Celtics Dump Vonleh

[mobilija]

Jackson next pls

I wouldn't be upset w some ten day tryouts till we sort out any trades and/or the buyout market. Find a good towel waver, Jackson and Vonleh couldn't hold a candle to last years end of bench celebrants.

[slamtheking]

anyone know when Jackson's deal becomes guaranteed or is it already guaranteed?

[Roy H.]

anyone know when Jackson's deal becomes guaranteed or is it already guaranteed?

It's either 1/9 or 1/10, depending on which reporting you believe.  I think he needs to be cut by 1/9, as if he's on the roster on January 10 his contract becomes guaranteed.

[Vermont Green]

There was another thread asking what are we going to do with our non-guaranteed players, I guess this is now one answer.  My reply was I did not think they would cut someone just to cut them.  At this point, that is proving wrong, they did exactly that with Vonleh.  This might not be the end of it though.  They may have something in the works and need to open a roster spot.  Surprised it was Vonleh and not Jackson though.

Keith Smith tweeted that dumping Vonleh now saves them $7 million in tax.

What would have been the difference if they had just cut him?  Is the $7M tax savings in relation to cutting him before the guarantee kicked in?  Or is this in relation to if they had kept him all season?

as i understand this, so the deal is basically...

boston sends vonleh to SA with enough cash to cover his remaining guarantees. this save the celtics roughly $6-7 million in tax at the end of the year, as opposed to waiving him.

SAgets Vonleh, and the cash, waives him at no cost to them, but saves money because they are $16 million below the floor. meaning they spend boston's cash but get closer to the floor and have to pay out less later.

the celtics will likely get either a never to convey 2nd or draft rights to some nobody. but right now i think the flexibility of an open roster spot is more valuable.

this shows me that PBS is hard at work.

Thanks for the further explanation but would we really have saved $7M if we would have cut him before Jan 10?  Would the tax then apply to only his prorated salary that was paid?  I know that since we were able to trade him, that now we don't have to pay any tax against his salary.  I think his full salary was about $2.5M but if we had just cut him, we would have only have paid him $1.2M or something.  That is what is going to count as dead salary against SAN's cap (or floor).

I don't think the tax on the $1.2M would have been $6M, would it (to total $7M in savings)?  Not trading him and just cutting him before Jan 10 would have cost the team the $1.2M in salary plus tax so still a good financial deal to trade him, but I am not sure we would have really saved $7M.  If the contract had become guaranteed, then I can see how the saving might be $7M (but even then, I don't think all of a vet min contract applies to the cap/tax).

Anyway, no harm no foul to trade him.  As others have said, we will likely refill the roster spot anyway so might as well save what we can to free up the spot.

[Roy H.]

Thanks for the further explanation but would we really have saved $7M if we would have cut him before Jan 10?  Would the tax then apply to only his prorated salary that was paid?

If we would have waived him, we would have paid luxury tax on the amount that he had been paid at the time he was waived.  I don't know how the $7 million is calculated.  Bobby Marks tweeted we saved $7.15 million.  My assumption is that figure is that's the amount of a fully guaranteed salary plus the tax we would have paid on it.

Numbers: 

$1,160,955 -- amount Vonleh actually received this year

$2,133,278 - amount Vonleh would have been paid if his contract became fully guaranteed

[ozgod]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

[Vermont Green]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

[ozgod]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

Makes sense, I just don't think it's a move that would reap any tangible benefit to us at this point. Both of them are better off in the G-league at this point playing. Unless we're looking for Samanic to take some of Hauser's minutes.

I'm surprised he's only played 4 games...on the RealGM schedule I see him playing a lot more. I guess they separate 2022 from 2023 in the stats?

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleague/teams/Maine-Celtics/64/Schedule/2023

[Surferdad]

Post-Brogdon, the whole summer was a giant waste.

I mostly agree.  I still like the Hauser signing.

Hauser was good and frankly Kornet or Griffin would have been ok if he was the 14th man (1 not both).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Gallinari signing, but he is at least a credible player and would have been fine but for the injury.  My issue at the time, since, and still now has been the crap that comprises the roster spots of Vonleh, Jackson, and Griffin/Kornet.  3 wasted roster spots, which is totally unacceptable given the trade exception and other veterans that were available for the minimum.  Those should not be on the roster for a team that claims it wants to contend and for which paying the tax apparently isn't an issue.  At least they have dumped one of those spots (though cost cash to do so).  See who they actually fill into that spot before I get too excited about it.

I tend to agree with you but wondering what ring chasing vets actually wanted to sign here. Over the summer I wanted to sign one or two guys like Carmelo, cousins, whiteside, Aldridge or Dwight. However the fact that not a single team has signed them even with some injuries around the league seems to suggest all teams are viewing these guys as not nba quality players.

I agree and I was optimistically hoping that Vonleh would prove himself, being both younger than those dinosaurs and also needing another chance. It didn't work out. Sometimes I think the C's front office is just trying to catch lightning-in-a-bottle, but the odds of that happening are always low.

[ozgod]

Post-Brogdon, the whole summer was a giant waste.

I mostly agree.  I still like the Hauser signing.

Hauser was good and frankly Kornet or Griffin would have been ok if he was the 14th man (1 not both).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Gallinari signing, but he is at least a credible player and would have been fine but for the injury.  My issue at the time, since, and still now has been the crap that comprises the roster spots of Vonleh, Jackson, and Griffin/Kornet.  3 wasted roster spots, which is totally unacceptable given the trade exception and other veterans that were available for the minimum.  Those should not be on the roster for a team that claims it wants to contend and for which paying the tax apparently isn't an issue.  At least they have dumped one of those spots (though cost cash to do so).  See who they actually fill into that spot before I get too excited about it.

I tend to agree with you but wondering what ring chasing vets actually wanted to sign here. Over the summer I wanted to sign one or two guys like Carmelo, cousins, whiteside, Aldridge or Dwight. However the fact that not a single team has signed them even with some injuries around the league seems to suggest all teams are viewing these guys as not nba quality players.

I agree and I was optimistically hoping that Vonleh would prove himself, being both younger than those dinosaurs and also needing another chance. It didn't work out. Sometimes I think the C's front office is just trying to catch lightning-in-a-bottle, but the odds of that happening are always low.

I feel like it's the fans more than the front office that are hoping for "some ring chasing vet willing to play for the minumum" that would sign with the team and actually move the needle. I just don't think it happens all that often - that to me would be catching lightning in a bottle. I guess we already have our ring chasing vet in Blake and what we're getting from him is what we could realistically expect from a ring chasing vet on a minimum contract 

[Roy H.]

Post-Brogdon, the whole summer was a giant waste.

I mostly agree.  I still like the Hauser signing.

Hauser was good and frankly Kornet or Griffin would have been ok if he was the 14th man (1 not both).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Gallinari signing, but he is at least a credible player and would have been fine but for the injury.  My issue at the time, since, and still now has been the crap that comprises the roster spots of Vonleh, Jackson, and Griffin/Kornet.  3 wasted roster spots, which is totally unacceptable given the trade exception and other veterans that were available for the minimum.  Those should not be on the roster for a team that claims it wants to contend and for which paying the tax apparently isn't an issue.  At least they have dumped one of those spots (though cost cash to do so).  See who they actually fill into that spot before I get too excited about it.

I tend to agree with you but wondering what ring chasing vets actually wanted to sign here. Over the summer I wanted to sign one or two guys like Carmelo, cousins, whiteside, Aldridge or Dwight. However the fact that not a single team has signed them even with some injuries around the league seems to suggest all teams are viewing these guys as not nba quality players.

I agree and I was optimistically hoping that Vonleh would prove himself, being both younger than those dinosaurs and also needing another chance. It didn't work out. Sometimes I think the C's front office is just trying to catch lightning-in-a-bottle, but the odds of that happening are always low.

I feel like it's the fans more than the front office that are hoping for "some ring chasing vet willing to play for the minumum" that would sign with the team and actually move the needle. I just don't think it happens all that often - that to me would be catching lightning in a bottle. I guess we already have our ring chasing vet in Blake and what we're getting from him is what we could realistically expect from a ring chasing vet on a minimum contract 

What do you think the front office is looking for?

[knuckleballer]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

Makes sense, I just don't think it's a move that would reap any tangible benefit to us at this point. Both of them are better off in the G-league at this point playing. Unless we're looking for Samanic to take some of Hauser's minutes.

I'm surprised he's only played 4 games...on the RealGM schedule I see him playing a lot more. I guess they separate 2022 from 2023 in the stats?

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleague/teams/Maine-Celtics/64/Schedule/2023

Yeah, he’s played 17 games.  I only mentioned him because he’s young, doing well, and not currently signed by the Celtics.  If they don’t sign him soon, they will likely lose him to another team.

[Roy H.]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

Makes sense, I just don't think it's a move that would reap any tangible benefit to us at this point. Both of them are better off in the G-league at this point playing. Unless we're looking for Samanic to take some of Hauser's minutes.

I'm surprised he's only played 4 games...on the RealGM schedule I see him playing a lot more. I guess they separate 2022 from 2023 in the stats?

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleague/teams/Maine-Celtics/64/Schedule/2023

Yeah, he’s played 17 games.  I only mentioned him because he’s young, doing well, and not currently signed by the Celtics.  If they don’t sign him soon, they will likely lose him to another team.

The G-League has some sort of weird system, where the "regular season" just started or something like that.  I don't quite understand it.

[knuckleballer]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

Makes sense, I just don't think it's a move that would reap any tangible benefit to us at this point. Both of them are better off in the G-league at this point playing. Unless we're looking for Samanic to take some of Hauser's minutes.

I'm surprised he's only played 4 games...on the RealGM schedule I see him playing a lot more. I guess they separate 2022 from 2023 in the stats?

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleague/teams/Maine-Celtics/64/Schedule/2023

Yeah, he’s played 17 games.  I only mentioned him because he’s young, doing well, and not currently signed by the Celtics.  If they don’t sign him soon, they will likely lose him to another team.

The G-League has some sort of weird system, where the "regular season" just started or something like that.  I don't quite understand it.

From Wikipedia: “For the second consecutive season, the schedule will be split into two parts: the 18-game Showcase Cup which began on November 4, 2022, followed by a 32-game regular season which tips off on December 27.[1] The NBA G League Finals will happen in April 2023.”

[Celtics2021]

I wonder if Samanic will get the roster spot.  Or maybe they will just wait until after the trade deadline and buyouts.

They will wait till there's a genuine need. With Timelord back there was really no more minutes for Vonleh, or anyone else really unless they displaced Blake or Luke.

Luka Samanic has only played 4 G-League games this year but has probably played a little better than Kabengele in those games.  I would prefer to see Samanic as the 2-way player.

Makes sense, I just don't think it's a move that would reap any tangible benefit to us at this point. Both of them are better off in the G-league at this point playing. Unless we're looking for Samanic to take some of Hauser's minutes.

I'm surprised he's only played 4 games...on the RealGM schedule I see him playing a lot more. I guess they separate 2022 from 2023 in the stats?

https://basketball.realgm.com/gleague/teams/Maine-Celtics/64/Schedule/2023

Yeah, he’s played 17 games.  I only mentioned him because he’s young, doing well, and not currently signed by the Celtics.  If they don’t sign him soon, they will likely lose him to another team.

The G-League has some sort of weird system, where the "regular season" just started or something like that.  I don't quite understand it.

They have a mini-tournament prior to the start of the season.  Initial games are played in home markets, but then they converge to Vegas for a few days to have a tournament.  This serves a few purposes:

1) It lets all the scouts go to Vegas to see all the G-league players in one location.

2) Because of #1, this incentivizes players to stick with their G-League clubs through the showcase, since they know there will be a time in December to play in front of every NBA franchise.  Accordingly, early season G-League has stable rosters and an elevated level of competition, which raises its profile as a developmental option.

3) Also, because late-season G-League rosters are so chaotic, winning the showcase says as much about your team as winning the “regular season”, so it’s something to play for.

4) Because all of the NBA is watching the G-League for a few days, they can use the showcase portion of the season to experiment with some rules changes, so the decision-makers watching get to see a lot of basketball with these trial rule changes.

Anyway, that’s why the Showcase exists.  But it’s over now and 10-days start to get signed soon, so if the Celtics are interested in signing Samanic to the big club, they likely have to make that move in the next couple of weeks.