It's in the best interest of the Celtics if Doc retires..

[Fafnir]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

DOH, good catch Nick.

I just assumed he disagreed with me! 

Nope nope, I agreed with Faf.  Still hurting a little bit inside for it, but I agreed with him.   

He was forced to play Big Al, Gomes, and Powe because of injuries to other players. Then he said "oh wow this person I kept buried on the bench can actually play! what a surprise" He sort of fell into realizing they had talent accidentally.

Not true, both Powe and Gomes got minutes early and didn't play all that well. They were then benched until injuries allowed them back into the rotation.

Big Al was always being given minutes to develop him he didn't play full time until injuries but he played.

Furthermore the idea that the only way a player "develops" is by being force fed playing time is ridiculous. Gerald Green didn't develop despite his many minutes, there is something to be said for having players earn their minutes.

[clover]

***Exhales deeply***

My boy Doc just gets so very little love on this board.

The players in interviews are praising Doc about keeping this team together and focused and believing in itself throughout the season. His defensive scheme is once again being bought into by the players and yielding championship like results. He is coaching better than maybe anyone in the NBA right now.

And yet people still are looking to replace him or put him out to pasture.

I would have thought that by now Celtics fans would be clamouring to have Danny resign Doc to a three year extension given his results, not trying to get him to retire.

Yep.  Doc's finally genuinely come into his prime as a coach, he's still got the respect of the team--and people want him out?  The season's not over, but so far Doc has been superb through the playoffs.

[fairweatherfan]

***Exhales deeply***

My boy Doc just gets so very little love on this board.

The players in interviews are praising Doc about keeping this team together and focused and believing in itself throughout the season. His defensive scheme is once again being bought into by the players and yielding championship like results. He is coaching better than maybe anyone in the NBA right now.

And yet people still are looking to replace him or put him out to pasture.

I would have thought that by now Celtics fans would be clamouring to have Danny resign Doc to a three year extension given his results, not trying to get him to retire.

Yep.  Doc's finally genuinely come into his prime as a coach, he's still got the respect of the team--and people want him out?  The season's not over, but so far Doc has been superb through the playoffs.

I don't want Doc to leave, but there have been a lot of rumors that he'll step down voluntarily at the end of the year.  I think that's the basis for a lot of this.

[Scalablob990]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

DOH, good catch Nick.

I just assumed he disagreed with me! 

Nope nope, I agreed with Faf.  Still hurting a little bit inside for it, but I agreed with him.   

He was forced to play Big Al, Gomes, and Powe because of injuries to other players. Then he said "oh wow this person I kept buried on the bench can actually play! what a surprise" He sort of fell into realizing they had talent accidentally.

Not true, both Powe and Gomes got minutes early and didn't play all that well. They were then benched until injuries allowed them back into the rotation.

Big Al was always being given minutes to develop him he didn't play full time until injuries but he played.

Furthermore the idea that the only way a player "develops" is by being force fed playing time is ridiculous. Gerald Green didn't develop despite his many minutes, there is something to be said for having players earn their minutes.

But to an extent that IS the case though Fafnir. I've noticed Doc either has a short leash or a long leash with players. In Powe or Gomes case, it was one foul and it's back to the bench. You can't do that with a rookie because each time they come off the bench they're scared to do ANYTHING wrong, which always results in something going wrong.

When injuries forced Doc to play them and he HAD to keep them in regardless of what rookie error they made, they actually got into rhythm and he saw what they actually look like when they aren't nervous.

This "leash" concept i'm talking about is true, he'll give some players endless time to dig out of a slump. The best example was Ray Allen in the Cleveland Series back in 07-08. Ray couldn't throw the ball into the ocean, he was really killing us on the offensive end, but Doc let him shoot brick after brick. You know if that was Gomes or Powe they'd be riding the pine after the first bad game.

[Scalablob990]

I'm indifferent towards Doc on all fronts, but he HAS made some bone headed substitutions and moves at crucial times in the game. He still relies on his starters wayyy to much. The one that drove me nuts was back when LA came to Boston and he didn't use Tony Allen in the second half....after he shut down Kobe the first half.

In other news, Paul Pierce is a horrible player, because he misses 55% of his shots.

  Where is this one coming from Koz? Pierce has no relevance to that argument at all.

[guava_wrench]

I'm indifferent towards Doc on all fronts, but he HAS made some bone headed substitutions and moves at crucial times in the game. He still relies on his starters wayyy to much. The one that drove me nuts was back when LA came to Boston and he didn't use Tony Allen in the second half....after he shut down Kobe the first half.

In other news, Paul Pierce is a horrible player, because he misses 55% of his shots.

  Where is this one coming from Koz? Pierce has no relevance to that argument at all.

The point he is making is actually brilliant.

Coaches make so many decisions during a game, that it is easy to cherry pick things we don't agree with though there might be such a small part of what the coach brings to the team.

There is a deeper point to be made that we actually have no idea what the alternative outcomes would have been. It is easy to call a move boneheaded, but if a coach does A and we lose, a bunch of fans complain he should have done B and he is an idiot. If he had done B and we still lost, a bunch of fans would call him an idiot for not doing A.

It is so easy to criticize moves already made during a game since you can never be proven wrong.

Another thing -- you never see people posting "I thought Doc should have done A during the game, but he did B and we won, so I am a bonehead".

[Scalablob990]

I'm indifferent towards Doc on all fronts, but he HAS made some bone headed substitutions and moves at crucial times in the game. He still relies on his starters wayyy to much. The one that drove me nuts was back when LA came to Boston and he didn't use Tony Allen in the second half....after he shut down Kobe the first half.

In other news, Paul Pierce is a horrible player, because he misses 55% of his shots.

  Where is this one coming from Koz? Pierce has no relevance to that argument at all.

The point he is making is actually brilliant.

Coaches make so many decisions during a game, that it is easy to cherry pick things we don't agree with though there might be such a small part of what the coach brings to the team.

There is a deeper point to be made that we actually have no idea what the alternative outcomes would have been. It is easy to call a move boneheaded, but if a coach does A and we lose, a bunch of fans complain he should have done B and he is an idiot. If he had done B and we still lost, a bunch of fans would call him an idiot for not doing A.

It is so easy to criticize moves already made during a game since you can never be proven wrong.

Another thing -- you never see people posting "I thought Doc should have done A during the game, but he did B and we won, so I am a bonehead".

Strong post Gueva, you make alot of good points my friend. TP

[nickagneta]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

DOH, good catch Nick.

I just assumed he disagreed with me! 

Nope nope, I agreed with Faf.  Still hurting a little bit inside for it, but I agreed with him.   

He was forced to play Big Al, Gomes, and Powe because of injuries to other players. Then he said "oh wow this person I kept buried on the bench can actually play! what a surprise" He sort of fell into realizing they had talent accidentally.

Complete urban legend that has no basis in fact