Report: Irving has grown 'Disengaged, Detached' From Celtics

[PhoSita]

Super naive to think they aren't making bank off this circus. 

Didn't say they weren't. 

Doesn't mean this whole thing is just completely fabricated and everything's fine.


But I guess we live in the era of "Fake News" right?

[GreenFaith1819]

I'll try to place myself in Kyrie's shoes - at least from his MINDSET since he's been in BOS:

1st game LAST SEASON - Opens the game in CLE. Sees his Number 1A go down with a GRUESOME foot injury. The team deals with this and almost beats CLE anyway.

Team then goes onto lose against MIL - in BOS. Team is obviously still reeling a bit from GH going down in the manner he did.

Coach Stevens then reportedly pulls the team aside, gathers them up and encourages / coaches them for the rest of the season - basically telling them that GH will be FINE but they - in return - need to pull themselves together and COMPETE.

They then run off 17 games in a row. Kyrie is MAGNIFICENT during this run and Tatum, JB, Smart, Big Al and Rozier play big roles during this run as well.

Team plays well - WITH KYRIE  - for the remainder of the season. Team plays FOR EACH OTHER. Kyrie then eventually goes down for good for knee surgery to ENSURE that he is completely healthy and ready for THIS SEASON....

As a fan base, I got the impression that we'd be happy with "JUST" a first round win in the playoffs last season. Who here thought that our young Celtics cold challenge ANYONE? Well, we all know that we challenged CLE - with LeBron - for SEVEN GAMES....without Kyrie OR GH...Tatum, JB, Rozer, Smart and Big Al stepped up Big Time....they made it to the ECF....a simply MAGICAL run...

Fast forward to NOW?

Media outlets pick us to challenge GSW in the finals....Kyrie and GH taking turns LEADING this team...Tatum, JB and Rozier still contributing but making room for GH's return....

Well, GH has NOT returned, YET...not the GH we all know....not the GH that Kyrie expected or NEEDED...."THAT" GH will probably not be back in full force until next season, unfortunately.

Now, fold this POOP SANDWICH into the fact that Kyrie has NOW been FORCED into changing his OWN game...being more of a facilitator....dude is a natural (and gifted) scorer. The facilitator in the starting lineup was SUPPOSED TO BE Gordon Hayward.

Kyrie's season has been thrown into disarray. Media attacks...teammates not wanting to accept roles...his OWN growth as a leader....unfounded rumors....countless "SAUCES".....not sources....

Season was NOT supposed to be like this, for Kyrie. I understand that things happen but a LOT of this stuff has been OUT OF HIS CONTROL......

I still believe that Kyrie will stay. I still believe that we'll see the GH we all know and love (and the one that Kyrie NEEDS) back soon. But until THEN I'm on Kyrie's side.

Dude has had some extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with. Not his fault for most of it. Sure - he needs to grow into leadership more. Sure he needs to learn how to speak to his teammates better...be a better teammate. I believe he's trying.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[gpap]

I'll try to place myself in Kyrie's shoes - at least from his MINDSET since he's been in BOS:

1st game LAST SEASON - Opens the game in CLE. Sees his Number 1A go down with a GRUESOME foot injury. The team deals with this and almost beats CLE anyway.

Team then goes onto lose against MIL - in BOS. Team is obviously still reeling a bit from GH going down in the manner he did.

Coach Stevens then reportedly pulls the team aside, gathers them up and encourages / coaches them for the rest of the season - basically telling them that GH will be FINE but they - in return - need to pull themselves together and COMPETE.

They then run off 17 games in a row. Kyrie is MAGNIFICENT during this run and Tatum, JB, Smart, Big Al and Rozier play big roles during this run as well.

Team plays well - WITH KYRIE  - for the remainder of the season. Team plays FOR EACH OTHER. Kyrie then eventually goes down for good for knee surgery to ENSURE that he is completely healthy and ready for THIS SEASON....

As a fan base, I got the impression that we'd be happy with "JUST" a first round win in the playoffs last season. Who here thought that our young Celtics cold challenge ANYONE? Well, we all know that we challenged CLE - with LeBron - for SEVEN GAMES....without Kyrie OR GH...Tatum, JB, Rozer, Smart and Big Al stepped up Big Time....they made it to the ECF....a simply MAGICAL run...

Fast forward to NOW?

Media outlets pick us to challenge GSW in the finals....Kyrie and GH taking turns LEADING this team...Tatum, JB and Rozier still contributing but making room for GH's return....

Well, GH has NOT returned, YET...not the GH we all know....not the GH that Kyrie expected or NEEDED...."THAT" GH will probably not be back in full force until next season, unfortunately.

Now, fold this POOP SANDWICH into the fact that Kyrie has NOW been FORCED into changing his OWN game...being more of a facilitator....dude is a natural (and gifted) scorer. The facilitator in the starting lineup was SUPPOSED TO BE Gordon Hayward.

Kyrie's season has been thrown into disarray. Media attacks...teammates not wanting to accept roles...his OWN growth as a leader....unfounded rumors....countless "SAUCES".....not sources....

Season was NOT supposed to be like this, for Kyrie. I understand that things happen but a LOT of this stuff has been OUT OF HIS CONTROL......

I still believe that Kyrie will stay. I still believe that we'll see the GH we all know and love (and the one that Kyrie NEEDS) back soon. But until THEN I'm on Kyrie's side.

Dude has had some extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with. Not his fault for most of it. Sure - he needs to grow into leadership more. Sure he needs to learn how to speak to his teammates better...be a better teammate. I believe he's trying.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well said. For those saying Kyrie is the issue, how come they were playing so well last season WITH him on the team?

[LarBrd33]

^great point by larbrd

Nba writers make their literal living off any and all drama. When theres no drama they fabricate it. And there's only a handful of NBA  players that fans care about. No one cares about drama involving the John walls and kemba walkers of the world. But when you talk about legitimate superstars like lebron and kyrie. Everyone will click that article bringing in the views that NBA writers need

Yeah it's also funny that we have multiple examples of Marcus Morris and Marcus Smart ripping into Jaylen Brown for blown plays, Terry Rozier essentially admitting he's jealous of the starters and sees them as his competition, the Gordon Hayward article this morning where he admits he could tell his teammates were frustrated that his minutes were contributing to their limited roles and that he himself has been visiting a mental health counselor as he tries to work himself back physically and mentally... meanwhile, you have consistent buzz coming out that Ainge is willing to move everyone on the team for Anthony Davis as if that's not going to be a distraction for frustrated 22 year old kids who are trying to earn big contracts by putting up big stats... and yet all anyone wants to do is point fingers at Kyrie Irving and act like he's creating this drama. It's nonsense.

We lost to the Blazers by 5. Kyrie dropped 31 points with 58% shooting and 60% from three. His teammates went a combined 2-23 from three. A couple games later, Kyrie dropped 24 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists with 64% shooting and 60% from three... the rest of his team went 0-12 from three in the first half.

That's Kyrie's fault? Is he forcing them to suck? He needs to be a better leader so they can magically not brick shots?

I joked about this in the game thread: "It's kyrie’s fault his teammates miss when he’s on the bench. He shouldn’t look his teammates directly in the eyes, it makes them skittish. He should always bow his head and hold out a single finger for them to sniff so they know it’s safe to make the shot. While we're at it, Kyrie's lack of leadership is the reason the Houston Rockets went from almost making the Finals to being a 5th seed team."

[LarBrd33]

I'll try to place myself in Kyrie's shoes - at least from his MINDSET since he's been in BOS:

1st game LAST SEASON - Opens the game in CLE. Sees his Number 1A go down with a GRUESOME foot injury. The team deals with this and almost beats CLE anyway.

Team then goes onto lose against MIL - in BOS. Team is obviously still reeling a bit from GH going down in the manner he did.

Coach Stevens then reportedly pulls the team aside, gathers them up and encourages / coaches them for the rest of the season - basically telling them that GH will be FINE but they - in return - need to pull themselves together and COMPETE.

They then run off 17 games in a row. Kyrie is MAGNIFICENT during this run and Tatum, JB, Smart, Big Al and Rozier play big roles during this run as well.

Team plays well - WITH KYRIE  - for the remainder of the season. Team plays FOR EACH OTHER. Kyrie then eventually goes down for good for knee surgery to ENSURE that he is completely healthy and ready for THIS SEASON....

As a fan base, I got the impression that we'd be happy with "JUST" a first round win in the playoffs last season. Who here thought that our young Celtics cold challenge ANYONE? Well, we all know that we challenged CLE - with LeBron - for SEVEN GAMES....without Kyrie OR GH...Tatum, JB, Rozer, Smart and Big Al stepped up Big Time....they made it to the ECF....a simply MAGICAL run...

Fast forward to NOW?

Media outlets pick us to challenge GSW in the finals....Kyrie and GH taking turns LEADING this team...Tatum, JB and Rozier still contributing but making room for GH's return....

Well, GH has NOT returned, YET...not the GH we all know....not the GH that Kyrie expected or NEEDED...."THAT" GH will probably not be back in full force until next season, unfortunately.

Now, fold this POOP SANDWICH into the fact that Kyrie has NOW been FORCED into changing his OWN game...being more of a facilitator....dude is a natural (and gifted) scorer. The facilitator in the starting lineup was SUPPOSED TO BE Gordon Hayward.

Kyrie's season has been thrown into disarray. Media attacks...teammates not wanting to accept roles...his OWN growth as a leader....unfounded rumors....countless "SAUCES".....not sources....

Season was NOT supposed to be like this, for Kyrie. I understand that things happen but a LOT of this stuff has been OUT OF HIS CONTROL......

I still believe that Kyrie will stay. I still believe that we'll see the GH we all know and love (and the one that Kyrie NEEDS) back soon. But until THEN I'm on Kyrie's side.

Dude has had some extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with. Not his fault for most of it. Sure - he needs to grow into leadership more. Sure he needs to learn how to speak to his teammates better...be a better teammate. I believe he's trying.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

If you want to put yourself in Kyrie's shoes...

He didn't have Boston on his initial trade destination list, but that's mainly because nobody considered them a possibility given Isaiah was here.  He admits he was excited about the opportunity when he learned they were interested.

He's publicly stated that he wants to play with other stars and compete for a championship.  The appeal of Boston was that he was joining a team with two stars (Hayward and Horford) that had all the pieces to add a 3rd (someone like Kawhi, Butler ... or maybe Davis). 

Hayward gets injured.

He leads them on a 16 game win streak.

He gets injured.

The team overachieves in a couple playoff series (knocking off the Bucks in 7 games in large part, because Rozier had career stats) before crapping the bed in Game 7 vs LeBron. 

This roster is a mess.  Too many guys unhappy in their roles.  Nobody has consistently stepped up.  Players are playing for contracts.  There's arguments between young guys like Jaylen and vets like Morris.  Consistently hear Rozier is unhappy.   Hayward isn't right.  Tatum hasn't made a leap.  Rotations have been questionable.  His free agency and the potential the team will trade everyone for Anthony Davis hovers over this entire season, he's consistently having his comments taken out of context, it's a 24/7 media onslaught and now the fans are turning against him...  the losing has everyone frustrated... 

Instead of playing with 3 other all-stars he's the only guys on the team consistently playing at that level.  He's also the scapegoat for a laundry list of troubles (see my most post above) despite his exceptional play.

Despite all of this, he's has consistently repeated that he's confident in this team's ability if they play the right way, he doesn't see anyone beating them in a 7 game series, at this point he's just ready for the playoffs... we see him laughing/joking with his teammates in practice... he's repeated that he continues to see the Celtics as the frontrunner to re-sign him and he still believes in the future of this team...

But yeah, a lot can happen leading into this Summer.  I still think (assuming the media and fans don't drive him out of town), his decision is going to come down to whether he and Ainge can get on the same page this Summer.  That might, unfortunately, involve gutting this roster.  Going after Anthony Davis is obviously something that will be discussed, but I also think Kevin Durant sign-and-trade (or opt-in-and-trade) will be something else the team will pursue.   If there's any truth to Kyrie cooling off from his teammates maybe it's out of recognition that one way or another none of these guys will be his teammates next season.  Either he leaves, or we build a team he wants to stay on.

[petbrick]

Super naive to think they aren't making bank off this circus. 

Didn't say they weren't. 

Doesn't mean this whole thing is just completely fabricated and everything's fine.


But I guess we live in the era of "Fake News" right?

Correct. This story is a story because someone related to the team wanted to send out a public message that they don't think Irving is as engages as the source, whoever it is, wants KI to be.

As much fun as the narratives portrayed above are, this isn't television, and television logic should not be the sole lens in which this is viewed, no matter how many words someone is willing to type on the subject (although since it was brought up I sadly suspect this will be Simmons's enduring legacy to sportswriting, and the world is sadder for it).

Whenever you read a story, it's important to keep in mind who benefits from it. The media don't really care about the substance of the story -- they will publish it because it is a story, and it's March, and anyone in the States not covering the NCAA is thirsty for a story. This, again, is what sports media does, and this is  largely what we want it to do: to give us something to talk about in between games, which can be covered relatively quickly.

Too add: Irving doesn't benefit from it, obviously. Neither does his agent. His teammates? Arguable, but I would say that's unlikely. So who does?

[LarBrd33]

Super naive to think they aren't making bank off this circus. 

Didn't say they weren't. 

Doesn't mean this whole thing is just completely fabricated and everything's fine.


But I guess we live in the era of "Fake News" right?

Correct. This story is a story because someone related to the team wanted to send out a public message

... even though KOC responded to my question (see prior page), it's still unclear if his source is a player/employee on the team or beat writers interpreting what they have access to.  I think it's fair to admit that Kyrie is also a really difficult guy to interpret.  He could be frustrated, but I still see a player who is going to give it 150% once the playoffs hit and I still believe we're going to put together a team he wants to stay on.

[petbrick]

Super naive to think they aren't making bank off this circus. 

Didn't say they weren't. 

Doesn't mean this whole thing is just completely fabricated and everything's fine.


But I guess we live in the era of "Fake News" right?

Correct. This story is a story because someone related to the team wanted to send out a public message

... even though KOC responded to my question (see prior page), it's still unclear if his source is a player/employee on the team or beat writers interpreting what they have access to.  I think it's fair to admit that Kyrie is also a really difficult guy to interpret.  He could be frustrated, but I still see a player who is going to give it 150% once the playoffs hit.

Beat writers interpreting who they have access to, more like.

I'm in agreement with your read by the way; This feels like much ado about nothing amplified by a string of losses after the All Star Break and a relatively disappointing season. Like Roy H. posted earlier, this sort of stuff happens nearly every year. Sometimes it's not worth the inches, sometimes it's March and there's nothing else to cover.

[PhoSita]

Super naive to think they aren't making bank off this circus. 

Didn't say they weren't. 

Doesn't mean this whole thing is just completely fabricated and everything's fine.


But I guess we live in the era of "Fake News" right?

Correct. This story is a story because someone related to the team wanted to send out a public message

... even though KOC responded to my question (see prior page), it's still unclear if his source is a player/employee on the team or beat writers interpreting what they have access to.  I think it's fair to admit that Kyrie is also a really difficult guy to interpret.  He could be frustrated, but I still see a player who is going to give it 150% once the playoffs hit and I still believe we're going to put together a team he wants to stay on.

I don't think most people even loosely associated with journalism would think it's reasonable to characterize another beat reporter as a "source," but you may have a lower opinion of KOC's credibility than I do.

For what it's worth, my impression of KOC ever since he joined  the Ringer is that he's a bit too eager to seem objective when it comes to discussing the Celtics.  But I think he takes his job seriously.

[LarBrd33]

Former CB writer Kevin O’Connor seems like a nice enough guy, but he has never struck me as having legitimate NBA sources, in Boston’s front office or elsewhere.

If sources are telling him that Kyrie looks disenchanted, I assume that’s because they are watching the games and seeing the same thing we all are. He appears at times frustrated, and at other times disengaged during some of our recent losses

I'm a fan of KOC and have exchanged emails with him in the past.  He's a big star now, though so I imagine he'd be too busy to respond to a question about this... but I had to wonder if "source around the team" means an actual Celtic player/employee or if it means someone in the media who is around the team a lot.   Because "disengaged" and "detached" is similar to Jackie Mac recently saying that Kyrie seemed "in a funk" during a recent interview.  I watched that actual interview... he seemed totally fine to me.  And while it's clear he's become "disengaged" and "detached" from the media, that doesn't necessarily mean that's how he interacts with his teammates.  LIke, this is literally a video of Kyrie and Jaylen Brown yesterday... https://streamable.com/o50xl  ... Does he look disengaged and detached? 

Oh boy, JB just called this team “toxic.” Pretty sure he’s referring to Irving.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823623-celtics-news-jaylen-brown-says-bos-needs-to-fix-toxic-environment-around-team

So I can't find a video of this interview, but be mindful that the quote here is that THE LOSING is not a good feeling and is toxic.  I'm gonna take leap here and assume this is the latest in a long line of quotes that are taken out of context.  Brown saying that losing is toxic and them representing it as him saying the culture and relationships are toxic.   I just did an entire deep-dive into Kyrie Irving's last two months of interviews and my big takeaway was that almost all of what he said was fair and reasonable and just got blown way out of proportion by a thirsty 24/7 NBA media news cycle:  https://youtu.be/cRA52uftRrA

I'd go as far as to say the "bad leader" label is unwarranted.

FWIW, I got a response from KOC on Reddit (he's a man of the people!)... Someone had created a thread with a conspiracy theory that KOC was just a mouthpiece for Bill Simmons and writing a Kyrie hit-piece because Bill forced him to.  I just tagged KOC and asked him directly about it: 

When everyone's favorite troll is the one talking the most sense...

This is truly the darkest timeline.

Lol.  I think it's that I've remained relatively consistent while everyone has gotten super pessimistic around me.  Some of my measured/rational takes that were previously despised now look optimistic in retrospect.  Some examples:

Prior to this season, I worried that Hayward's full recovery could take 12-18 months and he might start the season on a minute restriction.  I suggested he could average 10-14 points off the bench.  I was called a concern troll and took hundreds of downvotes on Reddit.  Now as we approach 18 months, I'm actually pretty optimistic Hayward is ready and the biggest issue right now is his limited role ... I'm called a homer.

Prior to this season, I parroted some of the things I was hearing guys like KOC say which was that Jaylen Brown might need to move to the bench for this to work.  I said that I expected Tatum to be the #2 scorer and that Brown would likely see a dip in his production - throwing out that he could average around 12 points.   I was called a troll and took hundreds of downvotes on Reddit from Jaylen Brown fans.   At this point, I find myself frustrated that Brown isn't back in the starting lineup.  The idea of him going to the bench was based on potentially needing to start a healthy Hayward or putting another big like Baynes in there... it makes no sense to me for him to back up role players like Smart and Morris. 

Prior to this season - and immediately following Kyrie's "announcement", I continued to express the sentiment that Kyrie likely had Boston as his top option, but that anything could happen over the course of the season and he would still have a difficult decision to make depending on what his options were in Free agency... I took hundreds of downvotes on Reddit from people calling me a troll.   Now here we are months later and I continue to have the same stance... now I'm seen as  "kyriesexual" for not hating him and thinking there's a chance he stays.

Prior to the season, I repeated multiple times that I liked Sacramento's young core and I had some concern they'd play out of the bottom 5.  Downvotes.  Called an idiot.  Now here we are and I'm just hoping the pick ends up in the lottery... man that one stings, but on the bright side - KG Living Legend owes me another pizza.   

This is a lesser one, but at Marcus Morris' peak I argued in favor of selling high on him and people scoffed because he was having a borderline all-star season.  I'm starting to see a growing buzz from fans who want us to bench him and are looking forward to letting him walk...  we'll see how that one plays out, I guess.
 
*shrug*

[celticsclay]

https://streamable.com/o50xl

End the thread?

[CelticSooner]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Believe what you want to believe I guess.

Everything's fine and it's just the crooked media that's making it seem like the Celtics are dysfunctional.

Every sign is now there that this team is about to flame out. I think people have picked favorites. This place will melt down if Kyrie walks, even though he’s basically showing he doesn’t see this as HIS team.

[LarBrd33]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Believe what you want to believe I guess.

Everything's fine and it's just the crooked media that's making it seem like the Celtics are dysfunctional.

Every sign is now there that this team is about to flame out. I think people have picked favorites. This place will melt down if Kyrie walks, even though he’s basically showing he doesn’t see this as HIS team.

Not saying this will happen, but if we kick the crap out of the Warriors doesn't the narrative shift again?

I'm with Kyrie at this point.  He's going to give it 160% once the playoffs start.  Hes trying to win this franchise a championship.  It's a bummer for the last 18 or so games this season, but we basically know we're going to be the 5th seed at this point... the only thing that really matters is getting into the playoffs healthy and hopefully finishing out the season with some good momentum. 

[GreenFaith1819]

https://streamable.com/o50xl

End the thread?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO............

Kyrie Andrew Irving...having FUN with his teammates?? How dare he....

I can feel the lumps forming in the throats of the NY faithful and the Anti-Celtic media....

Last I heard Kyrie had strapped half the Celtic team to the hood of a car, set it on fire, placed a brick on the gas pedal and steered it towards a cliff....

This video has GOT to be doctored somehow........Kyrie is supposed to be moping in a corner somewhere..with a thumb in his mouth.......

[alt]

I'll try to place myself in Kyrie's shoes - at least from his MINDSET since he's been in BOS:

1st game LAST SEASON - Opens the game in CLE. Sees his Number 1A go down with a GRUESOME foot injury. The team deals with this and almost beats CLE anyway.

Team then goes onto lose against MIL - in BOS. Team is obviously still reeling a bit from GH going down in the manner he did.

Coach Stevens then reportedly pulls the team aside, gathers them up and encourages / coaches them for the rest of the season - basically telling them that GH will be FINE but they - in return - need to pull themselves together and COMPETE.

They then run off 17 games in a row. Kyrie is MAGNIFICENT during this run and Tatum, JB, Smart, Big Al and Rozier play big roles during this run as well.

Team plays well - WITH KYRIE  - for the remainder of the season. Team plays FOR EACH OTHER. Kyrie then eventually goes down for good for knee surgery to ENSURE that he is completely healthy and ready for THIS SEASON....

As a fan base, I got the impression that we'd be happy with "JUST" a first round win in the playoffs last season. Who here thought that our young Celtics cold challenge ANYONE? Well, we all know that we challenged CLE - with LeBron - for SEVEN GAMES....without Kyrie OR GH...Tatum, JB, Rozer, Smart and Big Al stepped up Big Time....they made it to the ECF....a simply MAGICAL run...

Fast forward to NOW?

Media outlets pick us to challenge GSW in the finals....Kyrie and GH taking turns LEADING this team...Tatum, JB and Rozier still contributing but making room for GH's return....

Well, GH has NOT returned, YET...not the GH we all know....not the GH that Kyrie expected or NEEDED...."THAT" GH will probably not be back in full force until next season, unfortunately.

Now, fold this POOP SANDWICH into the fact that Kyrie has NOW been FORCED into changing his OWN game...being more of a facilitator....dude is a natural (and gifted) scorer. The facilitator in the starting lineup was SUPPOSED TO BE Gordon Hayward.

Kyrie's season has been thrown into disarray. Media attacks...teammates not wanting to accept roles...his OWN growth as a leader....unfounded rumors....countless "SAUCES".....not sources....

Season was NOT supposed to be like this, for Kyrie. I understand that things happen but a LOT of this stuff has been OUT OF HIS CONTROL......

I still believe that Kyrie will stay. I still believe that we'll see the GH we all know and love (and the one that Kyrie NEEDS) back soon. But until THEN I'm on Kyrie's side.

Dude has had some extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with. Not his fault for most of it. Sure - he needs to grow into leadership more. Sure he needs to learn how to speak to his teammates better...be a better teammate. I believe he's trying.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well said. For those saying Kyrie is the issue, how come they were playing so well last season WITH him on the team?

Last season, Boston had the #1 defense in the league. Their offense was mediocre - 18th best league wide.

This season their offense is actually better (10th vs 18th) - in that sense, they're playing even better with Kyrie this year. But defense has fallen off (1st vs 6th).

So was Boston playing so well - so much better- with Kyrie in the team last year? They were winning lots of games, thanks to a historically superb D; and mediocre O. Make of that what you will.

Possible explanations (fairly speculative, IOW  my opinion):

1 - Less defensive individual talent on the floor.

Above average (team wide) defensive players who are on pace to play fewer minutes relatively to last season:

Horford: minus 280
Baynes: minus 820
Ojeley: minus 570
Brown: minus 190
Rozier: minus 250

Smart is on pace to play more 470 minutes.

The rest were almost all absorbed by Irving, Morris, Tatum and Hayward.


2 - Team and players are underperfoming defensively in terms of execution and engagement (even relatively to the diminished individual talent). I believe the main reason for this is players being uncomfortable with their roles on offense - a problem that didn't exist last season even though the offense was worse - different expectations. This leads to sloppiness and lack of engagement on defense.

Transition defense is a great example. It doesn't require great defensive individual talent.

Last season Boston allowed 10.5 fastbreak points per game, 4th in the league.
This season Boston is allowing 13 fastbreak points per game, 12th  in the league.

Irving responsibilities, if any:


I don't think Irving is playing worse per se (probably the opposite).

The problem is that the challenge for the team's PG got much bigger. The "bad offense breeding bad defense" issue didn't exist last season.

It came to existence this season due to a change in the individual expectations of different players.

Irving didn't step up to that challenge - managing the team's offense better.

I don't believe that should have been expected of him. Not the type of player he is: scorer + playmaker/shot-creator vs floor-general. First pass to the wing: left or right side of the floor? This sort of decision doesn't come naturally, intuitively to Irving.

In this sense, and afaic only in this sense, Kyrie is the issue.

This is my best answer to your question.