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NBC Sport and race article
« on: March 11, 2019, 04:23:42 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Claims players were resentful of playing time Hayward got and that he was favored and white.
Danny and Brad were resolute in there playing Hayward and him getting his minutes and confidence back.
I know i was not happy having to watch Hayward but he was an all star out West and is getting paid 130 million for being a very good basketball player then not because he is white.
We have 15 games left and we will need a confidant Hayward at both ends of court for the playoffs.

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 04:31:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote from: SAS
And then there’s the element of Boston, Massachusetts. They don’t just want a star. Of course, they’ll take any star that they can get, because their priority is winning. But everybody and their mother knows that particularly when it comes to Boston, if we can have a white superstar, that would be even better. And they view Gordon Hayward as having that kind of potential.

So, all of those things considered, the players recognize this, were aware of this. And ultimately those who were compromised by having to be on a court with Gordon Hayward were sensitive to it.

Not because they don’t like him. Not because he’s not a good guy, because he is a good guy. It’s just that they know he hasn’t fully recovered 100 percent from his injury. So, he’s not the same as he used to be. They know he’s going to be a step slower. They know he’s going to be compromised. I have spoken to people in the league who literally have said, “Look man, no disrespect to Gordon Hayward, nice guy, but he’s really, really compromised right now. He’s not the same guy that he was.” And they said, “We actually kind of feel sorry for him, because he is a nice guy, and we know he’s trying to come back from injury.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-gordon-hayward-celtics-players-182429210.html

I think the idea that Boston prefers a white superstar is 30+ years outdated.


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Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2019, 04:36:58 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote from: SAS
And then there’s the element of Boston, Massachusetts. They don’t just want a star. Of course, they’ll take any star that they can get, because their priority is winning. But everybody and their mother knows that particularly when it comes to Boston, if we can have a white superstar, that would be even better. And they view Gordon Hayward as having that kind of potential.

So, all of those things considered, the players recognize this, were aware of this. And ultimately those who were compromised by having to be on a court with Gordon Hayward were sensitive to it.

Not because they don’t like him. Not because he’s not a good guy, because he is a good guy. It’s just that they know he hasn’t fully recovered 100 percent from his injury. So, he’s not the same as he used to be. They know he’s going to be a step slower. They know he’s going to be compromised. I have spoken to people in the league who literally have said, “Look man, no disrespect to Gordon Hayward, nice guy, but he’s really, really compromised right now. He’s not the same guy that he was.” And they said, “We actually kind of feel sorry for him, because he is a nice guy, and we know he’s trying to come back from injury.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-gordon-hayward-celtics-players-182429210.html

I think the idea that Boston prefers a white superstar is 30+ years outdated.

I remember 3-4 years of furor about the possibility of getting Kevin Love so there might be something to it yet.

I can't help but notice in that quote he's implying the hell out of having gotten Celtics players opinions on Hayward but never actually using language that would confirm it, especially not anything to do with race which is entirely his own editorializing. Much ado about nothing unless something more substantially sourced comes out.

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 04:42:31 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I think boston has a dark racist corner that is probably bigger than i would hope. However, this is likely true of many many cities. And i would agree in terms if mainstream boston, race is not much of an issue. Wasnt the kg/rondo/allen contingent quicly loved? Isnt pierce an icon? Who is the face of the red sox curse breakers? Ortiz then pedro. Itsbnit like brady hasnt been turned on by the media about 4 differebt times before they turn it around.

I believe there has been resentment vs hayward. He was/is very compeomised and based on impact has earned about 10% of his minutes this year and force fed the rest. But i think the reason for forcefeeding minutes is overwhelmingly because getting hayward back to 90-100% is easily in the teams best interest. Maybe it wont work, but thats the plan, and i get how that would be frustratung to a young guy. The next reason would be contract investment. Next would be resentment for hayeard and brad’s pre existing relationship. Way after that, as innot at all, is his race.

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2019, 04:42:48 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Quote from: SAS
And then there’s the element of Boston, Massachusetts. They don’t just want a star. Of course, they’ll take any star that they can get, because their priority is winning. But everybody and their mother knows that particularly when it comes to Boston, if we can have a white superstar, that would be even better. And they view Gordon Hayward as having that kind of potential.

So, all of those things considered, the players recognize this, were aware of this. And ultimately those who were compromised by having to be on a court with Gordon Hayward were sensitive to it.

Not because they don’t like him. Not because he’s not a good guy, because he is a good guy. It’s just that they know he hasn’t fully recovered 100 percent from his injury. So, he’s not the same as he used to be. They know he’s going to be a step slower. They know he’s going to be compromised. I have spoken to people in the league who literally have said, “Look man, no disrespect to Gordon Hayward, nice guy, but he’s really, really compromised right now. He’s not the same guy that he was.” And they said, “We actually kind of feel sorry for him, because he is a nice guy, and we know he’s trying to come back from injury.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-gordon-hayward-celtics-players-182429210.html

I think the idea that Boston prefers a white superstar is 30+ years outdated.

Ortiz, Pedro, Pierce, Mookie, KG...

Yeah,  I'd say so.


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Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 04:44:04 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
I remember 3-4 years of furor about the possibility of getting Kevin Love so there might be something to it yet.

In fairness, Love looked like a prototypical PF for awhile. He was in the near-elite category as a scorer, rebounder and passer. Then, the league changed, and slow-footed bigs found themselves either as centers or benched.


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Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2019, 04:56:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote from: SAS
And then there’s the element of Boston, Massachusetts. They don’t just want a star. Of course, they’ll take any star that they can get, because their priority is winning. But everybody and their mother knows that particularly when it comes to Boston, if we can have a white superstar, that would be even better. And they view Gordon Hayward as having that kind of potential.

So, all of those things considered, the players recognize this, were aware of this. And ultimately those who were compromised by having to be on a court with Gordon Hayward were sensitive to it.

Not because they don’t like him. Not because he’s not a good guy, because he is a good guy. It’s just that they know he hasn’t fully recovered 100 percent from his injury. So, he’s not the same as he used to be. They know he’s going to be a step slower. They know he’s going to be compromised. I have spoken to people in the league who literally have said, “Look man, no disrespect to Gordon Hayward, nice guy, but he’s really, really compromised right now. He’s not the same guy that he was.” And they said, “We actually kind of feel sorry for him, because he is a nice guy, and we know he’s trying to come back from injury.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-gordon-hayward-celtics-players-182429210.html

I think the idea that Boston prefers a white superstar is 30+ years outdated.

Ortiz, Pedro, Pierce, Mookie, KG...

Yeah,  I'd say so.
Then there are the non superstars that people loved

Rondo, Antoine, DJ, Reggie Lewis, Marcus Smart, Jayson Tatum, Isaiah Thomas, Troy Brown, Ty Law, Vince Wolfork, DJ Martinez, Mike Lowell, Nomar, Manny Ramirez, JBJ, Xander.

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2019, 05:14:44 PM »

Offline td450

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Smith's role is unfortunately a conflation of news and opinion. Was he reporting some sort of specific knowledge of Boston and the perspective of its players, or was he just blurting out what was on his mind? Given the volume of comments his job demands, I'm going to go with the latter until I hear otherwise.

Its bad enough that Smith says stuff like this without attribution, but other media then echoes the comments, again without knowing whether Smith was offering an opinion or reported knowledge.

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2019, 05:55:36 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I believe there could be some truth to it. I know it’s a stigma from the pre-90’s Celtics (despite Red and the Celtics being at the forefront of African-American firsts in the NBA), and even up until the KG trade, he wasn’t fond of Boston for that reason (and quickly realized that was a false narrative).

I don’t recall seeing any visiting player get the love that Dirk got recently. And the crazy love affair with Doncic on these boards?

Sure we can name tons of non-Caucasian stars who are heroes here, but SAS prefaced it by saying they want any star they can get. Nobody is saying we would’ve traded Pierce for Mike Dunleavy or KG for Tyler Hansbrough. We love great players, regardless of race/ethnicity.

But is there an affinity for white players? Doesn’t seem like such a stretch to me.
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Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 05:58:06 PM »

Offline gpap

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The article is total horse s** and I am getting so tired of the race card being played.

And not many play it better than Stephen A.

Fans gravitate towards winning players and for me, racism has nothing to do with it. Are there racist sports fans in Boston? Of course. But they also exist in every sports city in the country (and the world for that matter.)

It's articles like these that stir the racial pot more so than the topic actually being discussed.

Stephen A. is just speculating and that's it. I'd like to think that if Hayward was awful at basketball, then no one would give a [dang] if he was playing or not. However, he's a former all-star being paid 30 million, so Brad needed to see if he was healthy enough to be in the starting lineup. It makes no sense to have a 30 million dollar player coming off the bench, unless he isn't 100% right, which Hayward wasn't. Therefore, Brad took him out of the starting lineup.

So what's the big deal?

Stephen A. should keep his ill-informed opinions to himself and think before he releases his diarrhea of the mouth, because that's all he's doing.

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 06:04:44 PM »

Offline CelticsPoetry

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I believe there could be some truth to it. I know it’s a stigma from the pre-90’s Celtics (despite Red and the Celtics being at the forefront of African-American firsts in the NBA), and even up until the KG trade, he wasn’t fond of Boston for that reason (and quickly realized that was a false narrative).

I don’t recall seeing any visiting player get the love that Dirk got recently. And the crazy love affair with Doncic on these boards?

Sure we can name tons of non-Caucasian stars who are heroes here, but SAS prefaced it by saying they want any star they can get. Nobody is saying we would’ve traded Pierce for Mike Dunleavy or KG for Tyler Hansbrough. We love great players, regardless of race/ethnicity.

But is there an affinity for white players? Doesn’t seem like such a stretch to me.
Wow man, no disrespect, but if you truly believe what you said, you are part of the problem. Loving Dirk has nothing to do with him being white, he is an absolute legend, one of the greatest of all time, a role model and a geniunely good guy. And about Doncic - tell me of a prospect as exciting as him in the last 20 years. He is having a historically good rookie season. If race is all you see here, you're no better than the other side. Talk about the pot calling the kette black.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 06:48:02 PM by nickagneta »

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 06:04:54 PM »

Offline gpap

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I believe there could be some truth to it. I know it’s a stigma from the pre-90’s Celtics (despite Red and the Celtics being at the forefront of African-American firsts in the NBA), and even up until the KG trade, he wasn’t fond of Boston for that reason (and quickly realized that was a false narrative).

I don’t recall seeing any visiting player get the love that Dirk got recently. And the crazy love affair with Doncic on these boards?

Sure we can name tons of non-Caucasian stars who are heroes here, but SAS prefaced it by saying they want any star they can get. Nobody is saying we would’ve traded Pierce for Mike Dunleavy or KG for Tyler Hansbrough. We love great players, regardless of race/ethnicity.

But is there an affinity for white players? Doesn’t seem like such a stretch to me.

It is a stretch and this archaic way of thinking needs to stop.

Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant got cheered when they visited Boston. Are either one of them white? I've been to many Celtics games this season where the starting lineup (post Hayward starting) gets introduced and they all receive huge ovations!! Are there any players in our starting lineup that are white? Didn't think so.

I am caucasian and my two favorite Boston athletes are Kyrie Irving and Mookie Betts. Are either of them white?

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2019, 06:07:57 PM »

Offline CelticsPoetry

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I believe there could be some truth to it. I know it’s a stigma from the pre-90’s Celtics (despite Red and the Celtics being at the forefront of African-American firsts in the NBA), and even up until the KG trade, he wasn’t fond of Boston for that reason (and quickly realized that was a false narrative).

I don’t recall seeing any visiting player get the love that Dirk got recently. And the crazy love affair with Doncic on these boards?

Sure we can name tons of non-Caucasian stars who are heroes here, but SAS prefaced it by saying they want any star they can get. Nobody is saying we would’ve traded Pierce for Mike Dunleavy or KG for Tyler Hansbrough. We love great players, regardless of race/ethnicity.

But is there an affinity for white players? Doesn’t seem like such a stretch to me.

It is a stretch and this archaic way of thinking needs to stop.

Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant got cheered when they visited Boston. Are either one of them white? I've been to many Celtics games this season where the starting lineup (post Hayward starting) gets introduced and they all receive huge ovations!! Are there any players in our starting lineup that are white? Didn't think so.
Cant you see how racist it is to pay black players millions of dollars to play basketball?

Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2019, 06:12:02 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Back in the 70's or earlier, it was a talking point. Since then it's just a dumb angle that lazy reporters try to dredge up every so often.  Replace Hayward with  - 'pick a white player who's good' - and they'll dredge up the same garbage.

Guy just outed himself as being totally clueless about the city of Boston.  Where was he during the Sidney Wicks days to complain that Boston fans were racist because they thought Wicks sucked?


Re: NBC Sport and race article
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2019, 06:21:17 PM »

Offline action781

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Quote from: SAS
And then there’s the element of Boston, Massachusetts. They don’t just want a star. Of course, they’ll take any star that they can get, because their priority is winning. But everybody and their mother knows that particularly when it comes to Boston, if we can have a white superstar, that would be even better. And they view Gordon Hayward as having that kind of potential.

So, all of those things considered, the players recognize this, were aware of this. And ultimately those who were compromised by having to be on a court with Gordon Hayward were sensitive to it.

Not because they don’t like him. Not because he’s not a good guy, because he is a good guy. It’s just that they know he hasn’t fully recovered 100 percent from his injury. So, he’s not the same as he used to be. They know he’s going to be a step slower. They know he’s going to be compromised. I have spoken to people in the league who literally have said, “Look man, no disrespect to Gordon Hayward, nice guy, but he’s really, really compromised right now. He’s not the same guy that he was.” And they said, “We actually kind of feel sorry for him, because he is a nice guy, and we know he’s trying to come back from injury.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-gordon-hayward-celtics-players-182429210.html

I think the idea that Boston prefers a white superstar is 30+ years outdated.

I think Boston has and is progressing well in terms of moving on from a racist past.  I think the idea of Boston being a racist city is likely outdated now, but I don't think is 30 years outdated.  It took until 2013 for our biggest sports legend of all time -- Bill Russell -- to get a statue here while in years prior we were erecting a statue for Bobby Orr, naming a tunnel after Ted Williams, etc.  In 2017, we got David Ortiz Way.  I would say it wasn't until the 2000s that the city of Boston actually deserved some credit for shedding its racist reputation.  And it takes a lot of continuous efforts for a decades-long reputation to be deservedly put away.  Glad we've been undertaking those efforts and hope we continue to do so.

That said, I think this particular example of Gordon is incorrect.  We are giving him more minutes than he deserves and we "want" him to be a superstar, because he has proven that he is a superstar and we are paying him superstar money.  It's really quite simple.  It's like why Portland kept playing Brandon Roy 27 min per game the season before he retired even though he was worse than Hayward is today.

 

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