Celtics Dump Vonleh

[Goldstar88]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

Makes sense, I just don't think it's a move that would reap any tangible benefit to us at this point. Both of them are better off in the G-league at this point playing. Unless we're looking for Samanic to take some of Hauser's minutes.

I'm surprised he's only played 4 games...on the RealGM schedule I see him playing a lot more. I guess they separate 2022 from 2023 in the stats?

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleague/teams/Maine-Celtics/64/Schedule/2023

Yeah, he’s played 17 games.  I only mentioned him because he’s young, doing well, and not currently signed by the Celtics.  If they don’t sign him soon, they will likely lose him to another team.

The G-League has some sort of weird system, where the "regular season" just started or something like that.  I don't quite understand it.

They have a mini-tournament prior to the start of the season.  Initial games are played in home markets, but then they converge to Vegas for a few days to have a tournament.  This serves a few purposes:

1) It lets all the scouts go to Vegas to see all the G-league players in one location.

2) Because of #1, this incentivizes players to stick with their G-League clubs through the showcase, since they know there will be a time in December to play in front of every NBA franchise.  Accordingly, early season G-League has stable rosters and an elevated level of competition, which raises its profile as a developmental option.

3) Also, because late-season G-League rosters are so chaotic, winning the showcase says as much about your team as winning the “regular season”, so it’s something to play for.

4) Because all of the NBA is watching the G-League for a few days, they can use the showcase portion of the season to experiment with some rules changes, so the decision-makers watching get to see a lot of basketball with these trial rule changes.

Anyway, that’s why the Showcase exists.  But it’s over now and 10-days start to get signed soon, so if the Celtics are interested in signing Samanic to the big club, they likely have to make that move in the next couple of weeks.

Tp for the informative post. Good stuff.

[ozgod]

Post-Brogdon, the whole summer was a giant waste.

I mostly agree.  I still like the Hauser signing.

Hauser was good and frankly Kornet or Griffin would have been ok if he was the 14th man (1 not both).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Gallinari signing, but he is at least a credible player and would have been fine but for the injury.  My issue at the time, since, and still now has been the crap that comprises the roster spots of Vonleh, Jackson, and Griffin/Kornet.  3 wasted roster spots, which is totally unacceptable given the trade exception and other veterans that were available for the minimum.  Those should not be on the roster for a team that claims it wants to contend and for which paying the tax apparently isn't an issue.  At least they have dumped one of those spots (though cost cash to do so).  See who they actually fill into that spot before I get too excited about it.

I tend to agree with you but wondering what ring chasing vets actually wanted to sign here. Over the summer I wanted to sign one or two guys like Carmelo, cousins, whiteside, Aldridge or Dwight. However the fact that not a single team has signed them even with some injuries around the league seems to suggest all teams are viewing these guys as not nba quality players.

I agree and I was optimistically hoping that Vonleh would prove himself, being both younger than those dinosaurs and also needing another chance. It didn't work out. Sometimes I think the C's front office is just trying to catch lightning-in-a-bottle, but the odds of that happening are always low.

I feel like it's the fans more than the front office that are hoping for "some ring chasing vet willing to play for the minumum" that would sign with the team and actually move the needle. I just don't think it happens all that often - that to me would be catching lightning in a bottle. I guess we already have our ring chasing vet in Blake and what we're getting from him is what we could realistically expect from a ring chasing vet on a minimum contract 

What do you think the front office is looking for?

My personal opinion is I don't feel like they are looking for anyone specific. I think they are looking for flexibility and so they might sit on an open slot till the trade deadline in case someone gets injured. If they do sign anyone it will be an insurance guy for an injury. I think that given how first Ime and now Mazz have used their rotations, they have their top 8 that they use regularly, JT, JB, Smart, White, Al, Timelord, Brogdon, GWill, that will probably be the playoff rotation, then they have the niche bench guys in Luke and Blake as the 2 bigs, PP as the ball handler and Hauser as the wing. That's 12...then you have the 2 2-way guys for 14, and Jackson for 15. Those last 3 are pretty superfluous, I couldn't remotely imagine them playing unless it's a blowout (whether we are winning or losing it). And Timelord's return has reduced the minutes available to the rest of the bigs by 20 or so already.

I could be wrong and maybe they will sign some wing to reduce the workload on the Jays...but if Gallo makes it back before the end of the regular season they would have to carve minutes out for him as well. I just find it hard to see it happening, that they would add yet another significant player. Stranger things have happened though 

[CFAN38]

Vonleh was a buy low signing anyway and he's reached his due date so they move on. He couldn't crack the rotation, end of story. The end roster spots are for projects so they'll move someone else in.  It's not going to be anyone with any track record in the league, that's for sure.

except Boston had and still does have plenty of available minutes for a veteran big man.  A lot of "crap" has played a lot of minutes for the Celtics this year.  A ring chasing vet could actually get solid playing time for the C's.  someone like that was always a better option than someone like Vonleh who was so bad he wasn't even in the league last year.  I mean he wasn't an undrafted rookie, dude was in the league several years and was just terrible.

If the Bulls decide make his available I wonder if annual Andre Drummond to the Cs rumors start back up again. I have never been a fan of him as a starting 5 but he is still is only 29 and his leading the league in Rbs per 36min. If he can be traded for using TPE space and a future second round pick he provides great depth behind Rob. 

[slamtheking]

anyone know when Jackson's deal becomes guaranteed or is it already guaranteed?

It's either 1/9 or 1/10, depending on which reporting you believe.  I think he needs to be cut by 1/9, as if he's on the roster on January 10 his contract becomes guaranteed.

TP for the info

[dannyboy35]

   I feel like any of the Bucks, Cavs, Nets or maybe to a lesser extent the  Sixers could get creative and really add a difference maker in a deal. I’m thinking Brad is thinking the same . Obviously I could be wrong but I’m expecting a significant scoring punch addition by trade THiS year.  Obviously, I could be wrong.

[Vermont Green]

What do you think the front office is looking for?

This is the big question of course.  I think the front office is looking at anything and everything to improve the team.  I can think of a few possibilities (probably wishful thinking).

I see a need for a veteran bench wing/SF or swing/PF.  Hauser has been a pleasant surprise so far as a back up wing/forward but his magic is already starting to wane some.  I am not sure if he will hold up and be a viable playoff rotation player.  It will probably require a trade to find a bench forward/wing who is enough better than Hauser to make it worthwhile to bring in.  I don't see any of the currently available FAs as fitting this mold. 

And of course, I would expect that they would be open to bringing in a rotation caliber big, probably a PF (Horford and RWilliams can be our Cs).  As with the wing/forward, a PF/C type would need to be good enough to actually be a viable playoff rotation player, someone at least as good as Grant for example, not another Kornet or Griffin.  I don't see any of the currently available FA bigs as fitting this need.

I would trade White or Pritchard (but not both), and/or Gallinari for the right player.  I would not trade Smart, Grant or any other rotation player, unless there was a really good, all star level player coming back.  I don't mind giving up picks either for the right player(s).  There are lots of options, I hope the front office is seriously looking at all of them.  It does not seem like "dumping" Vonleh is directly related to some specific subsequent move, just clearing out his money and roster spot as RWill (returning), Griffin, and Kornet make him expendable.

[SHAQATTACK]

Important piece

















NOT 

[Surferdad]

Post-Brogdon, the whole summer was a giant waste.

I mostly agree.  I still like the Hauser signing.

Hauser was good and frankly Kornet or Griffin would have been ok if he was the 14th man (1 not both).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Gallinari signing, but he is at least a credible player and would have been fine but for the injury.  My issue at the time, since, and still now has been the crap that comprises the roster spots of Vonleh, Jackson, and Griffin/Kornet.  3 wasted roster spots, which is totally unacceptable given the trade exception and other veterans that were available for the minimum.  Those should not be on the roster for a team that claims it wants to contend and for which paying the tax apparently isn't an issue.  At least they have dumped one of those spots (though cost cash to do so).  See who they actually fill into that spot before I get too excited about it.

I tend to agree with you but wondering what ring chasing vets actually wanted to sign here. Over the summer I wanted to sign one or two guys like Carmelo, cousins, whiteside, Aldridge or Dwight. However the fact that not a single team has signed them even with some injuries around the league seems to suggest all teams are viewing these guys as not nba quality players.

I agree and I was optimistically hoping that Vonleh would prove himself, being both younger than those dinosaurs and also needing another chance. It didn't work out. Sometimes I think the C's front office is just trying to catch lightning-in-a-bottle, but the odds of that happening are always low.

I feel like it's the fans more than the front office that are hoping for "some ring chasing vet willing to play for the minumum" that would sign with the team and actually move the needle. I just don't think it happens all that often - that to me would be catching lightning in a bottle. I guess we already have our ring chasing vet in Blake and what we're getting from him is what we could realistically expect from a ring chasing vet on a minimum contract 

What do you think the front office is looking for?

My personal opinion is I don't feel like they are looking for anyone specific. I think they are looking for flexibility and so they might sit on an open slot till the trade deadline in case someone gets injured. If they do sign anyone it will be an insurance guy for an injury. I think that given how first Ime and now Mazz have used their rotations, they have their top 8 that they use regularly, JT, JB, Smart, White, Al, Timelord, Brogdon, GWill, that will probably be the playoff rotation, then they have the niche bench guys in Luke and Blake as the 2 bigs, PP as the ball handler and Hauser as the wing. That's 12...then you have the 2 2-way guys for 14, and Jackson for 15. Those last 3 are pretty superfluous, I couldn't remotely imagine them playing unless it's a blowout (whether we are winning or losing it). And Timelord's return has reduced the minutes available to the rest of the bigs by 20 or so already.

I could be wrong and maybe they will sign some wing to reduce the workload on the Jays...but if Gallo makes it back before the end of the regular season they would have to carve minutes out for him as well. I just find it hard to see it happening, that they would add yet another significant player. Stranger things have happened though 

I'm thinking that Gallo eventually takes all of Hauser's minutes and then some if he's ready to go for the playoffs.

[Roy H.]

Vonleh had a $1.8 million contract that was set to become guaranteed Jan. 7. He had already incurred $1.2 million in salary and Boston would have been on the hook for the remainder if he was waived after that date.

By trading Vonleh to San Antonio, his salary was removed from the cap and Boston's tax bill was reduced from $66 million to $58.9 million. If Vonleh was waived outright, the tax bill would have been $63.3 million.

In short, the Celtics spent $1.5 million to save between $4.5 and $6.5 million -- a tax savings that could help the team offset the cost of filling its final roster spot with a veteran who gets bought out after the trade deadline.

The Spurs on the other hand profited $500,000 after deducting the $992,000 owed to Gorgui Dieng (who was waived to make room for Vonleh) and $28,000 for the two days Vonleh was on the roster before also being waived.

If there is a negative (and this is a stretch) it is that the Spurs' cap space decreased to $27.8 million because of the $1.1 million in dead salary of Vonleh.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35415238/the-hoop-collective-first-round-picks-no-use-lebron-james-here-why

[Vermont Green]

Vonleh had a $1.8 million contract that was set to become guaranteed Jan. 7. He had already incurred $1.2 million in salary and Boston would have been on the hook for the remainder if he was waived after that date.

By trading Vonleh to San Antonio, his salary was removed from the cap and Boston's tax bill was reduced from $66 million to $58.9 million. If Vonleh was waived outright, the tax bill would have been $63.3 million.

In short, the Celtics spent $1.5 million to save between $4.5 and $6.5 million -- a tax savings that could help the team offset the cost of filling its final roster spot with a veteran who gets bought out after the trade deadline.

The Spurs on the other hand profited $500,000 after deducting the $992,000 owed to Gorgui Dieng (who was waived to make room for Vonleh) and $28,000 for the two days Vonleh was on the roster before also being waived.

If there is a negative (and this is a stretch) it is that the Spurs' cap space decreased to $27.8 million because of the $1.1 million in dead salary of Vonleh.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35415238/the-hoop-collective-first-round-picks-no-use-lebron-james-here-why

I think the way they describe this is still unclear but it breaks down as follows:

If they had let the contract guarantee kick in:
    Added Salary: $600,000
    end of year tax: $7.1M more  ($66M - $58.9M)

If they had just cut him:
      Added Salary: $0
      end of year tax: $4.4M more  ($63.3 - $58.9M)

By trading him:
      To Spurs:  $1.5M?
      Added Salary: $0
      End of year tax: $0 more

So by my count, they are saving $2.9M over just cutting him ($4.4M tax savings less $1.5M paid to Spurs).  This is still a good deal, I just don't think the statements in the article are logical.  I don't think there was ever a scenario where they would keep him to the end of the season and pay his full salary plus full tax.  The options were just cut him or trade him.