I'm done with Rondo

[Bahku]

This is a temporary funk, and I'm honestly not very worried about it ... they'll do what they need to and be back on top very soon. (TP)

That's your opinion though.  There are a lot of people on here who clearly feel (or at least fear) that it is not the case, and want to discuss that.  I don't see how complaining about people having a different opinion than you helps anything.

Isn't that what a blog is about ... stating our opinions and discussing our differences? Of course people are entitled to their negative opinions, but so am I entitled to my opinion that there's too much negativity, and a need for more optimism. That's what most of the people in this thread are saying: "Let's be more positive and balance all this negativity out" ... I would think such a viewpoint would be welcomed, as a good discussion takes views from both sides.

See, that looks like an attempt to manipulate the emotions of these people (and I include myself here), even if that´s not your intention (and I don´t think it is).

When people predict we can´t win it all with our current play, the other side says "It´s way too early in the season to tell".

So the first party argues "But they play terrible", which is just stating the obvious, imo. And the optimists say "We´re 11-4, why do people complain?".

People who have a negative opinion about the state of this team can be called "whiney" and it rains TPs. Maybe some of the optimists should accept that not every negative post comes from a bad fan, but from a concerned fan.

Sorry, but I take exception ... NOWHERE did I say being negative makes a "bad" fan, nor would I EVER ... I merely stated that there are people here on both


sides, and that EACH side is entitled to their opinion. I also NEVER used the word "whiney" or any derogatory terms to describe those who are critical or love to talk about trades, I merely said that I didn't like seeing so many negative and "trade" threads ... that's my opinion, like others have their opinion to be negative. There are ALWAYS two sides to a discussion, and that's what a blog is about ... you may disagree with what I said, and you're entitled to, but please don't put words in my mouth.

I didn´t mean you secifically. I clearly spoke about "some members of parties".
Only the first paragraph was direct at you personally.

I´m sorry if you feel attacked.

Not at all, I just assumed such because mine was the last quote you used, and that usually infers that  that's the person you're addressing ... forgive my assumption. I've just seen soooooooooo much negative lately, and I frankly think a little positivity is needed, (as well as feeling it's necessary to have a balance, if possible). I think most of the optimists on this thread are just as concerned, (speaking for myself also), and that it's that very concern that motivates us to be more positive. We're all in the same boat, just coming from different directions, and hoping our beloved Celtics will turn this around. Good discussion, though ... TP, Casperian.

[xmuscularghandix]

I'm not done with him but he needs to start playing like a 10 million dollar player.

He isn't a 10 million dollar player.

[Casperian]

Not at all, I just assumed such because mine was the last quote you used, and that usually infers that  that's the person you're addressing ... forgive my assumption. I've just seen soooooooooo much negative lately, and I frankly think a little positivity is needed, (as well as feeling it's necessary to have a balance, if possible). I think most of the optimists on this thread are just as concerned, (speaking for myself also), and that it's that very concern that motivates us to be more positive. We're all in the same boat, just coming from different directions, and hoping our beloved Celtics will turn this around. Good discussion, though ... TP, Casperian.

Back at you.
I think there is just as much hope on side of the pessimists as there is concern on the side of the optimists.

All the pessimists need is to be convinced, and no argument, only the team is able to do that.

[chief3233]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI3vIFWC8tc

Here is something to make us back off on "being done with Rondo."

[BballTim]

10 minutes ago I was asking myself what the hell is wrong with rondo. Is he sick? Is he hurt? Did he just break up with his girl? Or is he just being lazy? On defense it looked like he was just letting people go by him and on offense he was no where to be seen.

The past 5 minutes have been pretty impressive though as he has picked it up, so I'm not sure what to think

See above post.

He's 23 with a very special, very unique game. That's all there is to know about Rondo.

That's the frustrating part. We all know what he is capable of. He could be an elite pg, but he needs to stop showing only flashes of brilliance. Show it ALL game!

  It would also benefit the team greatly if Paul or Ray or KG could be brilliant the whole game. Unfortunately it rarely happens.

[BballTim]

Rondo was pretty stinky in that 3rd quarter, but he was great in the 4th and solid in the first half.  Strangely he ended up with totals almost identical to his season averages: 10 pts, 7 assists, 4 boards, 2 steals and 3 turnovers on 50+% shooting, basically just one bad pass more than what he's been giving us this year.

Yes he can give us more, but the offense isn't really geared that way.  

The main area for him to improve is on D. He could do a bit better crashing the boards and keeping focused in our zone defense, as well as a bit more solid man-to-man, but I haven't been as disappointed with him in this area as most.  I think as such a scrutinized player, his defensive failings are being over-emphasized.

Again, I was at the game, where was his solid first half? I believe he ended it with 2 points, 2 or 3 assists and 2 rebounds. And at least once, the 19-year-old rookie starting point guard for Philly blew by him like he was standing still. Rondo played hard for 10 minutes tonight. And yes, he was the difference in the game. But if he gives us 25 hard minutes a night this team will be blowing out scrub teams like Philly and the Knicks..

  So Rondo gets beat off the dribble "at least once" in a half? We should trade him ASAP.

[Kiorrik]

I'm just getting started with Rondo.

Rajon Rondo, to use Doc's words, has been "phenomenal" in stretches. All that he needs to do is to start contending for 24 more minutes a game. I believe right now he pushes the ball for somewhere in between 12 and 24 minutes. I don't mind him slacking for a quarter, just for him to watch the opposition and start seeing the gaps in their D as he tests it, as long as he picks it up before we're behind 10 points.

As for his shot, which is worth mentioning again imo; I think his willingness to take shots every now and then is really good. Especially the ones that are important, the shots he's been taking at the end of quarters. They mightn't have been the -right- shots, they mightn't have been off plays that have been drawn up for him, but at least he's hoisting them up. And that's a willingness we haven't seen yet.

Which leads us to his 'form' and shot percentage. The fact that he's a lousy shooter (at best) right now can only change if he actually takes shots. You need to be fairly coldblooded to make every shot and you can just tell that Rondo's biggest problem is his nerves. Everyone knows that a true shooter knows his next shot will be all net. Rondo however, thinks his next shot might miss. The aforementioned lack of faith in his own capabilities make him inconsistent.

Consider this:

Have you seen him shoot those trickshots? Behind the backboard? Weird falling-forward-spinning-to-the-backboard shots?

He has a knack for those. They always come very, very close to being true, or they actually are true. You never see him throw those totally off the mark. I believe that's because he shoots them with confidence. He takes them when he *has* to, when he's forced into a difficult position and can't do anything else but "trick it up".

Now, if he had the same confidence when shooting a normal jumpshot... I think he would be awesome.

I honestly believe, if we give him enough time to adjust and let him take those shots, he'll start hitting them before the end of the year.




.edit:

Defense-wise, I think Rondo has improved greatly. When he actually tries, he's really good at keeping in front of his man.

Note the "when he tries" bit.

He seems to get 'tired' quite soon, which results in lack of attention and he'll just go for the steal as soon as he notices a fake, instead of adjusting his own movement to keep in front. I believe it's part of his instinct, which is rather hard to get rid of. I've seen him improve though. Others have too (through I read that Danny and Doc for agree on this, for example.)

[kenmaine]

the negativity around this place absolutely sux lately.  the team is in a slump and people are acting as if it is all or nothing.  its ok to be critical, but people around here are making irrational posts, like it is life or death with each game.  not to mention the team playing less than 15 games this season.  rip me if you all want to, but it sucks around here!

TP4U, im actually very close to taking a hiatus from the blog. The outright negativity and viciousness against everyone even when we win is a big let down.

Every time i visit, the forums are exactly like they are now, 6 bash topics, and the one positive topic " I got a feeling" is being invaded as well.

People are of course entitled to criticize and the team is not playing anything approaching championship basketball, but there's no discussion going on right now, only ripping down and negativity.

Frankly it's getting to be a chore rather than fun to check the forums. I come by to see what my friends are saying, but for every one of those posts there's 20 "OMG this team sucks, trade everyone!" posts.

What he said!
I'm mostly lurking these days, but I LOVE Rondo's game and have since his rookie year. I've been on CB since 07, around the time of the big losing streak, and things do seem awfully negative these days. Maybe it's just part of the general malaise in the air, or maybe C's fans are a little spoiled now.
Anyway, I have a feeling that if CB had existed in the 50's, it would have been full of Cousy bashing- "showoff, unforced turnovers, poor shooter, ballhog, lousy defense", etc.
So, yes, Rondo is not perfect, but there are a few other players on the team that are way underperforming and seem to get a free pass. I mean, if his main job as a pg is to pass the ball to shooters and they just keep missing shots, maybe it's not all his fault!
Not saying that all is well and we shouldn't be concerned- it does feel like something is missing this year. IMO it's that we have too many 3pt shooters and no real inside game other than PP.

And off topic, Happy Thanksgiving everyone

[Roy Hobbs]

rip me if you all want to, but it sucks around here!

Not to single you out in particular, d_l, but I'm getting as frustrated with the "Celticsblog sucks" posts as I am with the negativity.  If people are upset with a perceived negative vibe, I would assume the best way to address this would be with positive posts.  However, very few of the posters calling for positivity are, in fact, starting positive threads or responding to negativity by giving their own positive viewpoint.  Rather, there's a lot of criticizing of fellow posters, which is rarely productive and always frowned upon.

[Kiorrik]

Short version of Roys post:

He's being negative about people being negative about people being negative.

[ACF]

I love you, Raj!

[LB3533]

10 minutes ago I was asking myself what the hell is wrong with rondo. Is he sick? Is he hurt? Did he just break up with his girl? Or is he just being lazy? On defense it looked like he was just letting people go by him and on offense he was no where to be seen.

The past 5 minutes have been pretty impressive though as he has picked it up, so I'm not sure what to think

See above post.

He's 23 with a very special, very unique game. That's all there is to know about Rondo.

That's the frustrating part. We all know what he is capable of. He could be an elite pg, but he needs to stop showing only flashes of brilliance. Show it ALL game!

  It would also benefit the team greatly if Paul or Ray or KG could be brilliant the whole game. Unfortunately it rarely happens.

Pierce has been brilliant this whole season, more so over the last couple games.

[pengaloo]

We can't give up on Rondo only a month into the season when he's given us 3 years of improvement. Granted, he's currently playing in spurts, and often looks confused out there, but I think that's because he's dealing with a lot of changes... being the #2 guy on the team instead of the #4 guy, his jump shot, his free throw woes, his on the court/off the the court leadership, changing his pregame routine so that he arrives hours before tip off, teams game planning against him, etc. He's a smart, mentally tough kid... give him some time to figure everything out.

[RAcker]

10 minutes ago I was asking myself what the hell is wrong with rondo. Is he sick? Is he hurt? Did he just break up with his girl? Or is he just being lazy? On defense it looked like he was just letting people go by him and on offense he was no where to be seen.

The past 5 minutes have been pretty impressive though as he has picked it up, so I'm not sure what to think

See above post.

He's 23 with a very special, very unique game. That's all there is to know about Rondo.

That's the frustrating part. We all know what he is capable of. He could be an elite pg, but he needs to stop showing only flashes of brilliance. Show it ALL game!

  It would also benefit the team greatly if Paul or Ray or KG could be brilliant the whole game. Unfortunately it rarely happens.

That's a good point.  For all of Rondo's faults, everyone on this team has had an extended slump of sorts early in this season (except maybe for Paul) and we're still 11-4.

Give it time.  If we still see sloppiness in February, then we can start picking things apart.

[BballTim]

10 minutes ago I was asking myself what the hell is wrong with rondo. Is he sick? Is he hurt? Did he just break up with his girl? Or is he just being lazy? On defense it looked like he was just letting people go by him and on offense he was no where to be seen.

The past 5 minutes have been pretty impressive though as he has picked it up, so I'm not sure what to think

See above post.

He's 23 with a very special, very unique game. That's all there is to know about Rondo.

That's the frustrating part. We all know what he is capable of. He could be an elite pg, but he needs to stop showing only flashes of brilliance. Show it ALL game!

  It would also benefit the team greatly if Paul or Ray or KG could be brilliant the whole game. Unfortunately it rarely happens.

Pierce has been brilliant this whole season, more so over the last couple games.

  He was brilliant against Minny, Phoenix and Indy? How about against Orlando?