Poll

Jaylen Brown for Jaren Jackson, Jr. Do you do it?

Let's do this! I see a dynasty!
1 (6.7%)
Only if we can make this trade without including a pick or some other minor asset.
0 (0%)
Nope, Celtics should so no.
4 (26.7%)
Nope, Memphis says no. JJJ is their guy
10 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson[Poll]  (Read 1748 times)

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Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson[Poll]
« on: April 06, 2019, 09:22:37 AM »

Online Sophomore

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Suppose the price for AD is too high - maybe Durant does go to the Knicks, the Knicks win the draft lottery, and they decide to dangle the top pick to NOP so they can pair Durant with AD. Or suppose the Pels hold out for Tatum and Brown, but this year's team gets to the Finals so the team doesn't want to do major surgery. What about this as a rebalancing second-best:

Bos gets: Jaren Jackson Jr.
Mem gets: Jaylen Brown

If necessary, throw in a lesser first-round pick for NOP - ideally Boston's or the Clippers', possibly Sacto's if it doesn't move up in the lottery.

Why Boston does it: First, they make sure JJJ's physicals check out. If they do, we would be rebalancing - exchanging a very good player (in Brown) for another very good player (JJJ) in an area where we are much thinner.  JJJ might pair well with Al right away as a starter, letting us give Baynes 15-20 minutes as the third big; longterm we would be grooming JJJ to be Al's heir. The future of the frontcourt, assuming RWIII keeps improving, looks solid and we clear out some of the logjam at the wing. Since Jackson is a long 6'11" (good reach) and already goes 240 at age 19, he's plenty big enough to play center. Plus, he's on his rookie deal for another three years, which helps ease the pain of the lux tax.

Why Memphis does it: Memphis would miss JJJ, no doubt, but they have plenty of other holes. They are also lacking an elite wing prospect, and Brown fills that bill. Playing on the Grizzlies will let Brown grow into a bigger role and develop more of his growing talent for shot creation, which is going to be a bit buried on the Cs. He's already a very good one-on-one defender - a true two-way player.  They play different positions, but Brown's talent is comparable to Jackson's, and the sweetener, which is likely needed to get this deal done, is an extra first-round pick.

Wanted to add a poll, but can't figure out how to do that, so here's my poll:

1 - Let's do this! I see a dynasty!
2 - Only if we can make this trade without including a pick or some other minor asset.
3 - Nope, Celtics should say no
4 - Nope, Memphis says no, JJJ is their guy
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 11:52:28 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 09:46:05 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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#4, I think Memphis is gonna wanna hold onto JJJ.  He had a great 1st year and I think just based on potential and how young he is, they aren't gonna want to trade him for Jaylen.  I rated JJJ as a top #10-12 prospect in our Young Player Redraft thread but have Jaylen in the #16-18 range.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

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Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2019, 10:48:04 AM »

Offline ederson

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I unless there is something to sweeten the deal I can't see Memphis doing that. Otherwise it's a lateral move or even a small step back considering that JJJ can be locked for more years

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2019, 10:55:44 AM »

Online jambr380

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Jaylen might be my favorite Celtic, but I would probably do the deal just based on the rookie contract scale and the fact that we just locked up Smart for multiple years. JJJ looks like he could slot right in next to Al and then take the reins when Al ages out of being starter quality. We would need to add pick(s), maybe even give them theirs back.

I do worry about the luxury tax and am more than a little baffled that DA didn't make a move to get us under the tax this season - we were SO close. I guess he probably didn't want to upset Kyrie as it is most important that we get him signed to a long-term deal.

As for the thread title, I was pleasantly surprised when I read that it was JJJ and not Josh Jackson (who I actually was a huge fan of last season). I really thought he would be better this season, although he did pull up his putrid 3-pt%. Anyway, enough going off-track.

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2019, 11:12:25 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's a nice thought but there is a lot that wouldn't work for either team. First off C's next year are likely going to have a roster change with the loss of Rozier and Morris. As well as 3 first possibly 4. These guys may crack the rotation by default. I expect if no AD deal is done its
PG=Irving/Smart
SG=Brown/Rookie
SF=Hayward/Semi
PF=Tatum/MLE
C=Horford/T.Lord

SG would be weakest spot the team would need Smart to put in some minutes there or have a rookie fill in. Dealing Brown isn't a smart move.



As for the Grizz if their pick doesn't convey this year they are looking at a few high potential wings available in Reddish, Little, and Hunter they probably don't want to give up JJJ for Brown.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2019, 11:18:42 AM »

Online Sophomore

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I unless there is something to sweeten the deal I can't see Memphis doing that. Otherwise it's a lateral move or even a small step back considering that JJJ can be locked for more years

I think that's probably right, and it may be that the salaries are a significant disincentive for Memphis. Although Memphis could keep Jaylen for five years at least (he's an RFA at the end of his rookie deal) that could be expensive and deprive them of some flexibility down the line.

I'd be OK giving them the Sacto pick.

It's a little hard for me to game out what Memphis is going to do - I don't know the team that well, and their draft situation is very uncertain. The difference between keeping and conveying their 2019 pick is probably just one game.

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2019, 11:34:18 AM »

Online Sophomore

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It's a nice thought but there is a lot that wouldn't work for either team. First off C's next year are likely going to have a roster change with the loss of Rozier and Morris. As well as 3 first possibly 4. These guys may crack the rotation by default. I expect if no AD deal is done its
PG=Irving/Smart
SG=Brown/Rookie
SF=Hayward/Semi
PF=Tatum/MLE
C=Horford/T.Lord

SG would be weakest spot the team would need Smart to put in some minutes there or have a rookie fill in. Dealing Brown isn't a smart move.



As for the Grizz if their pick doesn't convey this year they are looking at a few high potential wings available in Reddish, Little, and Hunter they probably don't want to give up JJJ for Brown.

Maybe. Or maybe our lineup would be:

Irving - 32.5 min (i.e., between 30-35/game)
Smart - 32.5 min
Tatum - 32.5
Horford - 30
JJJ - 25

Hayward as a supersub, making sure we have a playmaker on the court at all times, and often closing games, 32.5. This is  the starting unit we played last night, but trading out JJJ for Baynes, which is likely a trade up in the short term and is really promising long term.

That leaves 60 minutes to the true subs, which might include Timelord (15) Baynes (15) Semi (15) Wanamaker or an MLE point guard/shooting guard (15). The team could assess where the MLE would do the most good, but a combo guard might make sense. Given the other players who are good shotmakers, having Brown in that role or in the starting lineup really feels like a waste. What we want to give us sufficient depth at the 1/2 is a steady hand who will play hardnosed D, defer to the other (better) shotmakers most of the time so that roles are clear, and take the open shots if the defense sags too much.

Another possibility is that if the pick does convey this year, there are players who might be available at 9 that could earn backup minutes - someone like DeAndre Hunter or Brandon Clarke, for example, both of whom are older than Jayson Tatum. They don't have the same ceiling as someone like Brown, but their floor looks pretty solid and we could get them on a rookie deal *after* someone has coached them into ready players.

For the Grizz - I see your point about good wings in the draft, and that may be a reason they don't want this deal, but there are also good 2 guards and point guards in this draft.  A lot of people have Culver 4 and Coby White near the top of the draft. And of course the pick might not convey this year...




« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 11:54:42 AM by Sophomore »

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2019, 12:10:34 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's a nice thought but there is a lot that wouldn't work for either team. First off C's next year are likely going to have a roster change with the loss of Rozier and Morris. As well as 3 first possibly 4. These guys may crack the rotation by default. I expect if no AD deal is done its
PG=Irving/Smart
SG=Brown/Rookie
SF=Hayward/Semi
PF=Tatum/MLE
C=Horford/T.Lord

SG would be weakest spot the team would need Smart to put in some minutes there or have a rookie fill in. Dealing Brown isn't a smart move.



As for the Grizz if their pick doesn't convey this year they are looking at a few high potential wings available in Reddish, Little, and Hunter they probably don't want to give up JJJ for Brown.

Maybe. Or maybe our lineup would be:

Irving - 32.5 min (i.e., between 30-35/game)
Smart - 32.5 min
Tatum - 32.5
Horford - 30
JJJ - 25

Hayward as a supersub, making sure we have a playmaker on the court at all times, and often closing games, 32.5. This is  the starting unit we played last night, but trading out JJJ for Baynes, which is likely a trade up in the short term and is really promising long term.

That leaves 60 minutes to the true subs, which might include Timelord (15) Baynes (15) Semi (15) Wanamaker or an MLE point guard/shooting guard (15). The team could assess where the MLE would do the most good, but a combo guard might make sense. Given the other players who are good shotmakers, having Brown in that role or in the starting lineup really feels like a waste. What we want to give us sufficient depth at the 1/2 is a steady hand who will play hardnosed D, defer to the other (better) shotmakers most of the time so that roles are clear, and take the open shots if the defense sags too much.

For the Grizz - I see your point about good wings in the draft, and that may be a reason they don't want this deal, but there are also good 2 guards and point guards in this draft.  A lot of people have Culver 4 and Coby White near the top of the draft. And of course the pick might not convey this year...
I completely disagree with Brown being a waste or that divvy of minutes. If you have Irving, Brown, and Smart playing for you at PG/SG you want them at 28mpg keeping guys fresh. You use up 84 mins of the 96. Leaving 12 mins available for a fourth guard or possibly go big with Hayward absorbing 5 to 7mins at SG. If you lose Brown you give way too many mins to scrubs not subs.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2019, 12:26:19 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I can see the reasoning behind it, but I wouldn't do it. I think Brown is gonna end up the better player, and even tho the rotation is tight this year I could see him getting a much bigger role next year.

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2019, 12:52:54 PM »

Online Sophomore

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It's a nice thought but there is a lot that wouldn't work for either team. First off C's next year are likely going to have a roster change with the loss of Rozier and Morris. As well as 3 first possibly 4. These guys may crack the rotation by default. I expect if no AD deal is done its
PG=Irving/Smart
SG=Brown/Rookie
SF=Hayward/Semi
PF=Tatum/MLE
C=Horford/T.Lord

SG would be weakest spot the team would need Smart to put in some minutes there or have a rookie fill in. Dealing Brown isn't a smart move.



As for the Grizz if their pick doesn't convey this year they are looking at a few high potential wings available in Reddish, Little, and Hunter they probably don't want to give up JJJ for Brown.

Maybe. Or maybe our lineup would be:

Irving - 32.5 min (i.e., between 30-35/game)
Smart - 32.5 min
Tatum - 32.5
Horford - 30
JJJ - 25

Hayward as a supersub, making sure we have a playmaker on the court at all times, and often closing games, 32.5. This is  the starting unit we played last night, but trading out JJJ for Baynes, which is likely a trade up in the short term and is really promising long term.

That leaves 60 minutes to the true subs, which might include Timelord (15) Baynes (15) Semi (15) Wanamaker or an MLE point guard/shooting guard (15). The team could assess where the MLE would do the most good, but a combo guard might make sense. Given the other players who are good shotmakers, having Brown in that role or in the starting lineup really feels like a waste. What we want to give us sufficient depth at the 1/2 is a steady hand who will play hardnosed D, defer to the other (better) shotmakers most of the time so that roles are clear, and take the open shots if the defense sags too much.

For the Grizz - I see your point about good wings in the draft, and that may be a reason they don't want this deal, but there are also good 2 guards and point guards in this draft.  A lot of people have Culver 4 and Coby White near the top of the draft. And of course the pick might not convey this year...
I completely disagree with Brown being a waste or that divvy of minutes. If you have Irving, Brown, and Smart playing for you at PG/SG you want them at 28mpg keeping guys fresh. You use up 84 mins of the 96. Leaving 12 mins available for a fourth guard or possibly go big with Hayward absorbing 5 to 7mins at SG. If you lose Brown you give way too many mins to scrubs not subs.

Not sure but you might have got me backward. I don’t mean Brown is a waste (not good enough for those minutes). I mean having him in the role he plays now underutilizes (wastes) a good part of his talent.

Having everyone fresh might yet be shown to work. But so far, when players lack defined roles it’s creating problems. Too few minutes for players who rightly think of themselves as all-stars or quality starters can be a problem.  Also, I think you are underselling just how dependent we are on Horford and his health. We currently have three very good to excellent wings, and only one big of that caliber and he is on the wrong side of 30.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 01:08:19 PM by Sophomore »

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2019, 01:26:40 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's a nice thought but there is a lot that wouldn't work for either team. First off C's next year are likely going to have a roster change with the loss of Rozier and Morris. As well as 3 first possibly 4. These guys may crack the rotation by default. I expect if no AD deal is done its
PG=Irving/Smart
SG=Brown/Rookie
SF=Hayward/Semi
PF=Tatum/MLE
C=Horford/T.Lord

SG would be weakest spot the team would need Smart to put in some minutes there or have a rookie fill in. Dealing Brown isn't a smart move.



As for the Grizz if their pick doesn't convey this year they are looking at a few high potential wings available in Reddish, Little, and Hunter they probably don't want to give up JJJ for Brown.

Maybe. Or maybe our lineup would be:

Irving - 32.5 min (i.e., between 30-35/game)
Smart - 32.5 min
Tatum - 32.5
Horford - 30
JJJ - 25

Hayward as a supersub, making sure we have a playmaker on the court at all times, and often closing games, 32.5. This is  the starting unit we played last night, but trading out JJJ for Baynes, which is likely a trade up in the short term and is really promising long term.

That leaves 60 minutes to the true subs, which might include Timelord (15) Baynes (15) Semi (15) Wanamaker or an MLE point guard/shooting guard (15). The team could assess where the MLE would do the most good, but a combo guard might make sense. Given the other players who are good shotmakers, having Brown in that role or in the starting lineup really feels like a waste. What we want to give us sufficient depth at the 1/2 is a steady hand who will play hardnosed D, defer to the other (better) shotmakers most of the time so that roles are clear, and take the open shots if the defense sags too much.

For the Grizz - I see your point about good wings in the draft, and that may be a reason they don't want this deal, but there are also good 2 guards and point guards in this draft.  A lot of people have Culver 4 and Coby White near the top of the draft. And of course the pick might not convey this year...
I completely disagree with Brown being a waste or that divvy of minutes. If you have Irving, Brown, and Smart playing for you at PG/SG you want them at 28mpg keeping guys fresh. You use up 84 mins of the 96. Leaving 12 mins available for a fourth guard or possibly go big with Hayward absorbing 5 to 7mins at SG. If you lose Brown you give way too many mins to scrubs not subs.

Not sure but you might have got me backward. I donít mean Brown is a waste (not good enough for those minutes). I mean having him in the role he plays now underutilizes (wastes) a good part of his talent.

Having everyone fresh might yet be shown to work. But so far, when players lack defined roles itís creating problems. Too few minutes can also be a problem.  Also, I think you are underselling just how dependent we are on Horford and his health. We currently have three very good to excellent wings, and only one big of that caliber and he is on the wrong side of 30.
You wrote waste in his role as well as starter. That's different from now you saying in his current role only. And if  you meant waste as Brown seeming redundant it's clear Brown isn't as he is the closet thing to an actual SG that we have on the roster.

And I know how old Horford is I'm not opposed to getting big man help. Just Brown isn't the guy I'd say is expendable to acquire one given what the roster turn over will be.

To get a big try trading up for Clark or draft Bol as a gamble. Or use the MLE on a decent Big. Maybe flip a few picks for a guy that becomes available.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 07:52:03 AM »

Offline ballislyf

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It's a nice thought but there is a lot that wouldn't work for either team. First off C's next year are likely going to have a roster change with the loss of Rozier and Morris. As well as 3 first possibly 4. These guys may crack the rotation by default. I expect if no AD deal is done its
PG=Irving/Smart
SG=Brown/Rookie
SF=Hayward/Semi
PF=Tatum/MLE
C=Horford/T.Lord

SG would be weakest spot the team would need Smart to put in some minutes there or have a rookie fill in. Dealing Brown isn't a smart move.



As for the Grizz if their pick doesn't convey this year they are looking at a few high potential wings available in Reddish, Little, and Hunter they probably don't want to give up JJJ for Brown.

Maybe. Or maybe our lineup would be:

Irving - 32.5 min (i.e., between 30-35/game)
Smart - 32.5 min
Tatum - 32.5
Horford - 30
JJJ - 25

Hayward as a supersub, making sure we have a playmaker on the court at all times, and often closing games, 32.5. This is  the starting unit we played last night, but trading out JJJ for Baynes, which is likely a trade up in the short term and is really promising long term.

That leaves 60 minutes to the true subs, which might include Timelord (15) Baynes (15) Semi (15) Wanamaker or an MLE point guard/shooting guard (15). The team could assess where the MLE would do the most good, but a combo guard might make sense. Given the other players who are good shotmakers, having Brown in that role or in the starting lineup really feels like a waste. What we want to give us sufficient depth at the 1/2 is a steady hand who will play hardnosed D, defer to the other (better) shotmakers most of the time so that roles are clear, and take the open shots if the defense sags too much.

Another possibility is that if the pick does convey this year, there are players who might be available at 9 that could earn backup minutes - someone like DeAndre Hunter or Brandon Clarke, for example, both of whom are older than Jayson Tatum. They don't have the same ceiling as someone like Brown, but their floor looks pretty solid and we could get them on a rookie deal *after* someone has coached them into ready players.

For the Grizz - I see your point about good wings in the draft, and that may be a reason they don't want this deal, but there are also good 2 guards and point guards in this draft.  A lot of people have Culver 4 and Coby White near the top of the draft. And of course the pick might not convey this year...

Same thoughts man. You just read my mind.

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2019, 05:52:10 AM »

Online RazzelnoDazzel

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Suppose the price for AD is too high - maybe Durant does go to the Knicks, the Knicks win the draft lottery, and they decide to dangle the top pick to NOP so they can pair Durant with AD. Or suppose the Pels hold out for Tatum and Brown, but this year's team gets to the Finals so the team doesn't want to do major surgery. What about this as a rebalancing second-best:

Bos gets: Jaren Jackson Jr.
Mem gets: Jaylen Brown

If necessary, throw in a lesser first-round pick for NOP - ideally Boston's or the Clippers', possibly Sacto's if it doesn't move up in the lottery.

Why Boston does it: First, they make sure JJJ's physicals check out. If they do, we would be rebalancing - exchanging a very good player (in Brown) for another very good player (JJJ) in an area where we are much thinner.  JJJ might pair well with Al right away as a starter, letting us give Baynes 15-20 minutes as the third big; longterm we would be grooming JJJ to be Al's heir. The future of the frontcourt, assuming RWIII keeps improving, looks solid and we clear out some of the logjam at the wing. Since Jackson is a long 6'11" (good reach) and already goes 240 at age 19, he's plenty big enough to play center. Plus, he's on his rookie deal for another three years, which helps ease the pain of the lux tax.

Why Memphis does it: Memphis would miss JJJ, no doubt, but they have plenty of other holes. They are also lacking an elite wing prospect, and Brown fills that bill. Playing on the Grizzlies will let Brown grow into a bigger role and develop more of his growing talent for shot creation, which is going to be a bit buried on the Cs. He's already a very good one-on-one defender - a true two-way player.  They play different positions, but Brown's talent is comparable to Jackson's, and the sweetener, which is likely needed to get this deal done, is an extra first-round pick.

Wanted to add a poll, but can't figure out how to do that, so here's my poll:

1 - Let's do this! I see a dynasty!
2 - Only if we can make this trade without including a pick or some other minor asset.
3 - Nope, Celtics should say no
4 - Nope, Memphis says no, JJJ is their guy

Easily 4 and you already answered why. They have too many roles to fill to be making a trade for just one player who wonít even make them better. You have stated already that Brown is comparable to JJJ (although I do not agree with this as jjj can protect the paint which is harder to find than another wing) which is a pointless trade for the grizzlies. This is another lopsided trade for the green goggle wearers.

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2019, 07:36:08 AM »

Online Fierce1

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I agree that it's a lopsided trade that favors the Celts.

JJJ is the future of the Griz.

Re: Rebalancing trade - Brown for Jackson
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2019, 08:49:09 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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If I'm the Grizz, it would take at least Brown and the Grizz pick back to even consider it.  It could easily become another Danny swindled someone trade. 

 

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