Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA

[Change]

Did Spurs have any of those quote-unquote "tough guys" in their championship run? Maybe only Stephen Jackson in 2003

Bruce Bowen.

robert horry, malik rose

[Eja117]

I will support DA to the bitter end on letting TA go

[wahz]

Random things:

The spurs had DUNCAN, Bowen, Jackson and Robert Horry, among others. Not to be a smart guy but Horry was both perhaps the greatest clutch shooter in history and capable of throwing Steve Nash over the scorers table. Jackson is close to crazy. Bowen was simply brutal

Im thinking the spurs isnt a great example.

Anyway I started this and among other issues I think if we had signed TA we'd still have Perk so it kind of annoys me.


And I left off PJ off the tough guy list only because DA didn't fail there he was just at retirement age. But he too hasn't exactly been replaced. Eddie isn't exactly a shrinking violet either. Sam Cassell, too. That was a hard nosed group. These guys? Not so much


Should I mention we let Cliff Ray go?

[Roy H.]

Ouch:

“I guess they wanted to get more offensive-minded,” Allen says. “They got rid of me, and, well, now who do you get to defend the perimeter? OK, you guys got shooters. Now you get rid of Perkins, and who sticks the best post man? Who sticks Dwight [Howard] and Amar’e [Stoudemire]? Well, I guess they want to spread the floor a little more. I don’t know. It all caught me by surprise. I guess they want to be more of a shooting team than a defensive team.”

At least he didn't mention how much softer we became, as well.  I'm not a Tony fan, but man, we could use him right now.

[vinnie]

Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys

Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

You've replaced these players and added even more quality players to the roster.  You don't need some idiot like Tony Allen screwing things up for you in the playoffs.

Shaq -- probably not going to play
JO -- who knows when the knee starts acting up again
Jeff Green -- passive, soft and often looks disinterested. Oh, and can't rebound
Nenad Krstic -- soft, weak defender
BBD -- has become a perimeter jump shooter who can't rebound

The only guy out of the 5 who has any real toughness is JO.

[Dunn]

Great job in choosing just some of the current players for comparison, leave out Troy and Carlos etc. And excuse me but was it not TA who guarded Lebron like a champ last year in the playoffs. I don't know how anybody with bbd in their nickname have the audacity to claim TA screwed up anything for this team. TA is right what he said about Danny Ainge wanting guys who have jumpers over toughness. Way too obvious.

[tyrone biggums]

Boston fans like grit and toughness and as long as a team has those ingredients it doesn't matter if they win or lose. This is just the culture up here, I can understand it however who cares as long as the Celtics raise another banner?

[Senninsage]

I must say that I completely agree with the sentiments here.

Perhaps trading Perk was the last straw?  Is that why it was so significant for some?  The last Celtic tough guy, after Posey, Powe, and TA left, and then Perk too?

The thing is, I think losing any single one of those guys was perfectly fine.  In each isolated case, it was probably a good move.  Together, the character of the team changed drastically. 

We were Jif Chunky, and now we're Jif Creamy.

We let walk or traded away our nuts.  We've got talent, but no nuts.

Personally, I think it's high time we stop looking for excuses for why the Celtics will or won't succeed. No matter what situation a team is faced with, they have to find a way to win. All the best teams need to do it. Why can't this same amazing team that went to the NBA finals last year, without Shaq, do the same thing again? We have in Jermaine O'neal, for better or worse, a significantly more talented player than Perkins was.

In fact, he's an upgrade in just about every way, especially in the shot blocking department. The only advantage Perk had was in the area of low post defense, and that advantage isn't nearly significant enough to draw even with all the things Jermaine brings to the table. And improving on setting screens is something that can be accomplished in no time flat.

Jermaine is also an unbelievable screen and roll defender. Fact is, we have all we need to not only win a championship, but certainly get past the New York Knicks.

[Roy H.]

We have in Jermaine O'neal, for better or worse, a significantly more talented player than Perkins was.

In fact, he's an upgrade in just about every way, especially in the shot blocking department. The only advantage Perk had was in the area of low post defense, and that advantage isn't nearly significant enough to draw even with all the things Jermaine brings to the table. And improving on setting screens is something that can be accomplished in no time flat.

I think you may be overrating JO just a tad.  If he's a vastly superior player to Perk, why was he available for the MLE, when other starting-caliber centers are getting $8 - $10 million per season?

[xmuscularghandix]

Did Spurs have any of those quote-unquote "tough guys" in their championship run? Maybe only Stephen Jackson in 2003

Bruce Bowen.

Yeah, in a way
But theres a big difference between a tough guy, and a pest

Bruce Bowen was a shut down defender.

[chambers]

Tony Allen has been replaced by Delonte West.
Although he isn't as good defensively, he's not a defensive liability. You could argue that he's tougher and a better all round player by FAR.
People conveniently leave out players of these discussions for the sake of their own arguments all the time.

Our Core unit for the playoffs:
Rondo
Allen
Pierce
KG
JO/Shaq
BBD
West
Green
Krstic (if Shaq doesn't return to normal minutes by the Miami Series).

JO+ Delonte+ BBD coming in provides more than enough 'toughness' off the bench.
People telling me baby isn't tough is pure garbage. He out hustles, outworks and defends guys that have 2-3 inches on him every night. He never knew his dad and his mom was a crack addict (among other things). He hustled on the street to help feed his family.

Boston Celtics= toughest team in the NBA.

[Cman]

I must say that I completely agree with the sentiments here.

Perhaps trading Perk was the last straw?  Is that why it was so significant for some?  The last Celtic tough guy, after Posey, Powe, and TA left, and then Perk too?

The thing is, I think losing any single one of those guys was perfectly fine.  In each isolated case, it was probably a good move.  Together, the character of the team changed drastically. 

We were Jif Chunky, and now we're Jif Creamy.

We let walk or traded away our nuts.  We've got talent, but no nuts.

i like the general idea behind this thought and others i read on cb.  keep in mind two things: (1) these are all guys that DA believed enough in the first place that they were celtics (whereas they were passed over by most other gms).  (2) I get the TA love, I really do.  But if it were left to cb armchair gms, TA would have been cut a couple years ago...

[scoop1977]

Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys

Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

Someone hates defense.

[Bankshot]

I said before the season started that we'd miss Tony.  He's playing his best ball now.