Author Topic: 2020 Red Sox Thread  (Read 34698 times)

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Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #300 on: January 13, 2020, 09:20:56 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 09:56:57 PM by jambr380 »

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #301 on: January 13, 2020, 09:42:00 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Dont fire Cora

Cheating accusation is funny if you think about it

Every teams in baseball cheat(sign stealing)

A guy watching tv at home can just call the manager and relay the signs.... best footage

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #302 on: January 13, 2020, 10:01:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.
cheating when you don't have to is far worse.  A special kind of hubris and arrogance. One of the reasons the Patriots cheating throughout the years has been so vilified (plus the countless times they've done it)
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Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #303 on: January 14, 2020, 01:27:23 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.

Yeah Iím simply talking about Jim Craneís comments that the title isnít tainted. There is very strong reason to cast doubt over their run that postseason. They did win two games in LA that World Series, whereas their bats were completely silent in NY (5 runs in 3 games... return to Houston to score 11 in games 6 & 7).

Which makes the 2018 ALCS almost fascinating. Did neither cheat because they both knew their tricks, or were both so brazen to do it anyway?

Honestly, the penalty is steep but is it enough? Iím pretty sure Dodgers and Yankees fans would trade some draft picks, dump their managers, and raise ticket prices (to subsidize hefty fine) for titles.

I think vacating titles is tricky, but Iím not opposed to asterisks. I donít understand how they can be found guilty of cheating not only in the regular season (both teams had best record that season) but in the playoffs, accept a hefty penalty, and the championship is recognized the same as all others?
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Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #304 on: January 14, 2020, 01:40:27 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Dont fire Cora

Cheating accusation is funny if you think about it

Every teams in baseball cheat(sign stealing)

A guy watching tv at home can just call the manager and relay the signs.... best footage

You canít have any electronic device (thatís internet/cellular enabled) in a dugout. So that includes cell phones and smart watches (and tablets with WiFi/cellular).

Itís fine to steal signs if you got a guy on second looking in and figuring them out. Using technology isnít the same.

Cora is a goner. Apparently instrumental in orchestrating cheating schemes for two different organizations, both resulting in championships. Once his penalty is handed down, Iím sure the Sox will follow in the Astros footsteps. Beltran may very well get the axe too (but itís the Mets, so nothing would surprise me there).
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Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #305 on: January 14, 2020, 02:42:04 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I think the time has come to make sign stealing against the rules. 100 years ago there was no technology, so if you could work out signs using the naked eye, good for you. It was a bit like being able to interpret a pitcher's tics if they happened at the same time as him pitching certain pitches. But these days you have multiple cameras at all angles, instant replay, monitors, smartphones, smart watches, hell you could even get the 2nd baseman wear a pinhole camera trained on the catcher. Or as Shaqattack said just have some dude watching the TV broadcast and calling the dugout whenever the TV shows the signs. Silly to have sign stealing legal but not allow it if it's technologically aided. Just make sign-stealing of any type against the rules and come down hard on anyone that does it, whether it's a one off or systematic. That sends a clear message against cheating.

Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #306 on: January 14, 2020, 04:50:50 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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Bob Nightengale
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MLB has begun their investigation into the #Redsox today, and Alex Cora likely will be suspended at least one year by the time it concludes.


Things just keep getting better for the Sox.  Cost cutting owner, likely to lose the signature star of the team, and now their most recent WS is likely tainted by cheating and the manager is probably going to get suspended.

I'm sure Henry will use the Globe to provide another timely Patriots hit piece, though, to distract from what is about to happen to the Sox organization.

Yeah, that should do it  ::) ::) ::) ::)

I love the Pats as much as anyone. But these sorts of comments are embarrassing.

The Pats' dysfunction has nothing to do with the Boston Globe. Literally every media outlet in New England has been taking the same shots at them for years.

So blame WEEI, blame Sports Hub, blame NBC Boston, blame everyone. Even in Portland ME they are talking about the same stuff. The drama isn't coming from BB, Kraft, and Brady. It is John Henry. He is the mastermind  behind all of it. Heck, I'm pretty sure he's been drugging the Pats' receivers and O-line to make the Patriots look bad.

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #307 on: January 14, 2020, 04:56:05 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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Like Aaron Boone and the Yankees aren't up to something. The guy who played with all sorts of blatant juicers and whose team hits hundreds of HR's per year at home. Come on now.

We live in an age where literally everyone could use their phone to steal signs.

It probably runs 10x deeper than what is being reported.

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #308 on: January 14, 2020, 06:47:48 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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  Iíve never known bigger Celtic bashers than Sox fans so Iím quietly enjoying yet another scandal from baseball.

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #309 on: January 14, 2020, 08:09:32 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.
cheating when you don't have to is far worse.  A special kind of hubris and arrogance. One of the reasons the Patriots cheating throughout the years has been so vilified (plus the countless times they've done it)

The Pats 'cheating' has reached tall-tale status. What have they really done - recorded another team's sideline from a certain area of the stadium when it was allowed the previous year? Supposedly deflated footballs and then went out and put up an epic 2nd half with properly inflated footballs? Asked CLE's permission to film, but did not get permission from the NFL (the football side has been cleared by the way)? I get it, there is a lot of smoke, but it's just easy to crap on the Pats because of their success...it leads to jealousy.

As for this scandal, yeah, it's a lot more obvious than anything the Pats have ever done. Banging on cans to tip pitches is like laughably dumb. I do agree with kraidstar that there is probably a lot more out there than we'll ever know in all sports. The Pats have been an easy target because they were 'caught' early and are the best team ever, but how many teams still suck even after cheating and never even get looked at?

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #310 on: January 14, 2020, 09:03:21 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Quote
Bob Nightengale
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MLB has begun their investigation into the #Redsox today, and Alex Cora likely will be suspended at least one year by the time it concludes.


Things just keep getting better for the Sox.  Cost cutting owner, likely to lose the signature star of the team, and now their most recent WS is likely tainted by cheating and the manager is probably going to get suspended.

I'm sure Henry will use the Globe to provide another timely Patriots hit piece, though, to distract from what is about to happen to the Sox organization.

Yeah, that should do it  ::) ::) ::) ::)

I love the Pats as much as anyone. But these sorts of comments are embarrassing.

The Pats' dysfunction has nothing to do with the Boston Globe. Literally every media outlet in New England has been taking the same shots at them for years.

So blame WEEI, blame Sports Hub, blame NBC Boston, blame everyone. Even in Portland ME they are talking about the same stuff. The drama isn't coming from BB, Kraft, and Brady. It is John Henry. He is the mastermind  behind all of it. Heck, I'm pretty sure he's been drugging the Pats' receivers and O-line to make the Patriots look bad.

So I take it you work for the Globe?

You really think the Boston Globe takes the same level of professional skepticism & unvarnished looks at the Red Sox as they do with the Patriots?  The publication that's owned by John Henry?


« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 09:08:45 AM by Donoghus »


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Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #311 on: January 14, 2020, 09:58:23 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale

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MLB has begun their investigation into the #Redsox today, and Alex Cora likely will be suspended at least one year by the time it concludes.


Things just keep getting better for the Sox.  Cost cutting owner, likely to lose the signature star of the team, and now their most recent WS is likely tainted by cheating and the manager is probably going to get suspended.

I'm sure Henry will use the Globe to provide another timely Patriots hit piece, though, to distract from what is about to happen to the Sox organization.

Yeah, that should do it  ::) ::) ::) ::)

I love the Pats as much as anyone. But these sorts of comments are embarrassing.

The Pats' dysfunction has nothing to do with the Boston Globe. Literally every media outlet in New England has been taking the same shots at them for years.

So blame WEEI, blame Sports Hub, blame NBC Boston, blame everyone. Even in Portland ME they are talking about the same stuff. The drama isn't coming from BB, Kraft, and Brady. It is John Henry. He is the mastermind  behind all of it. Heck, I'm pretty sure he's been drugging the Pats' receivers and O-line to make the Patriots look bad.

So I take it you work for the Globe?

You really think the Boston Globe takes the same level of professional skepticism & unvarnished looks at the Red Sox as they do with the Patriots?  The publication that's owned by John Henry?

Itís a time-honored practice with the Globe and the Sox, even before Henry.  Remember Mo Vaughn?  He went from beloved slugger and all around great guy to the overweight vagabond spending all his time at strip clubs.
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Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #312 on: January 14, 2020, 10:08:12 AM »

Offline footey

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.
cheating when you don't have to is far worse.  A special kind of hubris and arrogance. One of the reasons the Patriots cheating throughout the years has been so vilified (plus the countless times they've done it)

Haters gonna hate. 

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #313 on: January 14, 2020, 10:10:26 AM »

Offline footey

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.
cheating when you don't have to is far worse.  A special kind of hubris and arrogance. One of the reasons the Patriots cheating throughout the years has been so vilified (plus the countless times they've done it)

The Pats 'cheating' has reached tall-tale status. What have they really done - recorded another team's sideline from a certain area of the stadium when it was allowed the previous year? Supposedly deflated footballs and then went out and put up an epic 2nd half with properly inflated footballs? Asked CLE's permission to film, but did not get permission from the NFL (the football side has been cleared by the way)? I get it, there is a lot of smoke, but it's just easy to crap on the Pats because of their success...it leads to jealousy.

As for this scandal, yeah, it's a lot more obvious than anything the Pats have ever done. Banging on cans to tip pitches is like laughably dumb. I do agree with kraidstar that there is probably a lot more out there than we'll ever know in all sports. The Pats have been an easy target because they were 'caught' early and are the best team ever, but how many teams still suck even after cheating and never even get looked at?

Yeah, these types are criticism are mostly fueled by jealousy. But go easy on him. His team just embarrassed itself last weekend vs Titans. Feel bad for him.

Re: 2020 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #314 on: January 14, 2020, 11:38:24 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I simply cannot believe how these teams thought they wouldnít get caught. In this day and age (with social media and video analysis), itís very hard to get away with stuff like this.

Yankees made claims about both the Astros and the Sox, so they knew it was happening. Youíd think they would stop doing it, knowing someone was on to them.

I donít see how how an owner (the Astros today, and presumably the Red Sox soon) can admit guilt, fire the ones in charge, and then say their title isnít tainted. They went 0-3 in Yankee Stadium that ALCS, but 4-0 at home. Not much of a stretch to think without their unfair signal-stealing at home, they donít reach the World Series.

Whatever punishment Cora gets, probably isnít enough.

I am not here to defend what either team did, but at least the Sox never lost more than one game in any one series during their run; the Astros went the distance in the ALCS and WS. One would have to think the Astros would have been more likely to lose to the Yankees or Dodgers than the Sox in 2018.

Totally agree on Cora, though.
cheating when you don't have to is far worse.  A special kind of hubris and arrogance. One of the reasons the Patriots cheating throughout the years has been so vilified (plus the countless times they've done it)

The Pats 'cheating' has reached tall-tale status. What have they really done - recorded another team's sideline from a certain area of the stadium when it was allowed the previous year? Supposedly deflated footballs and then went out and put up an epic 2nd half with properly inflated footballs? Asked CLE's permission to film, but did not get permission from the NFL (the football side has been cleared by the way)? I get it, there is a lot of smoke, but it's just easy to crap on the Pats because of their success...it leads to jealousy.

As for this scandal, yeah, it's a lot more obvious than anything the Pats have ever done. Banging on cans to tip pitches is like laughably dumb. I do agree with kraidstar that there is probably a lot more out there than we'll ever know in all sports. The Pats have been an easy target because they were 'caught' early and are the best team ever, but how many teams still suck even after cheating and never even get looked at?

Well said. TP.

Dont fire Cora

Cheating accusation is funny if you think about it

Every teams in baseball cheat(sign stealing)

A guy watching tv at home can just call the manager and relay the signs.... best footage

You canít have any electronic device (thatís internet/cellular enabled) in a dugout. So that includes cell phones and smart watches (and tablets with WiFi/cellular).

Itís fine to steal signs if you got a guy on second looking in and figuring them out. Using technology isnít the same.

Cora is a goner. Apparently instrumental in orchestrating cheating schemes for two different organizations, both resulting in championships. Once his penalty is handed down, Iím sure the Sox will follow in the Astros footsteps. Beltran may very well get the axe too (but itís the Mets, so nothing would surprise me there).

I wouldn't say "it's fine" to do thatóif the other team thinks you're doing this, they're gonna get ticked off and say something to you about it, maybe even start a brawl over it (even though they're probably doing the same thing).

I think the time has come to make sign stealing against the rules. 100 years ago there was no technology, so if you could work out signs using the naked eye, good for you. It was a bit like being able to interpret a pitcher's tics if they happened at the same time as him pitching certain pitches. But these days you have multiple cameras at all angles, instant replay, monitors, smartphones, smart watches, hell you could even get the 2nd baseman wear a pinhole camera trained on the catcher. Or as Shaqattack said just have some dude watching the TV broadcast and calling the dugout whenever the TV shows the signs. Silly to have sign stealing legal but not allow it if it's technologically aided. Just make sign-stealing of any type against the rules and come down hard on anyone that does it, whether it's a one off or systematic. That sends a clear message against cheating.

I agree that if sign stealing is against the rules, it should be punished in all instances ... but why are they still using hand signals and expecting people to be on the honor system? People involved in competitions are always looking for an edge, and even more so when those competitions are now worth millions upon millions of dollars, and we have all kinds of sophisticated technology that can be used for illegal purposes, so of course there are going to be quite a few people who don't just "push the envelope" but straight-up cheat (doesn't make it right, but that's how it is). So why don't they use modern-day technology to deal with this, like having pitchers and catchers wear earbuds that are on a secure channel, through which the manager can call the pitches? I know that some catchers call pitches, and pitchers like to shake off pitches, but maybe that's something that needs to change. Otherwise, some players and teams will keep stealing signs, and we'll keep having these scandals.
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