Author Topic: Worst bench in the NBA?  (Read 8731 times)

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Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2021, 10:11:45 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.


Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2021, 10:33:02 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.

Yes, the stat that illustrates a players efficiency on both ends of the court is completely meaningless. All the analysts that use it regularly should just stop now.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2021, 11:26:47 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.

Yes, the stat that illustrates a players efficiency on both ends of the court is completely meaningless. All the analysts that use it regularly should just stop now.

In 2 of 3 games you mentioned, he had zero points and zero boards. Last night, Nesmith had 0, 0, 0, 0 and 0 in the 5 major catagories. That's efficiency alright!

+/- is a measure of a team's efficiency during a player's time on the floor. That Nesmith got lucky other guys made shots during his 7 mins last night has nothing to do with his efficiency. Best thing you can say about his performance is "he didn't foul a lot".

So yeah, our bench is not great when we're using Nesmith as an example of a positive.



Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2021, 11:37:55 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.

Yes, the stat that illustrates a players efficiency on both ends of the court is completely meaningless. All the analysts that use it regularly should just stop now.

In 2 of 3 games you mentioned, he had zero points and zero boards. Last night, Nesmith had 0, 0, 0, 0 and 0 in the 5 major catagories. That's efficiency alright!

+/- is a measure of a team's efficiency during a player's time on the floor. That Nesmith got lucky other guys made shots during his 7 mins last night has nothing to do with his efficiency. Best thing you can say about his performance is "he didn't foul a lot".

So yeah, our bench is not great when we're using Nesmith as an example of a positive.

Are you implying it was just luck that the team played well when he was on the court? If so, he should play more until that luck runs out. There are many ways to impact the game..Nesmith’s hustle impacts the game at both ends. If his presence frees up easier shots and rebounds for his team mates, which the stats suggest, he should play more. These stats are more telling than credit you give them.

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2021, 01:48:20 PM »

Offline liam

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.

Yes, the stat that illustrates a players efficiency on both ends of the court is completely meaningless. All the analysts that use it regularly should just stop now.

In 2 of 3 games you mentioned, he had zero points and zero boards. Last night, Nesmith had 0, 0, 0, 0 and 0 in the 5 major catagories. That's efficiency alright!

+/- is a measure of a team's efficiency during a player's time on the floor. That Nesmith got lucky other guys made shots during his 7 mins last night has nothing to do with his efficiency. Best thing you can say about his performance is "he didn't foul a lot".

So yeah, our bench is not great when we're using Nesmith as an example of a positive.

Are you implying it was just luck that the team played well when he was on the court? If so, he should play more until that luck runs out. There are many ways to impact the game..Nesmith’s hustle impacts the game at both ends. If his presence frees up easier shots and rebounds for his team mates, which the stats suggest, he should play more. These stats are more telling than credit you give them.

When you have Nesmith and Pritchard on the court together, which has been rare, it changes the court. It spreads it out and really opens up the driving lanes. A line up of Nesmith, Kemba, Pritchard, Tatum, and Theis widens the court and pulls opponents out of the lanes. The numbers never tell the whole story to a game.

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2021, 03:12:34 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.

Yes, the stat that illustrates a players efficiency on both ends of the court is completely meaningless. All the analysts that use it regularly should just stop now.

In 2 of 3 games you mentioned, he had zero points and zero boards. Last night, Nesmith had 0, 0, 0, 0 and 0 in the 5 major catagories. That's efficiency alright!

+/- is a measure of a team's efficiency during a player's time on the floor. That Nesmith got lucky other guys made shots during his 7 mins last night has nothing to do with his efficiency. Best thing you can say about his performance is "he didn't foul a lot".

So yeah, our bench is not great when we're using Nesmith as an example of a positive.

Are you implying it was just luck that the team played well when he was on the court? If so, he should play more until that luck runs out. There are many ways to impact the game..Nesmith’s hustle impacts the game at both ends. If his presence frees up easier shots and rebounds for his team mates, which the stats suggest, he should play more. These stats are more telling than credit you give them.

I'm not implying anything. I said: "Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball."

When a guy plays only 7 minutes, post donuts across the entire box score, looks a little less lost than he did last game or last week..... yet has his teammates score 7 more points than the opponent in those 7 minutes -- it's not evidence of much. How about PER? Nesmith's is horrible. But same deal -- sample size is tiny, not worth pretending it really means anything.

Should he play more? I mean I guess. What do we have to lose, really? Might as well invest in his future consider we spend a lottery pick on him, and the team isn't very good.

To the larger point, a couple more minutes here and there for Green, Semi and Nesmith in either direction doesn't change the fact that we have a weak NBA bench by virtually any measure.

If there going to play Nesmith, play him real minutes and call actual plays for him instead of having him stand around at the 3 point line like everyone else.....


« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 03:44:29 PM by todd_days_41 »

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2021, 11:22:38 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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4th game in a row Nesmith didn’t go negative on + / -....

Sample size is increasing!


Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2021, 02:09:30 AM »

Offline Somebody

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4th game in a row Nesmith didn’t go negative on + / -....

Sample size is increasing!
So he went from terrible to below replacement level! Rejoice!

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Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2021, 02:11:01 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Nesmith has been a +4, +5 and a +7 the last 3 game.

Fans rely too much on empty stats to defend a micro-argument. +/- in a small sample size is one of the most overused, meaningless stats in basketball.

Yes, the stat that illustrates a players efficiency on both ends of the court is completely meaningless. All the analysts that use it regularly should just stop now.
Analysts regularly use adjusted +/- data, not raw +/- or raw on/off.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2021, 07:32:31 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Is there a team in the NBA with a worse bench than: Teague, Timelord, Semi, Pritchard, Grant Williams, Green, Waters, Edwards, Tacko?

Teague Has been bad for the most part, Timelord is getting better, but still raw, Pritchard and Nesmith are rookies. GWilliams, Waters, Edwards, Tacko and Green all belong in the G-League. It’s no wonder Jayson and Jaylen look defeated out there. They have no help.

Maybe, but add Smart and Langford into the mix and where are we?
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Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2021, 08:01:18 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The team has been thin all year.  No team is ever fully healthy and that is why you need depth but we have been hit hard.  We don't have several of our top players on the court and those that are, are all not 100%.

Smart and Langford will help considerably with depth.  Our top 3 starters, Tatum, Brown, Walker, are all dealing with something and not 100%.

This is fixable.  Our big 3 need to continue to improve, we need to get Smart back, and then we need to add a depth piece or two via trade or buy out.  None of this should be all that hard to do and we will be just fine.

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2021, 10:29:04 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Smart and Langford will help considerably with depth.

Romeo Langford has played less than 400 NBA minutes. I think people are putting too much hope into how good he's gonna be, especially considering he's barely played in a year.

There's just as good a chance he'll be mediocre than that he'll be a step up over our other young guys -- especially this season. He needs to be able to actually play consistently improve.

Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2021, 11:05:51 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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TT, PP, Semi, Romeo, Nesmith, Grant and Teague is a good bench.
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Re: Worst bench in the NBA?
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2021, 12:54:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Assuming we add in the player that was left out of the initial thread then I'd certainly take Boston's bench over Golden State's. 

GS bench
Damion Lee
Brad Wanamaker
Erick Paschall
Kent Bazemore
Juan Toscano-Anderson
Kevon Looney
Mychal Mulder
Jordan Poole
Nico Mannion
Marquese Chriss

That bench is worse than Boston's. 

Dallas is pretty bad also
Maxi Kleber
Jalen Brunson
James Johnson
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Burke
Dwight Powell
Wesley Iwundu
Josh Green
Boban Marjanovic
Tyrell Terry
Tyler Bey
Nate Hinton

Oklahoma City is a pile of dung as well
Theo Maledon
Hamidou Diallo
Isaiah Roby
Mike Muscala
Kenrich Williams
Aleksej Pokusevski
Justin Jackson
Darius Miller
Josh Hall
Moses Brown
I still think those 3 benches are worse.
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Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner