Big Baby's role?

[Chris]

I think Big Baby should eventually start for the C's at #3, moving Pierce to #2 (he plays like a guard, anyway) and have Ray Allen come off the bench as 6th man (instant offense).
Big Baby brings a great deal of energy to the team, and Garnett showed how energy can "change the culture" of a team.
Plus, Big Baby averaged almost 16 points and 6 rebounds during the playoffs, including 5 games of 20+ points.  How can you say he'll have to fight for minutes?  He's proven himself in the playoff when the games count the most!

First, he didn't prove himself as a 3, so that should go out the window.  Second, he beat out the likes of Mikki Moore for minutes.  Third, he played 35+ mpg.  There's a lot of 4s in this league who could put up 16 and 6 in 35 mpg. 

Except that Baby did it against elite competition (starters) in the playoffs.

His rebounding rate didn't climb though, it was the same whether he played 15 or 35 minutes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisgl01.html

Although his defense got significantly worse as his minutes climbed.  He was one of the fastest rotators on the team early in the season, but as they started playing him starters minutes, and asked more of him on offense, he became a very lazy defender.

I am very excited to see Baby play with the energy he showed in his first season and a half on defense, and with him improved jumper on offense at the same time.  We have never seen Baby with that complete a game.  I am hoping we can see it this season.

[Jon]

I think Big Baby should eventually start for the C's at #3, moving Pierce to #2 (he plays like a guard, anyway) and have Ray Allen come off the bench as 6th man (instant offense).
Big Baby brings a great deal of energy to the team, and Garnett showed how energy can "change the culture" of a team.
Plus, Big Baby averaged almost 16 points and 6 rebounds during the playoffs, including 5 games of 20+ points.  How can you say he'll have to fight for minutes?  He's proven himself in the playoff when the games count the most!

First, he didn't prove himself as a 3, so that should go out the window.  Second, he beat out the likes of Mikki Moore for minutes.  Third, he played 35+ mpg.  There's a lot of 4s in this league who could put up 16 and 6 in 35 mpg. 

Except that Baby did it against elite competition (starters) in the playoffs.

His rebounding rate didn't climb though, it was the same whether he played 15 or 35 minutes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisgl01.html

Furthermore, while I like Baby, the most valuable thing that he did in the playoffs was hit open 18-footers.  While that certainly isn't a small accomplishment for a big man, it's hardly something that becomes harder to do against elite competition.  

But this all digresses.  As I said in a post above, this is a minutes thing even more than a talent thing.  We can all agree to disagree about how good Baby is.  However, the facts of the matter are these: KG is playing 30 mpg, Perk is playing 27, and Wallace is playing 20.  That's low.  Those will not be the minutes they'll play come the playoffs.  Even with just a moderate 5 mpg jump for each (35 mpg for KG, 32 mpg for Perk, and 25 mpg for Wallace), they'll only be 4 minutes left at the 4/5 spots.  

So the reality is not only that there isn't enough minutes for both of them, it's that there likely isn't minutes for either of them come playoff time.  

[moiso]

It's going to be strange when everyone is going to wish Wallace were in as good shape as Baby is.  Baby is high energy, Wallace looks like he just came back after a 3 year retirement.  Derrick Coleman comes to mind.

[Fafnir]

It's going to be strange when everyone is going to wish Wallace were in as good shape as Baby is.  Baby is high energy, Wallace looks like he just came back after a 3 year retirement.  Derrick Coleman comes to mind.

Yeah, sadly I don't see Sheed getting into too much better shape this year.

[moiso]

It's going to be strange when everyone is going to wish Wallace were in as good shape as Baby is.  Baby is high energy, Wallace looks like he just came back after a 3 year retirement.  Derrick Coleman comes to mind.

Yeah, sadly I don't see Sheed getting into too much better shape this year.

Me either.  If you listen to some of the national broadcast teams they repeatedly talk about Sheed being out of shape and that being the reason he has been standing there and jacking up 3's the last few years.  I also read(but didn't see) that after the Orlando game he took off his shirt and revealed a spare tire.  Sorry for getting off topic.

[Fafnir]

It's going to be strange when everyone is going to wish Wallace were in as good shape as Baby is.  Baby is high energy, Wallace looks like he just came back after a 3 year retirement.  Derrick Coleman comes to mind.

Yeah, sadly I don't see Sheed getting into too much better shape this year.

Me either.  If you listen to some of the national broadcast teams they repeatedly talk about Sheed being out of shape and that being the reason he has been standing there and jacking up 3's the last few years.  I also read(but didn't see) that after the Orlando game he took off his shirt and revealed a spare tire.  Sorry for getting off topic.

Talking about a PF being overweight in a BBD thread? Close enough to the topic for me .

[ScoobyDoo]

Agreed Jon re playoff minutes. Most likely, two out of the three ( Sheed, Baby and Shelden ) won't see much time come playoffs with perk and KG eating up most of them.

But, I do always believe you cannot have enough good bigs beacuse:

During the regualr season:
1. Helps keep the starters fresh. We saw how difficult it was on Ray and Paul with a depleted team last year.

During the playoffs:
1. Foul trouble can be an issue. For example, when we played Orlando Perk got 5 fouls in 14 minutes ( which I think is Bullsh!t) because he should be allowed to bang with Howard, who is one of the more dirty players in the league with all his elbows. Nonetheless, in that game for example, it would have been great to have Baby avail, who can also really bang with Howard. I don't think Shelden could at the same level as baby.

2. Re Banging...it will be critical to have Baby behind Perk at PF and C, to come in and trow down if say, Orlando goes with Howard and Bass together. He just provides another and very different physical option. Gives us alot more depth. Shelden gives us more length at the back up PF, Baby that raw power.

I am very excited to see us with a full compliment of players.

And you never know, it may turn out that Sheldon and Baby end up creating a very nice combo together off the bench at C & PF.

It will be interesting to see if Baby paris better with Sheed or Shelden.

Re Sheed, shame to think that, being paid $5Mil a year and with access to some of the best trainers and dietitians in the world, he can't get himself in shape. Never understood that with players.       

[Jon]

Agreed Jon re playoff minutes. Most likely, two out of the three ( Sheed, Baby and Shelden ) won't see much time come playoffs with perk and KG eating up most of them.

But, I do always believe you cannot have enough good bigs beacuse:

During the regualr season:
1. Helps keep the starters fresh. We saw how difficult it was on Ray and Paul with a depleted team last year.

During the playoffs:
1. Foul trouble can be an issue. For example, when we played Orlando Perk got 5 fouls in 14 minutes ( which I think is Bullsh!t) because he should be allowed to bang with Howard, who is one of the more dirty players in the league with all his elbows. Nonetheless, in that game for example, it would have been great to have Baby avail, who can also really bang with Howard. I don't think Shelden could at the same level as baby.

2. Re Banging...it will be critical to have Baby behind Perk at PF and C, to come in and trow down if say, Orlando goes with Howard and Bass together. He just provides another and very different physical option. Gives us alot more depth. Shelden gives us more length at the back up PF, Baby that raw power.

I am very excited to see us with a full compliment of players.

And you never know, it may turn out that Sheldon and Baby end up creating a very nice combo together off the bench at C & PF.

It will be interesting to see if Baby paris better with Sheed or Shelden.

Re Sheed, shame to think that, being paid $5Mil a year and with access to some of the best trainers and dietitians in the world, he can't get himself in shape. Never understood that with players.       

I largely agree with what you said.  However, I'm not in love with the idea of having us match up with other teams.  My feeling is that when you're as good as us, you make other teams match up with us.  While I agree Wallace isn't there yet, I can't imagine that over the next 60 games or so he isn't going to get in better shape and fit in even better.  That said, if the Magic bring Howard and Bass in I see no reason why we don't stick with Sheed.  First, Sheed's played stellar defense all year, so I'm not convinced Baby offers more.  Secondly, the while Sheed has to match up with Howard, Howard's also going to be forced to have to deal with Sheed hovering on the perimeter, which should throw a major wrench in Orlando's defensive schemes and open up the lane for Rondo and Pierce. 

[ScoobyDoo]

Jon, good points, agreed. Tommy point re the comment of Sheed being able to pull Howard out of the lane which will be a major problem for Orlando's defense. I didn't think of that.And if they switch off Howard onto Baby or shelden we can come at them with KG/Sheed and every offenseive play whoever Howard is guarding ( KG or Sheed) that guys goes to the perimeter ( Howard has to follow), the other in the block...great point. 

Also agree we should make teams match up with us but sometimes they'll throw a lineup out there that's being ultra physical...and in those cases I really like having another Perk like guy coming off the bench. I like having that muscle, if needed.

Perk and Baby provide that
Sheed and KG provide some muscle but more finesse.
Shelden > kind of in between. Not as strong as Baby or Perk but still a banger.
Scal > the ace in the hole.Clearly.