simple logic based on the present personnel.

  The league's about winning. How many points your pg can score when he's playing with 4 guys who can't put the ball in the basket shouldn't be that high a priority.

from an owner / GM's standpoint, the league is about putting fans in the seats, getting a lucrative tv deal, and then it's about winning.   sure, winning puts fans in the seats well enough (unless you're in miami), but you know what puts fans in the seats a lot more easily?

scoring.  lots of scoring.  a guy who can score 25+ points on most nights -- particularly a guy with a killer crossover and a sweet J (rim rattling dunks are an added plus but not make-or-break).

That make$ $en$e. TP.

[dtrader]

I read that they weren't able to sew his meniscus back together, but I know that usually that isnt even attempted in the first place, as patients usually respond well to having the torn pieces removed.  This avoids the possibility of the same injury recurring in the weakened area, and debris being left in the knee to cause further damage.  I have not read anything that confirmed how much of his meniscus was removed.  I've read articles that seem to take a basic knowledge of the knee joint and extrapolate from that how much cartilage he "may" have left...but I dont think anyone really knows.

Paul underwent surgery on the knee in early February. Noted orthopedist Dr. James Andrews, unable to sew the damaged piece of cartilage, cut it away instead, one of the primary reasons Paul played in just 45 games last season, and New Orleans found itself in the draft lottery instead of the playoffs.

Paul returned at the end of last season after rehabbing the knee, perhaps unwisely, which led to an offseason of further rehabilitation to get the knee as close to 100 percent as possible.

With Paul wearing a knee brace from the outset of training camp this season, speculation grew about the condition of his knee, fueling bizarre rumors about his health, whether there was any cartilage remaining in the joint, even if it would be necessary to go into the knee again perhaps once this season has ended.


Knees have two meniscus cartilages between the femur and the tibia bones, which provide a cushion so the bones do not grind together.

Because Paul’s torn meniscus could not be repaired by knitting it back together and the tear was sliced away, there’s the prospect of less cushioning cartilage between the bones, making it possible for some bone-on-bone wear and tear in the knee.

Portland’s Brandon Roy recently underwent surgery on both knees because of that issue. Microfracture surgery is sometimes an option for athletes who’ve had cartilage removal

Link

I read that.  More importantly, I read the NOLA.com article that the excerpts were taken from.  The original article was about how CP keeps getting banged up, but basically hasnt let it slow him down.  The article points to suspicions about him having no cartilage in the knee (the circumstance that would lead to the joint being bone on bone) as "bizarre rumors." The article explains that part of the cartilage was cut away, but as I said...it doesnt say how much. It could have been a tiny piece (which could cause tons of pain when it happened and lingering pain after as it healed, but no noticeable permanent long term effects). 

Basically, the whole point of the celticlife.com article that was linked, is to bring up potential negatives regarding CP3s knee as reasons to oppose the trade.  Choice quotes taken without their surrounding context, make it seem like a strong case.  However, many of the points the celticslife article seems to raise, are directly refuted by the original NOLA.com article. 

[barefacedmonk]

I read that they weren't able to sew his meniscus back together, but I know that usually that isnt even attempted in the first place, as patients usually respond well to having the torn pieces removed.  This avoids the possibility of the same injury recurring in the weakened area, and debris being left in the knee to cause further damage.  I have not read anything that confirmed how much of his meniscus was removed.  I've read articles that seem to take a basic knowledge of the knee joint and extrapolate from that how much cartilage he "may" have left...but I dont think anyone really knows.

Paul underwent surgery on the knee in early February. Noted orthopedist Dr. James Andrews, unable to sew the damaged piece of cartilage, cut it away instead, one of the primary reasons Paul played in just 45 games last season, and New Orleans found itself in the draft lottery instead of the playoffs.

Paul returned at the end of last season after rehabbing the knee, perhaps unwisely, which led to an offseason of further rehabilitation to get the knee as close to 100 percent as possible.

With Paul wearing a knee brace from the outset of training camp this season, speculation grew about the condition of his knee, fueling bizarre rumors about his health, whether there was any cartilage remaining in the joint, even if it would be necessary to go into the knee again perhaps once this season has ended.


Knees have two meniscus cartilages between the femur and the tibia bones, which provide a cushion so the bones do not grind together.

Because Paul’s torn meniscus could not be repaired by knitting it back together and the tear was sliced away, there’s the prospect of less cushioning cartilage between the bones, making it possible for some bone-on-bone wear and tear in the knee.

Portland’s Brandon Roy recently underwent surgery on both knees because of that issue. Microfracture surgery is sometimes an option for athletes who’ve had cartilage removal

Link

I read that.  More importantly, I read the NOLA.com article that the excerpts were taken from.  The original article was about how CP keeps getting banged up, but basically hasnt let it slow him down.  The article points to suspicions about him having no cartilage in the knee (the circumstance that would lead to the joint being bone on bone) as "bizarre rumors." The article explains that part of the cartilage was cut away, but as I said...it doesnt say how much. It could have been a tiny piece (which could cause tons of pain when it happened and lingering pain after as it healed, but no noticeable permanent long term effects). 

Basically, the whole point of the celticlife.com article that was linked, is to bring up potential negatives regarding CP3s knee as reasons to oppose the trade.  Choice quotes taken without their surrounding context, make it seem like a strong case.  However, many of the points the celticslife article seems to raise, are directly refuted by the original NOLA.com article. 

Link?

It would be nice to get the full picture re: his injury.

[LB3533]

Steph Curry is a good baller, but he ain't better than Rondo.

If other GMs are viewing Curry as better than Rondo, the league is messed up.

Again, the league is about scoring. With West and Paul gone who do the Hornets have that can score? No one. Exactly why Rondo is a bad fit there. Rondo needs to be put around scorers and frankly the Hornets have none. Curry however can score. It's simple logic based on the present personnel.

Well to me, and I am no expert, I don't think Curry is the better scorer compared to Rondo.

Curry is certainly the more efficient player and way better shooter.

But the overall player comprises of more than just being efficient and shooting.

Rondo as the overall player is just better than Curry.

Curry has a lot more to prove, he only has 2 seasons under his belt and they weren't that shiny.

[BballTim]

I'm seeing a lot of debate here.

We are all unanimously in agreement that Chris Paul is a better point guard and player than Rondo, right? I just want to make sure.

The disagreement is just over how much better and whether the cost is worth it. Right?

Is there anyone here who actually believes that Rondo is a better player/point guard than CP3?

  Let everybody know how CP3's knee will be going forward, and then it's an easy answer. We're all in agreement that CP3 played last year at a level well below his best years, right?

Let us know how Rondos shoulder is too. If his shoulder is not 100% then letting him go now will be a whole lot easier.  CP3 had a down regular season, but looked 100% in the playoffs.  Who knows how well Rondo healed.

  When did Rondo hurt his shoulder? Do you mean Perk?

lol.  No.  I just remembered it was a dislocation, and I'm dealing with one of my own shoulder right now, so my mind naturally tied "dislocation" to "shoulder" when it should have been "elbow".

  Ok, do you have any evidence that Rondo suffered permanent damage to his elbow? This isn't just people here idly claiming that CP3 might have permanent knee issues, there have been quite a few articles about it.

I dont have any more definitive proof that Rondo suffered permanent functional damage, than anyone has for CP3s knee.  However, considering the history of injury releases from the celtics the past few years (KG, JO, Shaq, etc) I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility to say that Rondos injury could have been more serious than it was explained to be.  I've read multiple articles about CPs knee...most were glorified idle claims about what "sometimes" "can" happen with meniscus tears and related surgeries.  I have yet to see an article that has said that CP has had lingering effects from the injury, that the surgery wasn't successful, or that his entire meniscus was removed.

  Haha. Kind of like saying we shouldn't trade for Paul because he might get hit by a bus or something.

All we know, is that CP3 appeared to be 100% in the playoffs, and that Rondo has appeared to be 100% in summer exhibitions.  Beyond that, I think it's all based on assumption...Thats why I said I wanted to actually know.

  That's what people don't get, the concern is that CP3 *is* 100%. The hope is that he's about 80% and he'll improve. 2-3 years ago he was putting up 22/11 or so with a PER over 30. Now he's 16/10 with a PER of 25 or so. 2-3 years ago his clutch scoring was about 40 points per 48 with about a .500 fg%. Now it's about 25 points per 48 with a .390 fg%.

[Fafnir]

Steph Curry is a good baller, but he ain't better than Rondo.

If other GMs are viewing Curry as better than Rondo, the league is messed up.

Again, the league is about scoring. With West and Paul gone who do the Hornets have that can score? No one. Exactly why Rondo is a bad fit there. Rondo needs to be put around scorers and frankly the Hornets have none. Curry however can score. It's simple logic based on the present personnel.

  The league's about winning. How many points your pg can score when he's playing with 4 guys who can't put the ball in the basket shouldn't be that high a priority.

from an owner / GM's standpoint, the league is about putting fans in the seats, getting a lucrative tv deal, and then it's about winning.   sure, winning puts fans in the seats well enough (unless you're in miami), but you know what puts fans in the seats a lot more easily?

scoring.  lots of scoring.  a guy who can score 25+ points on most nights -- particularly a guy with a killer crossover and a sweet J (rim rattling dunks are an added plus but not make-or-break).

This isn't true attendance tracks winning not scoring.

Scoring sells jerseys but filling seats requires winning.

[PosImpos]

Steph Curry is a good baller, but he ain't better than Rondo.

If other GMs are viewing Curry as better than Rondo, the league is messed up.

Again, the league is about scoring. With West and Paul gone who do the Hornets have that can score? No one. Exactly why Rondo is a bad fit there. Rondo needs to be put around scorers and frankly the Hornets have none. Curry however can score. It's simple logic based on the present personnel.

  The league's about winning. How many points your pg can score when he's playing with 4 guys who can't put the ball in the basket shouldn't be that high a priority.

from an owner / GM's standpoint, the league is about putting fans in the seats, getting a lucrative tv deal, and then it's about winning.   sure, winning puts fans in the seats well enough (unless you're in miami), but you know what puts fans in the seats a lot more easily?

scoring.  lots of scoring.  a guy who can score 25+ points on most nights -- particularly a guy with a killer crossover and a sweet J (rim rattling dunks are an added plus but not make-or-break).

This isn't true attendance tracks winning not scoring.

Scoring sells jerseys but filling seats requires winning.

. . . but if you are going to have a rebuilding / middle of the road at best team either way, you want an exciting young scorer on your team to get the fans interested and hopeful for the future.

[dtrader]

I'm seeing a lot of debate here.

We are all unanimously in agreement that Chris Paul is a better point guard and player than Rondo, right? I just want to make sure.

The disagreement is just over how much better and whether the cost is worth it. Right?

Is there anyone here who actually believes that Rondo is a better player/point guard than CP3?

  Let everybody know how CP3's knee will be going forward, and then it's an easy answer. We're all in agreement that CP3 played last year at a level well below his best years, right?

Let us know how Rondos shoulder is too. If his shoulder is not 100% then letting him go now will be a whole lot easier.  CP3 had a down regular season, but looked 100% in the playoffs.  Who knows how well Rondo healed.

  When did Rondo hurt his shoulder? Do you mean Perk?

lol.  No.  I just remembered it was a dislocation, and I'm dealing with one of my own shoulder right now, so my mind naturally tied "dislocation" to "shoulder" when it should have been "elbow".

  Ok, do you have any evidence that Rondo suffered permanent damage to his elbow? This isn't just people here idly claiming that CP3 might have permanent knee issues, there have been quite a few articles about it.

I dont have any more definitive proof that Rondo suffered permanent functional damage, than anyone has for CP3s knee.  However, considering the history of injury releases from the celtics the past few years (KG, JO, Shaq, etc) I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility to say that Rondos injury could have been more serious than it was explained to be.  I've read multiple articles about CPs knee...most were glorified idle claims about what "sometimes" "can" happen with meniscus tears and related surgeries.  I have yet to see an article that has said that CP has had lingering effects from the injury, that the surgery wasn't successful, or that his entire meniscus was removed.

  Haha. Kind of like saying we shouldn't trade for Paul because he might get hit by a bus or something.

All we know, is that CP3 appeared to be 100% in the playoffs, and that Rondo has appeared to be 100% in summer exhibitions.  Beyond that, I think it's all based on assumption...Thats why I said I wanted to actually know.

  That's what people don't get, the concern is that CP3 *is* 100%. The hope is that he's about 80% and he'll improve. 2-3 years ago he was putting up 22/11 or so with a PER over 30. Now he's 16/10 with a PER of 25 or so. 2-3 years ago his clutch scoring was about 40 points per 48 with about a .500 fg%. Now it's about 25 points per 48 with a .390 fg%.

I dont really understand the hit by a bus comparison =/  I'm saying that theres is no definite proof that Rondos injury has healed 100%, and also no definitive proof that CPs injury has (or should be expected to have) caused permanent damage...so making any assumptions on either is pure speculation.

It doesnt make sense to me, to say what CP is doing "now", and then ignore what he did in the playoffs (his most recent production).  In his most recent games, CP proved to be enough to destroy an elite team.  If you consider how many people were using Rondos injured elbow as an excuse for his play in the playoffs, I'm sure those people are similarly hoping that he wasn't 100% the last time they saw him either.

This is the NOLA.com link
http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2011/01/hornets_ailing_chris_paul_cont.html

[BballTim]

Steph Curry is a good baller, but he ain't better than Rondo.

If other GMs are viewing Curry as better than Rondo, the league is messed up.

Again, the league is about scoring. With West and Paul gone who do the Hornets have that can score? No one. Exactly why Rondo is a bad fit there. Rondo needs to be put around scorers and frankly the Hornets have none. Curry however can score. It's simple logic based on the present personnel.

  The league's about winning. How many points your pg can score when he's playing with 4 guys who can't put the ball in the basket shouldn't be that high a priority.

from an owner / GM's standpoint, the league is about putting fans in the seats, getting a lucrative tv deal, and then it's about winning.   sure, winning puts fans in the seats well enough (unless you're in miami), but you know what puts fans in the seats a lot more easily?

scoring.  lots of scoring.  a guy who can score 25+ points on most nights -- particularly a guy with a killer crossover and a sweet J (rim rattling dunks are an added plus but not make-or-break).

  I'd say having one of the most electrifying players in the league will help put fans in the seats. Rondo makes a few plays a week that you won't see from anyone else in the league. And why are we talking about players like Chris Paul or Steph Curry when you're looking for a player capable of scoring  25+ points on most nights, wishful thinking?

[BballTim]

I'm seeing a lot of debate here.

We are all unanimously in agreement that Chris Paul is a better point guard and player than Rondo, right? I just want to make sure.

The disagreement is just over how much better and whether the cost is worth it. Right?

Is there anyone here who actually believes that Rondo is a better player/point guard than CP3?

  Let everybody know how CP3's knee will be going forward, and then it's an easy answer. We're all in agreement that CP3 played last year at a level well below his best years, right?

Let us know how Rondos shoulder is too. If his shoulder is not 100% then letting him go now will be a whole lot easier.  CP3 had a down regular season, but looked 100% in the playoffs.  Who knows how well Rondo healed.

  When did Rondo hurt his shoulder? Do you mean Perk?

lol.  No.  I just remembered it was a dislocation, and I'm dealing with one of my own shoulder right now, so my mind naturally tied "dislocation" to "shoulder" when it should have been "elbow".

  Ok, do you have any evidence that Rondo suffered permanent damage to his elbow? This isn't just people here idly claiming that CP3 might have permanent knee issues, there have been quite a few articles about it.

I dont have any more definitive proof that Rondo suffered permanent functional damage, than anyone has for CP3s knee.  However, considering the history of injury releases from the celtics the past few years (KG, JO, Shaq, etc) I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility to say that Rondos injury could have been more serious than it was explained to be.  I've read multiple articles about CPs knee...most were glorified idle claims about what "sometimes" "can" happen with meniscus tears and related surgeries.  I have yet to see an article that has said that CP has had lingering effects from the injury, that the surgery wasn't successful, or that his entire meniscus was removed.

  Haha. Kind of like saying we shouldn't trade for Paul because he might get hit by a bus or something.

All we know, is that CP3 appeared to be 100% in the playoffs, and that Rondo has appeared to be 100% in summer exhibitions.  Beyond that, I think it's all based on assumption...Thats why I said I wanted to actually know.

  That's what people don't get, the concern is that CP3 *is* 100%. The hope is that he's about 80% and he'll improve. 2-3 years ago he was putting up 22/11 or so with a PER over 30. Now he's 16/10 with a PER of 25 or so. 2-3 years ago his clutch scoring was about 40 points per 48 with about a .500 fg%. Now it's about 25 points per 48 with a .390 fg%.

I dont really understand the hit by a bus comparison =/  I'm saying that theres is no definite proof that Rondos injury has healed 100%, and also no definitive proof that CPs injury has (or should be expected to have) caused permanent damage...so making any assumptions on either is pure speculation.

It doesnt make sense to me, to say what CP is doing "now", and then ignore what he did in the playoffs (his most recent production).  In his most recent games, CP proved to be enough to destroy an elite team.  If you consider how many people were using Rondos injured elbow as an excuse for his play in the playoffs, I'm sure those people are similarly hoping that he wasn't 100% the last time they saw him either.

This is the NOLA.com link
http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2011/01/hornets_ailing_chris_paul_cont.html

  Sigh. Yes, people are hoping that Rondo wasn't 100% the last time they saw him. CP didn't destroy an elite team. The Lakers, who limped into the playoffs and were promptly swept in the second round dispatched the Hornets. And if you can show me links to some of the articles you've read about Rondo suffering possible permanent injuries to his elbow, it's similar. If not, it's a hit by a bus type of claim.

[PosImpos]

Steph Curry is a good baller, but he ain't better than Rondo.

If other GMs are viewing Curry as better than Rondo, the league is messed up.

Again, the league is about scoring. With West and Paul gone who do the Hornets have that can score? No one. Exactly why Rondo is a bad fit there. Rondo needs to be put around scorers and frankly the Hornets have none. Curry however can score. It's simple logic based on the present personnel.

  The league's about winning. How many points your pg can score when he's playing with 4 guys who can't put the ball in the basket shouldn't be that high a priority.

from an owner / GM's standpoint, the league is about putting fans in the seats, getting a lucrative tv deal, and then it's about winning.   sure, winning puts fans in the seats well enough (unless you're in miami), but you know what puts fans in the seats a lot more easily?

scoring.  lots of scoring.  a guy who can score 25+ points on most nights -- particularly a guy with a killer crossover and a sweet J (rim rattling dunks are an added plus but not make-or-break).

  I'd say having one of the most electrifying players in the league will help put fans in the seats. Rondo makes a few plays a week that you won't see from anyone else in the league. And why are we talking about players like Chris Paul or Steph Curry when you're looking for a player capable of scoring  25+ points on most nights, wishful thinking?

im just speaking in general about what i imagine is the reasoning for an NBA executive preferring a player like Curry over a player like Rondo for his rebuilding team.

rondo is an 'electric,' 'highlight reel' player in many respects, but it's harder for fans of a rebuilding team to get excited about a guy who scores 10-15 points a night and can't shoot.  stephen curry has shown the potential to be a 20-10 player, and he has one of the sweetest J's in the league.

[dtrader]

^Plus I think it's fair to say that both CP3 and stephen Curry are capable of scoring 25 any given night.  Just because they dont average that much doesn't mean they arent capable of doing it anytime.  PP doesnt average that either, but I'm sure he could score that against just about anyone if that was his aim.