The effect of carrying Hayward

[Hank Finkel]

Hayward is an obsolute bust at this point for the Celtics.  He is coming off the bench and he should at this point.  He is a shell of his former self after his injury.  I am hoping he will regain his form and start to hep this team towards the second half of this season on its quest for a championship.  I am not certain that will happen.  He doesn’t fit into the 3 point shooting system as well as I thought he would.  He looks like a mid range shooter when I watch him play.  His 3point range looks off to me.  His defense has yet to prove anything special either.  I am hopeful that this all gets turned around as the season progresses.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Even as a shell of his former self, Gordon Hayward is averaging 14/7/4/2 on 40/29/85 shooting splits per 36 minutes. The Celtics have an offensive rating of 104 when he is on the court (below average) and a defensive rating of 100 when he is on the court (really good). Plus, over the last 8 games, the Celtics have an offensive rating of 109 and defensive rating of 98 when he is on the court, which means he is helping the team and getting better.

I'd still argue that he is the best facilitator on the team (Smart is close, but turns the ball over too much and Irving doesn't make complex reads consistently yet) even though he is still struggling to find his rhythm.

Plus, he has played pretty good, versatile defense so far.

Even with his struggles, he is a highly useful player that makes the team better. I'd take the bet that we haven't see the best from Gordon Hayward yet this season.

[johnnygreen]

Gordon seems to look better and better each week. His play making ability is definitely a positive, as he is helping guys get wide open shots. He just needs more time on the court to get his shot back, where he seems to lack some confidence. Maybe coming off the bench will help in that regard. Brad should make Gordon the #1 scoring option off the bench, as I think Gordon needs to shoot himself out of this rut. Unfortunately, with players like Rozier and Morris, that is a little difficult as those two guys seem to think if the ball touches their hands that they have to shoot.

[Big333223]

I'm willing to be patient and I bet he's going to look a lot better by playoff time.

That said, I wonder what the effect is of the highest paid player on the team who also has a long, close relationship with the coach getting minutes that he hasn't earned yet with this team.

[colincb]

I'm willing to be patient and I bet he's going to look a lot better by playoff time.

That said, I wonder what the effect is of the highest paid player on the team who also has a long, close relationship with the coach getting minutes that he hasn't earned yet with this team.

Agree with your first sentence. As to the 2nd, I think the coach was willing to sacrifice some wins to accelerate Hayward's return to form. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

[SHAQATTACK]

I'm willing to be patient and I bet he's going to look a lot better by playoff time.

That said, I wonder what the effect is of the highest paid player on the team who also has a long, close relationship with the coach getting minutes that he hasn't earned yet with this team.

i agree , in the mean time the ride wiil be ruff one.  Physical issues are not his main problem. Regaining condifence and moreover finding his role fit with his teamates on court. is his biggest challenge this year

[RJ87]

I'm willing to be patient and I bet he's going to look a lot better by playoff time.

That said, I wonder what the effect is of the highest paid player on the team who also has a long, close relationship with the coach getting minutes that he hasn't earned yet with this team.

He's averaging 27 minutes a game, so it's not like he's getting crazy minutes. The cold hard truth is that you have to actually play him if you want him to round into form at some point. And honestly, who's outplayed him to take minutes away from him?

[fairweatherfan]

I'm willing to be patient and I bet he's going to look a lot better by playoff time.

That said, I wonder what the effect is of the highest paid player on the team who also has a long, close relationship with the coach getting minutes that he hasn't earned yet with this team.

He's averaging 27 minutes a game, so it's not like he's getting crazy minutes. The cold hard truth is that you have to actually play him if you want him to round into form at some point. And honestly, who's outplayed him to take minutes away from him?

Morris. But I'm not really sure if he's the kind of guy whose efficiency will stay constant if we bumped him to 32-34 minutes.

And more importantly I agree with the broader point - we can't base Hayward's role on where he's at right now, he needs minutes and reps to round into shape.

[ozgod]

I find it strange that people are burying GH after 20 games, after he missed a whole year with a terrible injury. 

People should stop worrying about his salary...get over it...it can happen in the NBA.

He earned big money, pre-Donovan Mitchell, hoisting the Jazz on his back.  He EARNED it, then had some really bad luck.  I'm so happy we have Gordon Hayward and his contract and not John Wall and his.  Gordon will continue to strive to make the team better, and he'll do it unselfishishly.
Off the bench, starting, etc.  He is also big, major insurance should we need to trade Brown or Tatum in a blockbuster for a star big.  Very happy to have Gordon on this team.  For now, yes, he should be off the bench.  Who cares how much money he makes.

Gordon is so much more than his stat line. The issue with comparing people's stat lines this year vs last year is that in this team there are at least 7 guys (Kyrie, Gordon, Jayson, Jaylen, Morris Sr, Horford, Rozier) who could conceivably average 18+ if they were on a team with less scorers. You would look at the quality of the player and say that if they averaged less than 18 they're playing bad or not hitting their potential. But if each of them averaged 18 that's 124 points just from 7 players. How realistic is that? If we're going to look at traditional stats as a measure of the value each player brings to the team the per 36 min stat will probably be more appropriate as I don't think any player will average more than 32 this season (except the playoffs when they tighten the rotation).

For everyone to get their shots some people's stat lines are going to shrink, no two ways about it. We're not like Golden State where the talent is concentrated amongst four (now five) All Stars, we have players who aren't quite at that level but we have a lot of them. It's very similar to the Spurs team that won the championship in 2014, they had Parker averaging 16, Duncan 15, Leonard and Ginobili 12 each, Belinelli 11, Mills 10. 76 points from their top 6. Then they had Diaw and Green averaging 9 each. That's what I'm expecting to see from our team this year, that type of distribution. Kyrie will probably average over 20 given his usage, so there will be less of the total pie for everyone else.

[cman88]

The thing is, his passing and playmaking is still there. but for some reasons he cant hit shots. Seems like he is front rimming alot of them and then his confidence is shot for the rest of the game and he doesn't want to shoot.

problem is, he just isnt taking alot of shots. he took 5 shots last night and went 2-5. In comparison, Rozier took 12 shots. If Gordon took 12 shots, I would think his stat-line would look better. But outside of Kyrie I really don't think anyone is going to get enough shots to consistently put up 20

You can't really break out of a slump when you refuse to shoot the ball. But then he has games like the loss to NYC where he put up 19points.

[rollie mass]

As the OP i have to restate this was not an attack on Hayward,I personally had a basketball ending knee surgery so i empathize with Hayward but the effect on the team as a whole and to the head coach is the issue.You have two players in contract years that have been starters and Theis that's playing in his last year of his contract.
Remember when Marcus had that high ankle sprain and lost his lift  it took him till mid summer to recover and the criticism he took.
The New Orleans game just emphasized what i posted. A steal to a break away and an insipid dunk. A early recovery dunk and hearing footsteps.
A couple missed shots,a couple turnovers and THE drive down the middle getting caught mid air and heaving the ball at the backboard but he hit a corner three late in game..

No chemistry,timing ,effort,hunger ,toughness,perplexed,deja vu-It is a team and coach carrying a player till he recovers.And the team is skirting the issue and it's effect.
It doesn't take much at a high level to lose games, to get out of sync .
The opposing coaches are game planning the drive and kick ,his lack of lift at the basket, playing off and giving him the shot.

The insertion of the two Marcus's and you had five starters playing with energy.
Marcus Smart just played defense like very few players can and it was a pleasure to watch the Celtics again.

[playdream]

It's really just about making your shot, people are making things complicated and eager to find a scapegoat

[Celtics4ever]

It's really just about making your shot, people are making things complicated and eager to find a scapegoat

Well said, TP

[celtics4ever33]

Everyone wants Rozier dead to the Celtics

Then they get mad when someone doesnt "like" a player on the team. Funny stuff.

Rozier isnt even the biggest problem. Yet he is the guy who single handily destroyed the team , when you see some posts.

[Rosco917]

Hayward is an obsolete bust at this point for the Celtics.  He is coming off the bench and he should at this point.  He is a shell of his former self after his injury.  I am hoping he will regain his form and start to hep this team towards the second half of this season on its quest for a championship.  I am not certain that will happen.  He doesn’t fit into the 3 point shooting system as well as I thought he would.  He looks like a mid range shooter when I watch him play.  His 3point range looks off to me.  His defense has yet to prove anything special either.  I am hopeful that this all gets turned around as the season progresses.

What is obsolete about him?