I'm done with Rondo

[Kiorrik]

It's par for the course anytime the C's appear to struggle (11-4).  Remember when they lost something like 7 of 9 and 6 in row at 1 point in 07/08.  Most Boston fans in general are much more vocal when the C's are losing.  I normally take breaks from this site during those times for my own sanity. When they go on winning streaks this place becomes a funeral.  Posts counts go way down.

Well, whatever happens, I'm here for better or for worse.

... not that I think I can make a difference, but yeh. Hmm. Right.

[Fafnir]

LOL@the people saying this team is disappointing. Guys, in case you haven't notice, we're a half game back from 1st place. Not even 20 games in, yet. Chill.

A lot of the blog seemed to think this team would be similar to the 2007-2008 Celtics. Dominant from start to finish of the regular season, but the last 8 games of average play has freaked a lot of them out.

*shrug* I just want the team to come out of their shooting slump.

They are #3 in the league with 48% shooting.  If KG has his strength back by March the C's will be very good shape heading into the playoffs.  It's a long season and a lot of teams will go through their own issues. I'm just hoping for a full roster come playoff time.

BBD will be coming back soon to save the C's...

In the last five games

FG%       3Pt FG%
47.6%      25.0%
46.3%      35.3%
34.5%      10.5%
41.7%      40.0%
48.7%      25.9%

We haven't shot that poorly from the field mainly because we've gone inside quite a bit for better shots as we've struggled from 3. But jumpshooting wise we're in a slump overall as a team.

[RAcker]

[Birdbrain]

LOL@the people saying this team is disappointing. Guys, in case you haven't notice, we're a half game back from 1st place. Not even 20 games in, yet. Chill.

A lot of the blog seemed to think this team would be similar to the 2007-2008 Celtics. Dominant from start to finish of the regular season, but the last 8 games of average play has freaked a lot of them out.

*shrug* I just want the team to come out of their shooting slump.

They are #3 in the league with 48% shooting.  If KG has his strength back by March the C's will be very good shape heading into the playoffs.  It's a long season and a lot of teams will go through their own issues. I'm just hoping for a full roster come playoff time.

BBD will be coming back soon to save the C's...

In the last five games

FG%       3Pt FG%
47.6%      25.0%
46.3%      35.3%
34.5%      10.5%
41.7%      40.0%
48.7%      25.9%

We haven't shot that poorly from the field mainly because we've gone inside quite a bit for better shots as we've struggled from 3. But jumpshooting wise we're in a slump overall as a team.

Agreed and jump shooting comes and goes.  And when it comes they'll be beating teams by 20 again.

[nickagneta]

Coming to the forum late here and I'm not sure if this is a thread about Rondo or a thread about negativity. Since Rondo is still in the thread title, I'll stick with that.

I'm a huge Rondo fan and have been for a long time and, let's face it, Rondo criticism on this blog is not a new thing. I remember when it was myself and one other poster, MikeDfromNP, defending the little guy to the hilt while everyone else was sticking it to him because he was never going to be able to be a PG for a championship team.

So with all that said, I have to say, I'm disappointed in Rondo's overall game this year. His free throw shooting is beyond bad, being worse than any year he has ever had. His defense seems to be stuck in polar opposite ends of outstanding and pathetic with very little in between. And his offense is sporadically fabulous to head scratching.

So I guess my biggest criticism is the man's lack of consistency and that is probably what is driving people nuts. They see the outstanding and question why we can't have that part of him 90%-100% of the time instead of 40%-60% of the time.

And that frustration in the inconsistency and the fact that the Celtics just made the irrevocable, at least for the next 2 years, decision to make Rondo their PG and future franchise cornerstone, is what is leading to most of the unfairly, unwarranted blaming of Rondo for all that ails this team. He's not. He's part of the problem. He's not THE problem.

But, he is also a very large part of the solution. Ray, KG, Sheed, and House will be consistently inconsistent for their own reasons Ray and Sheed, age and outside games, House, an outside game, KG, the knee. But Rondo, Pierce and Perk are the biggest solution to the inconsistency problem of this team. They have to come to play every night and be great every night. If they do, they will lead the C's and make this team able to live with the inconsistencies of their other players.

But Rondo has to start become more consistent with everything. His polar opposite type of games within games has to stop. If Rondo can do that, the negativity on this site might wane.

As one note on the trade threads, I don't see them as negativity but creativity in trying to help the team. Is it negative to want to trade Ray Allen if what you think you are doing is helping the team long term? I don't see it that way and never look at trade threads as negative. I can get sick of them and especially really bad trades or unrealistic trades. But I don't see them as negative.

[BballTim]

I think the problem many people have that pushes them to extreme comments, and yes often very negative ones, is the REASON that Rondo is struggling. It is his lack of EFFORT that is the problem and it doesn't matter what point of the season we are in, what the rest of the team is doing, or how many games we have won or lost at this point. It adds extra insult when he was just given a 5 yr 55 milliion dollar contact based on potential. I seem to recall a certain Mark Blount who was rewarded with a bigger than deserved contract based on upside that really blew up in our face. Rondo has additional skills on the offensive side of the ball that will likely never give him a label like Blount, however the feeling is the same.

 Effort should NEVER be the reason that a player is struggling. No one can say that any other Celtic on that floor is struggling because he isn't giving it 100%. Not KG, not Ray, not even Sheed whose face doesn't always appear he is giving full effort. Defensively, and often when he refuses to attack on offense like he should, Rondo is not giving 100%. For that people have every right to be upset and negative.

But how do we know that the reason why Rondo is struggling is due to lack of effort? And how do we know that every Celtic other than Rondo is giving 100% every time? Isn't that a rather odd assumption to make?

  No doubt because other people on the blog say it. These things take on a life of their own.

I have watched EVERY minute of Rondo's career and don't need "others" telling me that is the case to know Rondo is not giving 100% when he plays lazy defense. Even some on here trying to rebutt my comment and support Rondo are saying he is playing lazy defense but that effort isn't the reason. That is absurd. He has played basketball now for what, 18+ years?! The FIRST thing every coach teaches at 5 years old on defense is getting down into defensive position and staying between your man and the basket. Rondo CHOOSES to not give the effort to play defense how he is physically capable. That is effort. Just like Blount CHOSE to play every now and then. Just like he magically turned into this amazing center every time he lined up against the Celtics for years after that.

People are upset that Rondo is capable of playing great defense but instead takes the easy way out. Defending him only looks like you're his agent or mother not willing to accept reality. Sadly none of you actually believe he is giving his all. It's more important for you to try and prove your side of the argument even if you have to be disingenuous to do it.

  Your authoritative proclamation would be a lot more intimidating if not for the fact that most of the coaches and GMs in the nba think that Rondo's one of the best defensive point guards in the league. Could he be a better defender? Yes, but who couldn't? Could he play his man tighter on every possession? Yes, if he wanted to get in foul trouble every night. I'm not saying he plays his toughest defense on every possession, I'm saying that very few players do, and those are usually players with little responsibility on the offensive end of the court.

[EJPLAYA]

I think the problem many people have that pushes them to extreme comments, and yes often very negative ones, is the REASON that Rondo is struggling. It is his lack of EFFORT that is the problem and it doesn't matter what point of the season we are in, what the rest of the team is doing, or how many games we have won or lost at this point. It adds extra insult when he was just given a 5 yr 55 milliion dollar contact based on potential. I seem to recall a certain Mark Blount who was rewarded with a bigger than deserved contract based on upside that really blew up in our face. Rondo has additional skills on the offensive side of the ball that will likely never give him a label like Blount, however the feeling is the same.

 Effort should NEVER be the reason that a player is struggling. No one can say that any other Celtic on that floor is struggling because he isn't giving it 100%. Not KG, not Ray, not even Sheed whose face doesn't always appear he is giving full effort. Defensively, and often when he refuses to attack on offense like he should, Rondo is not giving 100%. For that people have every right to be upset and negative.

But how do we know that the reason why Rondo is struggling is due to lack of effort? And how do we know that every Celtic other than Rondo is giving 100% every time? Isn't that a rather odd assumption to make?

  No doubt because other people on the blog say it. These things take on a life of their own.

I have watched EVERY minute of Rondo's career and don't need "others" telling me that is the case to know Rondo is not giving 100% when he plays lazy defense. Even some on here trying to rebutt my comment and support Rondo are saying he is playing lazy defense but that effort isn't the reason. That is absurd. He has played basketball now for what, 18+ years?! The FIRST thing every coach teaches at 5 years old on defense is getting down into defensive position and staying between your man and the basket. Rondo CHOOSES to not give the effort to play defense how he is physically capable. That is effort. Just like Blount CHOSE to play every now and then. Just like he magically turned into this amazing center every time he lined up against the Celtics for years after that.

People are upset that Rondo is capable of playing great defense but instead takes the easy way out. Defending him only looks like you're his agent or mother not willing to accept reality. Sadly none of you actually believe he is giving his all. It's more important for you to try and prove your side of the argument even if you have to be disingenuous to do it.

  Your authoritative proclamation would be a lot more intimidating if not for the fact that most of the coaches and GMs in the nba think that Rondo's one of the best defensive point guards in the league. Could he be a better defender? Yes, but who couldn't? Could he play his man tighter on every possession? Yes, if he wanted to get in foul trouble every night. I'm not saying he plays his toughest defense on every possession, I'm saying that very few players do, and those are usually players with little responsibility on the offensive end of the court.

There was no intent to be intimidating and you know it. Once again misdirecting the discussion because you can't honestly disagree that the guy isn't giving 100% effort on the defensive side of the ball. If you think that all the GM's and coaches in the league have watched every single minute of Rondo's career then you're crazy. What they see are highlights of when he CAN be the best defensive PG in the league. That is what is so maddening. The kid could be the best overall PG in the game but just won't do what it takes.

Keeping your man in front of you is NOT going to get him into foul trouble, in fact likely the opposite. He gets a fair amount of fouls reaching in, and he has the foot speed to be close enough to his guy to not give a wide open shot, and yet still slide over to prevent someone driving. It's not that difficult. He just wants the 1 out of 10 plays where he will poke it out and get the steal even though it means the other 9 his guy blows past and creates a defensive breakdown for the rest of the 4. It's the lazy easy way out. Plain and simple. You can save your response though because it's pretty clear you have no intention of being honest about his play.

[Kiorrik]

Quoting stopped being useful about a hundred posts ago

That said, I think Rondo's trying, but just doesn't agree with what we're saying. I think he's thinking that those steals matter more.

[Fafnir]

because you can't honestly disagree that the guy isn't giving 100% effort on the defensive side of the ball

Who does give 100% in any aspect of the game EJPLAYA?

Also I don't think accusing another poster of dishonesty is a good way to counter his points. Also declaring you get the "last word" with something like this is always a questionable move.

Plain and simple. You can save your response though because it's pretty clear you have no intention of being honest about his play.

If you do decided to continue to participate in this thread avoid attacking other posters, consider this your warning.

[BballTim]

I think the problem many people have that pushes them to extreme comments, and yes often very negative ones, is the REASON that Rondo is struggling. It is his lack of EFFORT that is the problem and it doesn't matter what point of the season we are in, what the rest of the team is doing, or how many games we have won or lost at this point. It adds extra insult when he was just given a 5 yr 55 milliion dollar contact based on potential. I seem to recall a certain Mark Blount who was rewarded with a bigger than deserved contract based on upside that really blew up in our face. Rondo has additional skills on the offensive side of the ball that will likely never give him a label like Blount, however the feeling is the same.

 Effort should NEVER be the reason that a player is struggling. No one can say that any other Celtic on that floor is struggling because he isn't giving it 100%. Not KG, not Ray, not even Sheed whose face doesn't always appear he is giving full effort. Defensively, and often when he refuses to attack on offense like he should, Rondo is not giving 100%. For that people have every right to be upset and negative.

But how do we know that the reason why Rondo is struggling is due to lack of effort? And how do we know that every Celtic other than Rondo is giving 100% every time? Isn't that a rather odd assumption to make?

  No doubt because other people on the blog say it. These things take on a life of their own.

I have watched EVERY minute of Rondo's career and don't need "others" telling me that is the case to know Rondo is not giving 100% when he plays lazy defense. Even some on here trying to rebutt my comment and support Rondo are saying he is playing lazy defense but that effort isn't the reason. That is absurd. He has played basketball now for what, 18+ years?! The FIRST thing every coach teaches at 5 years old on defense is getting down into defensive position and staying between your man and the basket. Rondo CHOOSES to not give the effort to play defense how he is physically capable. That is effort. Just like Blount CHOSE to play every now and then. Just like he magically turned into this amazing center every time he lined up against the Celtics for years after that.

People are upset that Rondo is capable of playing great defense but instead takes the easy way out. Defending him only looks like you're his agent or mother not willing to accept reality. Sadly none of you actually believe he is giving his all. It's more important for you to try and prove your side of the argument even if you have to be disingenuous to do it.

  Your authoritative proclamation would be a lot more intimidating if not for the fact that most of the coaches and GMs in the nba think that Rondo's one of the best defensive point guards in the league. Could he be a better defender? Yes, but who couldn't? Could he play his man tighter on every possession? Yes, if he wanted to get in foul trouble every night. I'm not saying he plays his toughest defense on every possession, I'm saying that very few players do, and those are usually players with little responsibility on the offensive end of the court.

There was no intent to be intimidating and you know it. Once again misdirecting the discussion because you can't honestly disagree that the guy isn't giving 100% effort on the defensive side of the ball. If you think that all the GM's and coaches in the league have watched every single minute of Rondo's career then you're crazy. What they see are highlights of when he CAN be the best defensive PG in the league. That is what is so maddening. The kid could be the best overall PG in the game but just won't do what it takes.

Keeping your man in front of you is NOT going to get him into foul trouble, in fact likely the opposite. He gets a fair amount of fouls reaching in, and he has the foot speed to be close enough to his guy to not give a wide open shot, and yet still slide over to prevent someone driving. It's not that difficult. He just wants the 1 out of 10 plays where he will poke it out and get the steal even though it means the other 9 his guy blows past and creates a defensive breakdown for the rest of the 4. It's the lazy easy way out. Plain and simple. You can save your response though because it's pretty clear you have no intention of being honest about his play.

  For starters calling people who disagree with you dishonest is pretty pathetic. Beyond that, though, I've agreed that Rondo doesn't put full effort into his defense on every possession, I've just been trying to explain to you that most players don't. But, being totally honest, I think your claim that he lets his guy get past him on purpose all the time is nonsense. And I seriously doubt that you're that much more of an expert on Rondo than all of the coaches and GMs in the league.

[celticmaestro]

Why remove my post and not Chris's?

A public explanation would be nice as to why a mod can call a poster an "elitist jerk" and get away with it.

Am I not entitled to my opinion? Like I said, I feel as though most of the mods are elitist jerks? What of it? Lead by example, mods. If I can't say it and get away with it why can you?

If you want to move this post and start a new thread, by all means do that. But removing it only serves to prove my point. You're all as dodgy as the Bush administration. Not something to be proud of.

[Redz]

Why remove my post and not Chris's?

A public explanation would be nice as to why a mod can call a poster an "elitist jerk" and get away with it.

Am I not entitled to my opinion? Like I said, I feel as though most of the mods are elitist jerks? What of it? Lead by example, mods. If I can't say it and get away with it why can you?

If you want to move this post and start a new thread, by all means do that. But removing it only serves to prove my point. You're all as dodgy as the Bush administration. Not something to be proud of.

CM, before you jump to conclusions and pour gas on the fire, know a couple of things

1) Chris' comments were not something we're proud of and are being dealt with internally (read: not publicly) as they are in the case of any other infraction).

2) We're having some issues with some of the "upgrades" SBN made and some posts (not just in this thread) have been lost.  Make of it what you will...I know it sounds like a bunch of bull, but we're pretty frustrated by the way its making things appear.

[wdleehi]

Why remove my post and not Chris's?

A public explanation would be nice as to why a mod can call a poster an "elitist jerk" and get away with it.

Am I not entitled to my opinion? Like I said, I feel as though most of the mods are elitist jerks? What of it? Lead by example, mods. If I can't say it and get away with it why can you?

If you want to move this post and start a new thread, by all means do that. But removing it only serves to prove my point. You're all as dodgy as the Bush administration. Not something to be proud of.

A staff member did try to split this topic but with the recent changes to the forum, another error was discovered.  The split info was lost.  

As for the staff hiding things, since when.  We have whole threads with posters making comments on what we do, and we never hide it.  (and if we wanted to hide things, the first thing hidden would have been that post)


The staff never does public explanation of any issue dealing with a member and any rules infraction.  


But please, continue trying to make this site a war between "staff" and the "rest".  It really makes this site so much better when you try and create different groups.  

So far we have the "Mods" and "Us"

the "Negative posters" and the "Positive posters"


Did I forget any?  

Oh yea, blast from the past

"Doc haters" vs "Doc appologists"


Meanwhile this post is doing nothing for us.  There for I am going to lock it.


If you want to talk about Rondo, feel free to start a new thread.


If you want to talk about the staff, feel free to continue in the tread already in place to do that.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=4046.0