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Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« on: April 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM »

Offline wahz

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Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys

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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2011, 12:15:27 PM »

Offline More Banners

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I must say that I completely agree with the sentiments here.

Perhaps trading Perk was the last straw?  Is that why it was so significant for some?  The last Celtic tough guy, after Posey, Powe, and TA left, and then Perk too?

The thing is, I think losing any single one of those guys was perfectly fine.  In each isolated case, it was probably a good move.  Together, the character of the team changed drastically. 

We were Jif Chunky, and now we're Jif Creamy.

We let walk or traded away our nuts.  We've got talent, but no nuts.

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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2011, 12:32:48 PM »

Offline moiso

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Quote from: More Banners on April 16, 2011, 12:15:27 PM
I must say that I completely agree with the sentiments here.

Perhaps trading Perk was the last straw?  Is that why it was so significant for some?  The last Celtic tough guy, after Posey, Powe, and TA left, and then Perk too?

The thing is, I think losing any single one of those guys was perfectly fine.  In each isolated case, it was probably a good move.  Together, the character of the team changed drastically. 

We were Jif Chunky, and now we're Jif Creamy.

We let walk or traded away our nuts.  We've got talent, but no nuts.


Nice post.  I love all these guys as players.  I just like the physically tough players better than the finesse ones.  I prefer to go into the playoff wars with warriors and instigators.  It's not cool how we can now get bullied and we might only step up to the challenge after a Doc Rivers halftime speech.  Those former Celtic tough guys didn't need motivational speeches to get them to play tough.  I miss them all.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2011, 01:17:09 PM »

Offline soap07

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Quote
He’s been a dynamic presence for the Grizzlies, and, yes, it isn’t lost on him that the Celtics miss him.

Uh, no they don't. His toughness is great. His terrible IQ, ballhandling, proneness to injury and shooting was not.

Quote
I prefer to go into the playoff wars with warriors and instigators.

 I prefer, you know, players who can actually play.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 01:24:01 PM »

Offline bbd24

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Quote from: wahz on April 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM
Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys



Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

You've replaced these players and added even more quality players to the roster.  You don't need some idiot like Tony Allen screwing things up for you in the playoffs.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2011, 01:44:42 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Quote from: bbd24 on April 16, 2011, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: wahz on April 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM
Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys



Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

You've replaced these players and added even more quality players to the roster.  You don't need some idiot like Tony Allen screwing things up for you in the playoffs.

The darned thing is, I agree with this, too.  This is why I agreed with each individual move, but looking at the whole right now, with those guys, the whole was greater than the parts.  Now, I'm not sure that's true.  Actually, I don't think it is.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2011, 02:16:45 PM »

Offline snively

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West + TA + JO would have made for a dynamite 2nd unit defensively.  Oh well.

Not a big fan of Wojo's writing style though.  Almost breathless.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2011, 03:05:41 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Quote from: More Banners on April 16, 2011, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: bbd24 on April 16, 2011, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: wahz on April 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM
Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys



Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

You've replaced these players and added even more quality players to the roster.  You don't need some idiot like Tony Allen screwing things up for you in the playoffs.

The darned thing is, I agree with this, too.  This is why I agreed with each individual move, but looking at the whole right now, with those guys, the whole was greater than the parts.  Now, I'm not sure that's true.  Actually, I don't think it is.

I disagree though.

If I were guessing who would win 1-on-1, i would say Green > Allen.

But whomever it is would be coming off the bench and fitting into a team; in that case i'd take TA > Green for this team. TA is getting buzz for All-Defense team; Green is basically just barely acceptable across the board.

Shaq+JO > Perkins only works if Shaq plays because Perkins >> JO. Besides, we could/should just have Shaq+JO+Perkins and not even have to debate it.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2011, 03:07:24 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote from: More Banners on April 16, 2011, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: bbd24 on April 16, 2011, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: wahz on April 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM
Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys



Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

You've replaced these players and added even more quality players to the roster.  You don't need some idiot like Tony Allen screwing things up for you in the playoffs.

The darned thing is, I agree with this, too.  This is why I agreed with each individual move, but looking at the whole right now, with those guys, the whole was greater than the parts.  Now, I'm not sure that's true.  Actually, I don't think it is.
one other thing to keep in mind with those guys is that they started out in Boston and were part of a family (more of less).  The C's right now have a 'family' of PP, BBD and Bradley.  I don't include Delonte because he's been elsewhere for a few years.  It's not necessarily a major impact on the team, but it does play at least a small role (IMO)
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2011, 03:52:23 PM »

Offline bbd24

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Quote from: Fan from VT on April 16, 2011, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: More Banners on April 16, 2011, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: bbd24 on April 16, 2011, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: wahz on April 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM
Seeing Powe hug on Garnett on "The Association" last night, we've now given up several tough guys from the last few years, including Powe, Perk, Tony Allen, and Posey. Woj ran a great article on Tony yesterday

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtgckITIiQmvtS5vBeASJvU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_allen_inspires_grizzlies_playoff_run_041511

The best part might be him "beating Mayo senseless."

we have not replaced these guys



Shaq/JO > Perkins

Jeff Green > Tony Allen

BBD or Krstic, take your pick > Powe

You've replaced these players and added even more quality players to the roster.  You don't need some idiot like Tony Allen screwing things up for you in the playoffs.

The darned thing is, I agree with this, too.  This is why I agreed with each individual move, but looking at the whole right now, with those guys, the whole was greater than the parts.  Now, I'm not sure that's true.  Actually, I don't think it is.

I disagree though.

If I were guessing who would win 1-on-1, i would say Green > Allen.

But whomever it is would be coming off the bench and fitting into a team; in that case i'd take TA > Green for this team. TA is getting buzz for All-Defense team; Green is basically just barely acceptable across the board.

Shaq+JO > Perkins only works if Shaq plays because Perkins >> JO. Besides, we could/should just have Shaq+JO+Perkins and not even have to debate it.

Then you wouldn't have a bench if you had Shaq/JO/Perkins.  And you'd be betting on them all staying healthy which all 3 of them have had trouble doing.  Not a good bet.

Perkins > JO works, but by how much ? Those two are pretty darn close with their overall games.  Perks a better defender, O'neal provides more offense.  Its pretty darn close with those two, in all around play, and if thats the case, adding a player like Green to the equation helps you cope with the loss of Perk and adds depth to the bench (which needed help drastically).

I never get the TA vs Green analysis.  Doens't make sense.  Two completely different players going forward. TA has 6 years experience, going on 7.  Green has 3 yrs, going on 4.  Shoot, when Tony had 3 yrs under his belt he could barely even see the floor, because he was either injured or dribbling his way out of the lineup.  Green's seeing the floor and then some.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 04:41:00 PM by bbd24 »
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 04:18:21 PM »

Offline screwedupmaniac

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I still trust Danny until I have reason to believe otherwise (if we get Banner 18 this year, it will help me to continue to trust Ainge).

However, I have zero respect for him and the way he does business. Doc preaches Ubuntu, but Danny doesn't seem to buy into it with his seemingly itchy trigger finger when it comes to trades and letting people walk. He talked about "how excruciatingly painful it was to trade away Perk"...sure Danny, I can totally see you crumpled up in the fetal position in the corner of your office while you were on the phone approving the trade with OKC.  ::)

That being said, our team ON PAPER is more talented than it was at the beginning of the year, IMO. However, I'd rather have mediocre talent with heart that overachieves, than have prime talent that seems to lack a killer instinct.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 04:53:56 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Did Spurs have any of those quote-unquote "tough guys" in their championship run? Maybe only Stephen Jackson in 2003

And what is tough, having a mean expression with tatoos? No true definition for it

Does that even matter? Who cares
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 05:01:59 PM »

Online Who

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I'd like to see Tony Allen make the first team All-Defense this year.

G: Tony Allen
G: Andre Iguodala
F: Gerald Wallace
F: Kevin Garnett
C: Dwight Howard
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 05:18:36 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Quote from: OsirusCeltics on April 16, 2011, 04:53:56 PM
Did Spurs have any of those quote-unquote "tough guys" in their championship run? Maybe only Stephen Jackson in 2003


Bruce Bowen.
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Re: Another DA move this year: Awesome article on TA
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2011, 05:26:07 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Quote from: More Banners on April 16, 2011, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: OsirusCeltics on April 16, 2011, 04:53:56 PM
Did Spurs have any of those quote-unquote "tough guys" in their championship run? Maybe only Stephen Jackson in 2003


Bruce Bowen.

Yeah, in a way
But theres a big difference between a tough guy, and a pest
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