Ken Rosenthal on WEEI

[Rondo2287]

Thats not true, there are supposedly a bunch of teams that dont think Buccholz will pan out and think that the sox have overrated him. 

Ok, there has been one quote about one baseball excecutive who has said Buchholz is a mid rotation starter at best which was in todays Globe in a story by Tony Maz. But lets just look at what has been reported, The Indians and REd Sox have been talking for months, acoording to Gammons and Ken Rosenthal the Indians have offered Victor Martinez for Buchholz, Red Sox said no. Now the Blue Jays have told the REd Sox it will take Buchholz/Casey Kelly+ another top prospect for them to get Halladay according to the Providence Journal.

So the teams of 2 of the 3 players the Sox are going after have said Buchholz is needed for a deal to be done, not Bard. Doesnt that tell you that Buch, not Bard is their most valuable chip?

No that tells me Bard has been made unavailable so people arent asking for him

[Big_Matt34]

No that tells me Bard has been made unavailable so people arent asking for him

Lol, do you think the Sox telling the Indians saying that they wont deal Buchholz for Victor has stopped Shapiro from trying to get Clay? It doesnt matter if the Sox tell them he is untouchable, the other teams will try to get them. Thats why the Jays are still talking to the Phillies even though Philly  supposedly made Happ and Drabek untouchable. They are still trying to get them.

Bard is as dominant a reliever as there is right now but it comes down to this, would you take a great starter or a great reliever? Id think that most team would take the starter, not saying either Buchholz or Bard will be that good, but thats what the REd Sox or any team who gets them would hope they can be.

Now i will say that in a deal for Halladay id rather give up Buchholz than Bard because you get a starter to replace Buchholz while Bard is likely Paps replacement whenever he is gone. But as far as to other teams, i think theyd prefer Buchholz to Bard.

[winsomme]

I still think the guy to target is Hanley.

FL needs starting pitching. Buchholz would step right into their starting rotation.

Buchholz, Bowden and Lowrie for Hanley.

If FLA doesn't want Lowrie, I'm pretty sure I remember the Sox have a quality, slick fielding SS prospect in AA.

Buchholz/Bowden/Lowrie isnt enough for Hanley. Itd take a package of Buchholz/Bard/Lars Anderson/Yamaico Navarro or so to get Hanley and Theo would never do that. Also that "slick" fielding SS in AA is Argenis Diaz who the Sox traded for Adam Laroche, and he had made 16 errors so far this year while having trouble with the easiest of plays.

Last night Ed Price of Fanhouse who is one of the better mlb writers said the REd Sox are telling people they are working on a deal bigger than getting Halladay and speculated that it could be Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez. Halladay/A-gon/Victor Martinez are the names that ive heard most, below ill have post what id think would probably take for any of these players. Maybe not these exact players but the type of package it would take

Halladay- Buchholz/Casey Kelly/Ryan Kalish/Yamaico Navarro
Adrian Gonzalez- Buchholz/Lars Anderson/Bard/Ryan Kalish
Victor Martinez- Buchholz/medium prospect or Bard/Bowden/Lars Anderson

A-Gon would cost a ton because ontop of being th Padres best player he makes nothing over the next 3 years, i doubt he gets moved. If they could id rather the Sox hold onto Redick rather than Lars, Redick is only a bit older than Lars and is putting up a .870 OPS in AA as a CF though he is playing some left and right. Id also like to see the Sox try to hold onto Ryan Westmoreland, i think he will be their best position prospect since Hanley, has plus power/plus speed/plus fielding and arm even though he has had to DH so far this year comnig off of surgery.

If i had to bet id think Victor Martinez is the most likely, like A-Gon his swing was made for Fenway, he can play multiple positions, he is great in the clubhouse, he doesnt make much money this or next year, and most importantly he would cost thel east to get.

I think you are overstating the price tag for Hanley a bit there. maybe they would want Bard instead of Bowden and a better SS prospect than Lowrie.

Diaz may have been the SS prospect, but what about Navarro?

I think Buchholz/Bard/Navarro would certainly be interesting for FLA. and again, take a look at their starting staff. who do they have after Johnson?

as for Victor Martinez, I really don't see how he really boosts our lineup because you have to sit one of our better hitters to get him in the lineup every night he plays...

[Big_Matt34]

I think you are overstating the price tag for Hanley a bit there. maybe they would want Bard instead of Bowden and a better SS prospect than Lowrie.

Diaz may have been the SS prospect, but what about Navarro?

I think Buchholz/Bard/Navarro would certainly be interesting for FLA. again, take a look at their staff. who do they have after Johnson?

as for Victor Martinez, I really don't see how he really boosts our lineup because you have to sit one of our better hitters to get him in the lineup every night he plays...

Hanley is the Marlins star, he is why fans go to the game and he is the only player they can market. They are soon opening a new stadium while selling Hanley as the face of the franchise. It would take an insane package to get him, and as great as he is it would not be worth it.

Navarro is a VERY good SS prospect, is very good in the field and can just flat out hit, career .300+ hitters in the minors with some power, i like him alot and he is already in AA.

As for Victor, he can play catcher some nights, taking the hole in the lineup known as Varitek out, he can DH against tough lefties to give Ortiz nights off, and of course he can play 1B alot and give Lowell and Youk some time off. Id rather have too many good hitters than not enough, imagine going into the playoffs with Lowell and Laroche off the bench from both sides of the plate, thats a problem id like to have.

[winsomme]

I think you are overstating the price tag for Hanley a bit there. maybe they would want Bard instead of Bowden and a better SS prospect than Lowrie.

Diaz may have been the SS prospect, but what about Navarro?

I think Buchholz/Bard/Navarro would certainly be interesting for FLA. again, take a look at their staff. who do they have after Johnson?

as for Victor Martinez, I really don't see how he really boosts our lineup because you have to sit one of our better hitters to get him in the lineup every night he plays...

Hanley is the Marlins star, he is why fans go to the game and he is the only player they can market. They are soon opening a new stadium while selling Hanley as the face of the franchise. It would take an insane package to get him, and as great as he is it would not be worth it.

Navarro is a VERY good SS prospect, is very good in the field and can just flat out hit, career .300+ hitters in the minors with some power, i like him alot and he is already in AA.

As for Victor, he can play catcher some nights, taking the hole in the lineup known as Varitek out, he can DH against tough lefties to give Ortiz nights off, and of course he can play 1B alot and give Lowell and Youk some time off. Id rather have too many good hitters than not enough, imagine going into the playoffs with Lowell and Laroche off the bench from both sides of the plate, thats a problem id like to have.

the hole in our lineup is SS IMO. any night you are sitting Papi, Lowell, or Youk you are taking a potent bat out of the lineup to put a potent bat in.

I really don't think strengthening our bench is what we need. we need an every day player that can hit in the middle of the lineup.

plus, I don't think Lowell is going to take kindly to sitting as much as he would with both LaRoche and Martinez...he was pretty upset at the Sox going after Teixeira

Martinez is a nice bat and like you said a great teammate, but IMO just not at the position we need...

I wouldn't mind having him, but I just don't think we can use him enough to get his true benefit.

[MBz]

Bard is a reliever with no chance of being a starter in this league.  Though he will be a good closer in the future, teams are not looking at him as a key prospect in trades because he'll only pitch 70 innings or so a season.  A guy like that does not have enough value to bring in a big player.