Rondo/Paul trade idea

[BballTim]

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

  And who's been first team the last few years? Sure, he's better than AI, but he seems to be #2 on the list...

Rondo, of course before Paul was injured he was first team and Rondo was second team.  Paul played significantly better towards the end of last year, which makes sense since his knee injury is usually 12 months+ injury to recover from.  

  If CP3 recovers it will be interesting to see who does better. I think Rondo got more votes both years he won than CP3 did the one year he won.

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

  Paul's more careful with the ball although the difference is much more pronounced in the regular season than it is in the playoffs, where CP3 has more turnovers per game than Rondo. Rondo was also getting more minutes a game and more assists a game than CP3, so that's out the window as well.

Except that TOV% Rondo is worse then Paul even in the playoffs, which means he isn't any better a ball handler, Paul just increases his usage more then Rondo does in the playoffs, which given Paul is option #1 and Rondo is option #5 on offense makes sense.

  TOV% is based in part of fg attempts. CP3 Shoots a lot, which lowers his TOV%. And I'd assume that  you didn't watch any of the Celts playoff games over the last 3 years if you think Rondo's the #5 option on offense. His usage% is about the same as KG's and higher than Ray's.

And I'm not sure what site you are looking at for your stats, but Paul plays more minutes and has more assists then Rondo in the playoffs, both last year and their careers.  And that is totals and AST%.  In fact Chris Paul has the highest career AST% in playoff history at 53.16 (Stockton is second at 47.79 - Rondo is 8th at 39.75).  Paul is second only to Magic in assists per game in the playoffs (paul is at 11.13, Magic 12.35 - Rondo is 11th at 8.47).  Only Magic, Paul, and Stockton are in double digits.  

  You didn't specify whether you were talking about regular season or playoffs. Last year Rondo was injured in the playoffs, his numbers were close to CP3's before that.

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Again, CP3 is probably a little better, but the reason you can't see the argument is because you can't figure out that Rondo's contributions generally go well beyond his individual statistics.

And Paul's don't.  He carries his team because he has to and is still more efficient as the #1 option and the only guy opposing teams pay attention to.  Switch Paul and Rondo and the difference will be magnified significantly in the stat lines.  With Chris Paul, the Celtics would actually be a match for the Heat next year.

  Put Rondo on the Hornets and make him a bigger part of the offense and his stats go up. Put Paul on the Celts and either his go down or else Paul and Ray's stats go down.

[jdz101]

A straight swap would be the only thing I'm remotely interested in. If we lost other significant young pieces I'd say no.

[CoachBo]

I just can't think why you trade Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul.  I mean, if Danny doesn't have faith in Rondo, he ought to go for it, but I think Rondo is a player who has just begun to reach his potential, and looks pretty stellar.  Ainge should take him off the trading block.

It's called a jumpshot.

All GM's have 'faith' in their stars that they lock up longterm, but if a better player becomes obtainable, you have to pull the trigger for the betterment of the team.

Chris Paul makes this C's team better than Rondo.

Who plays better defense? That matters too. So does rebounds.

When healthy Chris Paul is every bit the defender Rajon Rondo is (higher ST% and higher totals).  Rondo has a 1% better rebound rate in his career then Paul does.  Paul is 8.6% better in AST%.  Paul is significantly better at hanging onto the ball with a TOV% almost 6% better.  Paul is a significantly better shooter and is just 1 year older.

Chris Paul is just flat out better then Rajon Rondo and when both are healthy it isn't close.  

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder. There's more to defense than steals. Paul is a better shooter and is more careful with the ball. When Paul and Rondo are both healthy Paul is flat out better, but that's Paul with a fully healthy knee, which isn't a given. If you look at Rondo's play last season before he started with the injuries, CP3 of 08-09 (23/6/11, PER of 30) was flat out better. CP3 of 10-11 (16/4/10, PER of 23.7) isn't that much (if any) better than Rondo of Nov/Dec. Will CP3 return to form? Not a given. Will Rondo get back to that pre-injury level? Not a given, but not unlikely. Will CP3 be the better player next year? He may be better, or it may be fairly close.

16/4/10 with a PER of 23.7 is way better then Rondo even in Dec/Jan.

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Indeed it is.

But this is CelticsBlog, where the arguments in defense of the young abound - Gerald Green, Brandon Hunter, for crying out loud, Paddy O'Blount, the first incarnation of Delonte West, Al Jefferson ...

Shall I go on? There's no end to the exaggeration here. There were people here - some gone, some still here - who honestly believed that we overpaid for KG and Ray Allen. Time has emphatically refuted those intellectually vacant arguments.

I don't particularly like this trade, but I would not hesitate to take advantage of the chance to end the liability that Rondo is on the offensive end with his inability to shoot the basketball.

Rondo and pieces for Chris Paul is absolutely a no-brainer. The size of this trade concerns me.

[BballTim]

I just can't think why you trade Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul.  I mean, if Danny doesn't have faith in Rondo, he ought to go for it, but I think Rondo is a player who has just begun to reach his potential, and looks pretty stellar.  Ainge should take him off the trading block.

It's called a jumpshot.

All GM's have 'faith' in their stars that they lock up longterm, but if a better player becomes obtainable, you have to pull the trigger for the betterment of the team.

Chris Paul makes this C's team better than Rondo.

Who plays better defense? That matters too. So does rebounds.

When healthy Chris Paul is every bit the defender Rajon Rondo is (higher ST% and higher totals).  Rondo has a 1% better rebound rate in his career then Paul does.  Paul is 8.6% better in AST%.  Paul is significantly better at hanging onto the ball with a TOV% almost 6% better.  Paul is a significantly better shooter and is just 1 year older.

Chris Paul is just flat out better then Rajon Rondo and when both are healthy it isn't close.  

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder. There's more to defense than steals. Paul is a better shooter and is more careful with the ball. When Paul and Rondo are both healthy Paul is flat out better, but that's Paul with a fully healthy knee, which isn't a given. If you look at Rondo's play last season before he started with the injuries, CP3 of 08-09 (23/6/11, PER of 30) was flat out better. CP3 of 10-11 (16/4/10, PER of 23.7) isn't that much (if any) better than Rondo of Nov/Dec. Will CP3 return to form? Not a given. Will Rondo get back to that pre-injury level? Not a given, but not unlikely. Will CP3 be the better player next year? He may be better, or it may be fairly close.

16/4/10 with a PER of 23.7 is way better then Rondo even in Dec/Jan.

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Indeed it is.

But this is CelticsBlog, where the arguments in defense of the young abound - Gerald Green, Brandon Hunter, for crying out loud, Paddy O'Blount, the first incarnation of Delonte West, Al Jefferson ...

Shall I go on? There's no end to the exaggeration here. There were people here - some gone, some still here - who honestly believed that we overpaid for KG and Ray Allen. Time has emphatically refuted those intellectually vacant arguments.

  According to the Celticsblog Forum Info Center, approximately 9000 members have generated about three quarters of a million posts on the blog. You seem to take quite a bit of pride in being more astute than some of the outliers. Congratulations on that. This has probably never occurred to you, but the fact that some people think Rondo's a good player does *not* mean that they were fans of Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, the same way thinking veterans like Pierce and Garnett are good doesn't mean you were a huge supporter of Marbury or Mikki Moore when they were on the Celts.

  Oh, and Rondo's not really a liability on offense, unless you think "liability on offense" means "the Celts offense is better when he plays". In which case I'd agree with what you said.

[Moranis]

I just can't think why you trade Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul.  I mean, if Danny doesn't have faith in Rondo, he ought to go for it, but I think Rondo is a player who has just begun to reach his potential, and looks pretty stellar.  Ainge should take him off the trading block.

It's called a jumpshot.

All GM's have 'faith' in their stars that they lock up longterm, but if a better player becomes obtainable, you have to pull the trigger for the betterment of the team.

Chris Paul makes this C's team better than Rondo.

Who plays better defense? That matters too. So does rebounds.

When healthy Chris Paul is every bit the defender Rajon Rondo is (higher ST% and higher totals).  Rondo has a 1% better rebound rate in his career then Paul does.  Paul is 8.6% better in AST%.  Paul is significantly better at hanging onto the ball with a TOV% almost 6% better.  Paul is a significantly better shooter and is just 1 year older.

Chris Paul is just flat out better then Rajon Rondo and when both are healthy it isn't close.  

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder. There's more to defense than steals. Paul is a better shooter and is more careful with the ball. When Paul and Rondo are both healthy Paul is flat out better, but that's Paul with a fully healthy knee, which isn't a given. If you look at Rondo's play last season before he started with the injuries, CP3 of 08-09 (23/6/11, PER of 30) was flat out better. CP3 of 10-11 (16/4/10, PER of 23.7) isn't that much (if any) better than Rondo of Nov/Dec. Will CP3 return to form? Not a given. Will Rondo get back to that pre-injury level? Not a given, but not unlikely. Will CP3 be the better player next year? He may be better, or it may be fairly close.

16/4/10 with a PER of 23.7 is way better then Rondo even in Dec/Jan.

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Indeed it is.

But this is CelticsBlog, where the arguments in defense of the young abound - Gerald Green, Brandon Hunter, for crying out loud, Paddy O'Blount, the first incarnation of Delonte West, Al Jefferson ...

Shall I go on? There's no end to the exaggeration here. There were people here - some gone, some still here - who honestly believed that we overpaid for KG and Ray Allen. Time has emphatically refuted those intellectually vacant arguments.

  According to the Celticsblog Forum Info Center, approximately 9000 members have generated about three quarters of a million posts on the blog. You seem to take quite a bit of pride in being more astute than some of the outliers. Congratulations on that. This has probably never occurred to you, but the fact that some people think Rondo's a good player does *not* mean that they were fans of Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, the same way thinking veterans like Pierce and Garnett are good doesn't mean you were a huge supporter of Marbury or Mikki Moore when they were on the Celts.

  Oh, and Rondo's not really a liability on offense, unless you think "liability on offense" means "the Celts offense is better when he plays". In which case I'd agree with what you said.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that Rondo is a good player he just isn't Chris Paul and there is no shame in that.  Chris Paul is the best PG since Magic (he doesn't have the career of Payton, Kidd, or Stockton, but I'd take Paul's peak over any of those guys peak).  It is certainly yet to be seen if Paul can get back to that level.  At 25 he certainly has the time to do it.

[BballTim]

I just can't think why you trade Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul.  I mean, if Danny doesn't have faith in Rondo, he ought to go for it, but I think Rondo is a player who has just begun to reach his potential, and looks pretty stellar.  Ainge should take him off the trading block.

It's called a jumpshot.

All GM's have 'faith' in their stars that they lock up longterm, but if a better player becomes obtainable, you have to pull the trigger for the betterment of the team.

Chris Paul makes this C's team better than Rondo.

Who plays better defense? That matters too. So does rebounds.

When healthy Chris Paul is every bit the defender Rajon Rondo is (higher ST% and higher totals).  Rondo has a 1% better rebound rate in his career then Paul does.  Paul is 8.6% better in AST%.  Paul is significantly better at hanging onto the ball with a TOV% almost 6% better.  Paul is a significantly better shooter and is just 1 year older.

Chris Paul is just flat out better then Rajon Rondo and when both are healthy it isn't close.  

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder. There's more to defense than steals. Paul is a better shooter and is more careful with the ball. When Paul and Rondo are both healthy Paul is flat out better, but that's Paul with a fully healthy knee, which isn't a given. If you look at Rondo's play last season before he started with the injuries, CP3 of 08-09 (23/6/11, PER of 30) was flat out better. CP3 of 10-11 (16/4/10, PER of 23.7) isn't that much (if any) better than Rondo of Nov/Dec. Will CP3 return to form? Not a given. Will Rondo get back to that pre-injury level? Not a given, but not unlikely. Will CP3 be the better player next year? He may be better, or it may be fairly close.

16/4/10 with a PER of 23.7 is way better then Rondo even in Dec/Jan.

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Indeed it is.

But this is CelticsBlog, where the arguments in defense of the young abound - Gerald Green, Brandon Hunter, for crying out loud, Paddy O'Blount, the first incarnation of Delonte West, Al Jefferson ...

Shall I go on? There's no end to the exaggeration here. There were people here - some gone, some still here - who honestly believed that we overpaid for KG and Ray Allen. Time has emphatically refuted those intellectually vacant arguments.

  According to the Celticsblog Forum Info Center, approximately 9000 members have generated about three quarters of a million posts on the blog. You seem to take quite a bit of pride in being more astute than some of the outliers. Congratulations on that. This has probably never occurred to you, but the fact that some people think Rondo's a good player does *not* mean that they were fans of Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, the same way thinking veterans like Pierce and Garnett are good doesn't mean you were a huge supporter of Marbury or Mikki Moore when they were on the Celts.

  Oh, and Rondo's not really a liability on offense, unless you think "liability on offense" means "the Celts offense is better when he plays". In which case I'd agree with what you said.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that Rondo is a good player he just isn't Chris Paul and there is no shame in that.  Chris Paul is the best PG since Magic (he doesn't have the career of Payton, Kidd, or Stockton, but I'd take Paul's peak over any of those guys peak).  It is certainly yet to be seen if Paul can get back to that level.  At 25 he certainly has the time to do it.

  It's probably more a matter of health than a matter of time. Will his knee be about as good next year as it was before the injury? I agree that CP3 in his prime was great, better than Rondo in his prime will be. Chris Paul last year compared to a healthy Rondo? It's a lot closer.

[Moranis]

I just can't think why you trade Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul.  I mean, if Danny doesn't have faith in Rondo, he ought to go for it, but I think Rondo is a player who has just begun to reach his potential, and looks pretty stellar.  Ainge should take him off the trading block.

It's called a jumpshot.

All GM's have 'faith' in their stars that they lock up longterm, but if a better player becomes obtainable, you have to pull the trigger for the betterment of the team.

Chris Paul makes this C's team better than Rondo.

Who plays better defense? That matters too. So does rebounds.

When healthy Chris Paul is every bit the defender Rajon Rondo is (higher ST% and higher totals).  Rondo has a 1% better rebound rate in his career then Paul does.  Paul is 8.6% better in AST%.  Paul is significantly better at hanging onto the ball with a TOV% almost 6% better.  Paul is a significantly better shooter and is just 1 year older.

Chris Paul is just flat out better then Rajon Rondo and when both are healthy it isn't close.  

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder. There's more to defense than steals. Paul is a better shooter and is more careful with the ball. When Paul and Rondo are both healthy Paul is flat out better, but that's Paul with a fully healthy knee, which isn't a given. If you look at Rondo's play last season before he started with the injuries, CP3 of 08-09 (23/6/11, PER of 30) was flat out better. CP3 of 10-11 (16/4/10, PER of 23.7) isn't that much (if any) better than Rondo of Nov/Dec. Will CP3 return to form? Not a given. Will Rondo get back to that pre-injury level? Not a given, but not unlikely. Will CP3 be the better player next year? He may be better, or it may be fairly close.

16/4/10 with a PER of 23.7 is way better then Rondo even in Dec/Jan.

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Indeed it is.

But this is CelticsBlog, where the arguments in defense of the young abound - Gerald Green, Brandon Hunter, for crying out loud, Paddy O'Blount, the first incarnation of Delonte West, Al Jefferson ...

Shall I go on? There's no end to the exaggeration here. There were people here - some gone, some still here - who honestly believed that we overpaid for KG and Ray Allen. Time has emphatically refuted those intellectually vacant arguments.

  According to the Celticsblog Forum Info Center, approximately 9000 members have generated about three quarters of a million posts on the blog. You seem to take quite a bit of pride in being more astute than some of the outliers. Congratulations on that. This has probably never occurred to you, but the fact that some people think Rondo's a good player does *not* mean that they were fans of Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, the same way thinking veterans like Pierce and Garnett are good doesn't mean you were a huge supporter of Marbury or Mikki Moore when they were on the Celts.

  Oh, and Rondo's not really a liability on offense, unless you think "liability on offense" means "the Celts offense is better when he plays". In which case I'd agree with what you said.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that Rondo is a good player he just isn't Chris Paul and there is no shame in that.  Chris Paul is the best PG since Magic (he doesn't have the career of Payton, Kidd, or Stockton, but I'd take Paul's peak over any of those guys peak).  It is certainly yet to be seen if Paul can get back to that level.  At 25 he certainly has the time to do it.

  It's probably more a matter of health than a matter of time. Will his knee be about as good next year as it was before the injury? I agree that CP3 in his prime was great, better than Rondo in his prime will be. Chris Paul last year compared to a healthy Rondo? It's a lot closer.

Rondo is a year younger then Paul.  It isn't like Paul is 30. 

[BballTim]

I just can't think why you trade Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul.  I mean, if Danny doesn't have faith in Rondo, he ought to go for it, but I think Rondo is a player who has just begun to reach his potential, and looks pretty stellar.  Ainge should take him off the trading block.

It's called a jumpshot.

All GM's have 'faith' in their stars that they lock up longterm, but if a better player becomes obtainable, you have to pull the trigger for the betterment of the team.

Chris Paul makes this C's team better than Rondo.

Who plays better defense? That matters too. So does rebounds.

When healthy Chris Paul is every bit the defender Rajon Rondo is (higher ST% and higher totals).  Rondo has a 1% better rebound rate in his career then Paul does.  Paul is 8.6% better in AST%.  Paul is significantly better at hanging onto the ball with a TOV% almost 6% better.  Paul is a significantly better shooter and is just 1 year older.

Chris Paul is just flat out better then Rajon Rondo and when both are healthy it isn't close.  

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder. There's more to defense than steals. Paul is a better shooter and is more careful with the ball. When Paul and Rondo are both healthy Paul is flat out better, but that's Paul with a fully healthy knee, which isn't a given. If you look at Rondo's play last season before he started with the injuries, CP3 of 08-09 (23/6/11, PER of 30) was flat out better. CP3 of 10-11 (16/4/10, PER of 23.7) isn't that much (if any) better than Rondo of Nov/Dec. Will CP3 return to form? Not a given. Will Rondo get back to that pre-injury level? Not a given, but not unlikely. Will CP3 be the better player next year? He may be better, or it may be fairly close.

16/4/10 with a PER of 23.7 is way better then Rondo even in Dec/Jan.

And I'm well aware there is more to defense then steals, but Paul has been first or second team all defense 3 of the last 4 years (two years ago he was hurt and didn't make the squad).  Paul isn't Iverson who just sits in passing lanes getting steals but otherwise can't guard a chair.  Paul is a superb defender.  

Paul is just better then Rondo and it isn't close even one legged Paul from last year was still better then Rondo.  I mean Paul gets more assists, scores more points on far better shooting, plays more minutes, has the ball in his hand far more often, and yet commits far less turnovers then Rondo.  Paul has been above 2.5 turnovers 1 time in his entire career.  Rondo has been above each of the last three seasons (and per 36 minutes would be four to Paul's one).

It isn't debatable and I don't know why people continue to argue this point.  It is just silly.  I can understand why people would have concerns about Paul's knee (though he played way more games then Rondo did last year and didn't end the year injured), and can certainly understand the concern that Paul might leave at the end of the year, but from a purely basketball standpoint it is a no brainer.

Indeed it is.

But this is CelticsBlog, where the arguments in defense of the young abound - Gerald Green, Brandon Hunter, for crying out loud, Paddy O'Blount, the first incarnation of Delonte West, Al Jefferson ...

Shall I go on? There's no end to the exaggeration here. There were people here - some gone, some still here - who honestly believed that we overpaid for KG and Ray Allen. Time has emphatically refuted those intellectually vacant arguments.

  According to the Celticsblog Forum Info Center, approximately 9000 members have generated about three quarters of a million posts on the blog. You seem to take quite a bit of pride in being more astute than some of the outliers. Congratulations on that. This has probably never occurred to you, but the fact that some people think Rondo's a good player does *not* mean that they were fans of Gerald Green and Patrick O'Bryant, the same way thinking veterans like Pierce and Garnett are good doesn't mean you were a huge supporter of Marbury or Mikki Moore when they were on the Celts.

  Oh, and Rondo's not really a liability on offense, unless you think "liability on offense" means "the Celts offense is better when he plays". In which case I'd agree with what you said.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that Rondo is a good player he just isn't Chris Paul and there is no shame in that.  Chris Paul is the best PG since Magic (he doesn't have the career of Payton, Kidd, or Stockton, but I'd take Paul's peak over any of those guys peak).  It is certainly yet to be seen if Paul can get back to that level.  At 25 he certainly has the time to do it.

  It's probably more a matter of health than a matter of time. Will his knee be about as good next year as it was before the injury? I agree that CP3 in his prime was great, better than Rondo in his prime will be. Chris Paul last year compared to a healthy Rondo? It's a lot closer.

Rondo is a year younger then Paul.  It isn't like Paul is 30. 

  I'm not sure what this means. It's not that CP3's issue is his age, it's whether he's bone on bone on his knee.

[kozlodoev]

Seem to?  Any stats to back that up?

Opponents eFG vs. Paul: .501
Opponents eFG vs. Rondo: .450

Any other questions?

Paul is simply not a defensive game-changer. You gotta live with the objective reality.

The numbers are from 82games.com. Note that some of the difference is probably an artifact of Boston's better team defense.

But to understand how Rondo impacts the game, I'll paraphrase a popular saying: You don't have to steal every ball. You just have to make the opponent think you can steal every ball.

[kozlodoev]

A straight swap would be the only thing I'm remotely interested in. If we lost other significant young pieces I'd say no.

We don't really have any significant young pieces.

[screwedupmaniac]

The only way I would do this trade is if it were a "Summer of 2007, Ray Allen/Kevin Garnett, wait for the second shoe to drop" sort of scenario in which Dwight Howard flew into Boston right behind CP3's arrival.

[Moranis]

A straight swap would be the only thing I'm remotely interested in. If we lost other significant young pieces I'd say no.

We don't really have any significant young pieces.

the Clippers pick could be a significant young piece.  I still think Green and Davis on the right contract have a fair amount of value, but they aren't significant in that regard.  I think the big thing is we could take on salary from New Orleans like Okafor, which could be a big piece for the Hornets. 

[JSD]

What do you think? Celts might have to throw in a draft pick, but I think this is a fair trade. Celts would make out really well, for sure.


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3s5j4vn

Not a terrible idea. How about Ariza instead of the trade exemption, though? This trade would leave us really thin at the 2.

[Moranis]

What do you think? Celts might have to throw in a draft pick, but I think this is a fair trade. Celts would make out really well, for sure.


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3s5j4vn

Not a terrible idea. How about Ariza instead of the trade exemption, though? This trade would leave us really thin at the 2.

It certainly would, but we'd also have a spot for someone like Jason Richardson.