Who's the leader

[celtics4ever33]

bunch of punks.

Kyrie Irving? Of course not. We already know he isn't a leader.

Marcus Smart? Doesn't seem like he is doing the job..

More and more this team is a group of misfits, no leadership, nothing. You can't win a ring without a leader, and even co-leaders.

Pierce = Leader ,  Garnett = Leader , even Ray Allen , quiet and non talkative on the court, was a leader

Morris just made it very clear that this team is volatile group of players, "led" by a point guard who thinks he leads by proving he's the one that's going to win the games. Not by leading the group and being a teammate , but by always feeling the need to put his "lesser" teammates in the places where he thinks they belong.

Is it shocking he one upped one of the most ego centric players of our time in Lebron James , who by the way is still 10 times the player and 10 times the teammate in playing terms.

Look no further than Hayward, who you can easily tell does not feel the love in that locker room, and IMO Irving can give two craps about it.

[KGBirdBias]

Smart and Horford would be my choices. They've been here and know what Stevens wants out of the team.

[PhoSita]

Smart and Horford are the soul of the team.


I do think that one of the core problems for this year's team is that, perhaps, not everybody on the team sees it that way.

Rozier, Tatum, Jaylen etc probably think they're the real heart of the team b/c of the success the team had with them as lead scoring options in the playoffs last year.


Kyrie is the best player on the team but isn't the leader or culture setter.  I tend to think he probably likes it that way, but there could be a disconnect there as well.

[Donoghus]

Let me guess, Rozier is off the hook here, though?

[PhoSita]

Let me guess, Rozier is off the hook here, though?

I would be really interested to see an age breakdown of people who are Rozier stans and/or vehement Hayward haters versus folks who aren't.

[ozgod]

The issue is that there's no clear leader...it's more leadership by committee. Smart tries to lead by example and is probably the emotional heart of our team, but he just doesn't have the ability to take over a game like a LeBum, or KD, or Steph. Kyrie can, but he's still learning how to motivate men and get the best out of them. Al has the experience but he strikes me more as a second-in-charge, he's not the guy who's going to charge through a brick wall and ask you to follow him.

Most of them don't yet have the experience, or the on-court credentials, to be the guy. Guys like Pierce and KG and Ray developed those skills over years of experience. Kyrie would probably fit the bill best, but if you're going to be a leader you need people to follow you and trust in you, you have to celebrate their successes and help them through their deficiencies, you need to know when to exhort and when to cajole, and I think that's still a work in progress for him. Time will tell if he eventually develops that attribute, the same way LeBum did.

[celtics4ever33]

Let me guess, Rozier is off the hook here, though?

I would be really interested to see an age breakdown of people who are Rozier stans and/or vehement Hayward haters versus folks who aren't.

Nobody is off the hook.

But Rozier's importance as it seems is way lower than a Irving,,,and to the fans ...Smart.....

Rozier's role has been reduced mightily, his play has been poor as well, but sometimes it does not even matter if he gets going, he gets subbed out no matter what

great example was last game where he hit some 3's , got subbed out for Smart who missed key three pointers down the stretch.

Again, Rozier doesnt get a pass, but when you have guys who are in the forefront and letting this type of stuff happen , its on them.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

You got to remember that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were all in their early to mid-30s when they won the championship.

Smart is 24. Irving is 27. Tatum is 20. Brown is 21. Hayward is 28.

Baynes and Horford are the oldest guys on the team, but they would be younger than the Big 3 were when they won their championship.

Players need time to develop their sills, and young men need time to learn to lead.

[celtics4ever33]

You got to remember that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were all in their early to mid-30s when they won the championship.

Smart is 24. Irving is 27. Tatum is 20. Brown is 21. Hayward is 28.

Baynes and Horford are the oldest guys on the team, but they would be younger than the Big 3 were when they won their championship.

Players need time to develop their sills, and young men need time to learn to lead.

None of them were in mid 30's, Pierce I think was just turning 30 , so he may have been 29, Ray probably oldest at 32, and Garnett at 31, sure early 30's/

But, That's a good point. Although it just states the fact. It proves what many were thinking about this group. Too young, ready to get another contract, ready to prove. Although you would think Irving who has played with a leader and has won a ring and won big games and been through multiple playoff runs would be able to do this.

[Ogaju]

Irvin is not a leader...

he is too young and inexperienced

He has never led a team before

His winning experience was playing second fiddle to one of the best to ever play the game, certainly the most dominant of his era

His DNPs affect his leadership credentials.

His lack of commitment to the team long term is not leadership. Why follow a guy who might bolt at season's end.

His lack of enthusiastic support for the team when he was injured was not leadership. I said it at the time he should have supported the kids but some here thought it wss okay for him to sit at home.

Rondo is a leader.....Kyrie, not so much. That is okay...not everyone is a leader.

[tstorey_97]

Looking back over the years the "leader" was the leader because of his play and invariably it was his defensive play.

Russell played harder than anyone.
Cowens played harder.
Garnett was the sheriff. Pierce I always saw as the "vice president", but he lead with his play.

I can't imagine Morris or Irving saying anything about this team if Garnett was starting. They too would have been terrified of Russell and Cowens.

Smart was awful the other night passing the ball away, goofing on the bench.
Horford has always lead with his play.

Up until now, Stevens has been the leader...as in a "college" coach.

Irving is a movie star who plays when he wants...and when he does, he's one of the best in the league, but, he's not a leader.

Hayward is new to the team.

Baynes plays his heart out and leads the cheer on the bench. That's all he needs to do to be a leader.

Leaders don't lead with their mouths. I guess it's Horford who needs to tell everyone of his team mates to shut up and play hard.

All summer long they were told how great they were and how they would challenge Golden State. I guess they believed it.


 

[nickagneta]

With a mixture of talent and personalities that are on this team, there should only be one leader.

No not the mercurial, young, superstar PG that is still a bit immature.

No not the youth, they aren't mature enough.

No not the highly paid C/PG that is more a lead by example guy except his example isn't what it used to be.

No not the highly paid, SF/PF that is still trying to find his own game after a horrendous injury.

No not the defensive minded SG who is a historically bad shooter and a hothead.

No, definitely not the PF with one of the most selfish games on the team.

Nope. None of those guys have what it takes to be the leader of this team. And when your team doesn't have that one guy only one person can be their leader....the coach.

And sadly, Brad Stevens has done a sorry job leading this team this year. He needs to get this team all on the same path. He needs to get these guys all having the same goal. He needs to get these guys  to sacrifice for the good of the team. He needs to get these guys playing 100%, 100% of the game.

Lead this team, Brad. Your players don't have a leader, so you need to be it.

[Neurotic Guy]

"bunch of punks."

I don't dispute the seeming dearth of effective leadership on this team.  Chemistry is not where it should be, role knowledge and role acceptance not where it needs to be, lack of leadership -- all probably true.

But, I actually don't see a single player on the team as  a "punk".   All seem like pretty decent people to me.   Lack an effective leader, but not a bunch of punks.   This may not be their year -- but there are lots of guys on this team who I hope will be here when they do get it together.       

[DefenseWinsChamps]

With a mixture of talent and personalities that are on this team, there should only be one leader.

No not the mercurial, young, superstar PG that is still a bit immature.

No not the youth, they aren't mature enough.

No not the highly paid C/PG that is more a lead by example guy except his example isn't what it used to be.

No not the highly paid, SF/PF that is still trying to find his own game after a horrendous injury.

No not the defensive minded SG who is a historically bad shooter and a hothead.

No, definitely not the PF with one of the most selfish games on the team.

Nope. None of those guys have what it takes to be the leader of this team. And when your team doesn't have that one guy only one person can be their leader....the coach.

And sadly, Brad Stevens has done a sorry job leading this team this year. He needs to get this team all on the same path. He needs to get these guys all having the same goal. He needs to get these guys  to sacrifice for the good of the team. He needs to get these guys playing 100%, 100% of the game.

Lead this team, Brad. Your players don't have a leader, so you need to be it.

In case there is anyone else out there that is unwilling to pile on Brad Stevens, but think they are the only one -- I too disagree that Brad Stevens has done a sorry job of leadership this year.

[celtics4ever33]

The issue is that there's no clear leader...it's more leadership by committee. Smart tries to lead by example and is probably the emotional heart of our team, but he just doesn't have the ability to take over a game like a LeBum, or KD, or Steph. Kyrie can, but he's still learning how to motivate men and get the best out of them. Al has the experience but he strikes me more as a second-in-charge, he's not the guy who's going to charge through a brick wall and ask you to follow him.

Most of them don't yet have the experience, or the on-court credentials, to be the guy. Guys like Pierce and KG and Ray developed those skills over years of experience. Kyrie would probably fit the bill best, but if you're going to be a leader you need people to follow you and trust in you, you have to celebrate their successes and help them through their deficiencies, you need to know when to exhort and when to cajole, and I think that's still a work in progress for him. Time will tell if he eventually develops that attribute, the same way LeBum did.

True, ALTHOUGH

Kyrie was a complete loser before Lebron came along....Not to say that Irving had any chance with the teams he had.

Ray took his team to the playoffs and actually did amazing taking the Spurs to game 6, in a pretty [dang] good run for the Sonics. He also made it to game 7 ECF vs the Sixers, although the Bucks team was very talented.

Pierce, we all know he had some good runs

Garnett had some good runs as well


KYRIE? Zip, nothing, basically rode Lebron, then the audacity to want to leave.

Don't get me wrong, still love Kyrie's game and he is a very very very good player and star in this league, but his personality rubs me the wrong way in term of being a winner. Especially now and with this team.

In essence, you are right those big 3 did have the experience, although they also were leaders as well before they got together.