Author Topic: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics  (Read 565 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« on: November 24, 2018, 08:38:57 AM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
  • Tommy Points: 138
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7ldtl3t

Disclaimer: While this trade involves Jaylen and Brown it is in no way intended to be reactionary to their slow shooting start to the season. It's possible to view our roster construction as unsustainable without overreacting to on court production.

The word 'reactionary' gets thrown around so much in these forums I'd argue often times it's the people immediately dismissing every trade idea that are the ones being reactionary.

Jaylen Brown - Terry Rozier(Verbal commitment to Re-sign) - Robert Williams III - Possibly a pick or 2
For
Josh Richardson - Edrice 'Bam' Adebayo


Why for Boston: I'm convinced there's an elite team trapped underneath the Log Jam at the wing and guard.

Switching out Jaylen for Josh Richardson as either the starter or first guard off the bench is a rock solid solidifying play that shores up much of the redundancy between GH/JB/JT. Richardson has emerged as an Elite floor spacing, defensive role player and is on an A+ contract moving forward.

Bam Adebayo is included in the trade to keep the ceiling high. We lose Robert Williams III but gain an elite physical talent who you would hope could enroll in Horford University and one day become our starting 5.

Bam has already showed a strong ability to defend the pick-and-roll and would give us some serious athleticism to match up with some of the freaks that have emerged in both conferences these past couple of seasons.

Why for Miami: Reunite the 2016-17 Eastern Conference Finals Celtics.

The team already signed Kelly Olynyk, so you're hoping that that he and RWIII help ease the sting of losing Adebayo, but you'd only have to put in 2017 playoff tape of Terry Rozier flying all over the place with Jaylen Brown filling the lanes on fast breaks and to see the kind of potential the new look Miami Squad could have.

Rozier and Brown absolutely seem like Miami guys and would be very helpful to the Heat to draw in future free agents given that they both seem popular among players in the league.

Losing Richardson would hurt but Rodney McGruder has had a strong start to the season and might be ready for a larger role.

What do you think?

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2018, 09:39:24 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20801
  • Tommy Points: 985
I'm not Brown's biggest fan, but there is no way I do that trade.

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 09:39:31 AM »

Offline Erik

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 941
  • Tommy Points: 155
  • The voice of reason
I think that Miami is getting the better players... Plus picks?

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 10:01:44 AM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9953
  • Tommy Points: 657
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
Finish the thought: How does Miami acquire IT?

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 11:09:59 AM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Tommy Points: 604
Maybe this is seeing things with green goggles but that feels like selling pretty low.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 11:14:49 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2965
  • Tommy Points: 504
I think Williams might be a better player than Bam, but I understand how that could be up for debate.

I think Rozier and Brown are both better than Richardson. I know he made a "leap" for the Heat this year, but it is coming at the expense of wins. If you look at the stats from last season, Rozier and Brown are better in most ways.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Josh+Richardson&player_id1_select=Josh+Richardson&player_id1=richajo01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Terry+Rozier&player_id2_select=Terry+Rozier&y2=2018&player_id2=roziete01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id3_select=Jaylen+Brown&y3=2018&player_id3=brownja02&idx=players

The problem isn't talent, and the solution certainly isn't selling low on our talent.
Most talent in the league. We don't want or need AD.

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 02:52:51 PM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
  • Tommy Points: 138
Thanks for the responses everyone.

I guess I have been guilty of selling low on our talent in some of the trades I've proposed. The main thing I can say with this is bring up the Isaih Thomas quote on 'the secret' from Bill Simmons Book of Basketball.

"The secret about basketball is that it’s not about basketball…"

Andrien Dantley was traded from the Pistons for Marc Aguirre. In a vacuum everyone agreed that Detroit gave up the better player but the Pistons took off and won the championship by acquiring Aguirre.

I'm not saying Jaylen's a bad player and we need to dump him for a bag of balls but I do think Jaylen would do better if a team like Miami where he could develop on a team with less expectations. I think Boston needs a chemistry trade and bringing in a high efficiency, lower usage guy like Richardson could propel us.

Don't forget Richardson was apparently the sticking point in the Jimmy Butler trade. He has significant value at that contract. (Although granted Miami might have also been concerned about Jimmy Butler's odds of re-signing)

I'm also probably higher on Bam than most. Followed the kid's high school and college career. I have him way higher up on my list of prospect that I do RWIII, I think he's a future starter in this league. Higher floor than RWIII IMO. I honestly have Bam not terribly far off Jaylen on my list of prospects, maybe in the tier right below him. Maybe I'm off on Bam as well

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 03:01:23 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20801
  • Tommy Points: 985
Thanks for the responses everyone.

I guess I have been guilty of selling low on our talent in some of the trades I've proposed. The main thing I can say with this is bring up the Isaih Thomas quote on 'the secret' from Bill Simmons Book of Basketball.

"The secret about basketball is that it’s not about basketball…"

Andrien Dantley was traded from the Pistons for Marc Aguirre. In a vacuum everyone agreed that Detroit gave up the better player but the Pistons took off and won the championship by acquiring Aguirre.

I'm not saying Jaylen's a bad player and we need to dump him for a bag of balls but I do think Jaylen would do better if a team like Miami where he could develop on a team with less expectations. I think Boston needs a chemistry trade and bringing in a high efficiency, lower usage guy like Richardson could propel us.

Don't forget Richardson was apparently the sticking point in the Jimmy Butler trade. He has significant value at that contract. (Although granted Miami might have also been concerned about Jimmy Butler's odds of re-signing)

I'm also probably higher on Bam than most. Followed the kid's high school and college career. I have him way higher up on my list of prospect that I do RWIII, I think he's a future starter in this league. Higher floor than RWIII IMO. I honestly have Bam not terribly far off Jaylen on my list of prospects, maybe in the tier right below him. Maybe I'm off on Bam as well
Dantley was 3 years older than Aguirre and the simple reality is Aguirre was the better player at that point and every single year after that trade.  After all that is why Detroit gave up a 1st round pick in the trade, not Dallas. 

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 03:14:01 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8437
  • Tommy Points: 953
I think Boston needs a chemistry trade and bringing in a high efficiency, lower usage guy like Richardson could propel us.

I'm not sure you've seen Richardson play this year or not, but he's actually handling the ball a lot. In fact, he's the ballhandler in a lot of PNR plays Miami runs. His usage rate is higher than Brown's, which is to be expected. He's not the 3 and D guy you're portraying him to be. In fact, I think there could be just as many issues with him as there is with Brown, if not more. Richardson is averaging over 20 PPG for a reason. He's not just spotting up and playing off teammates. His role has expanded to that of a facilitator/scorer and during crucial moments it's he who has the ball, not Dragic.

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 03:39:11 PM »

Online rondofan1255

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3045
  • Tommy Points: 96
Brown for Richardson looks fine imo if you don't believe in Brown reaching the p word potential, plus three years left after this season

Richardson is very hot/cold as well, or at least it seemed that way before this year, so there's that...

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 03:40:56 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29350
  • Tommy Points: 229
While I agree with the others that the dynamics of this trade do not favor us, I do like the idea of Richardson in green as a good fit for our team.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 08:20:28 PM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
  • Tommy Points: 138
Thanks for the responses everyone.

I guess I have been guilty of selling low on our talent in some of the trades I've proposed. The main thing I can say with this is bring up the Isaih Thomas quote on 'the secret' from Bill Simmons Book of Basketball.

"The secret about basketball is that it’s not about basketball…"

Andrien Dantley was traded from the Pistons for Marc Aguirre. In a vacuum everyone agreed that Detroit gave up the better player but the Pistons took off and won the championship by acquiring Aguirre.

I'm not saying Jaylen's a bad player and we need to dump him for a bag of balls but I do think Jaylen would do better if a team like Miami where he could develop on a team with less expectations. I think Boston needs a chemistry trade and bringing in a high efficiency, lower usage guy like Richardson could propel us.

Don't forget Richardson was apparently the sticking point in the Jimmy Butler trade. He has significant value at that contract. (Although granted Miami might have also been concerned about Jimmy Butler's odds of re-signing)

I'm also probably higher on Bam than most. Followed the kid's high school and college career. I have him way higher up on my list of prospect that I do RWIII, I think he's a future starter in this league. Higher floor than RWIII IMO. I honestly have Bam not terribly far off Jaylen on my list of prospects, maybe in the tier right below him. Maybe I'm off on Bam as well
Dantley was 3 years older than Aguirre and the simple reality is Aguirre was the better player at that point and every single year after that trade.  After all that is why Detroit gave up a 1st round pick in the trade, not Dallas.

The Bad Boys 30 for 30 documentary made it sound like Dantley was a still a top 5 player in the league and Acguirre was considered a step down, but turned out to be a better fit for the roster.

Acguirre said he was better the better player, the doc gave the impression that many were shocked about the trade.

Mind you, I feel we have the opposite problem. We don't have the crotchety old vet fighting for control of the team with the franchise PG. We have a divide between last year's young team and the current iteration of established vets.

The players might be in reversed stages of their careers but the problem is the same. I say there is value in cutting the chemistry issue out at the root rather than waiting to see if the team can figure it out.

Jaylen is struggling to find his way and I'm personally all for Hayward taking charge as the team's 2nd/3rd best player. He showed me all that he needed to in the Toronto game.

 If trading Jaylen and replacing him with lower profile players who are better suited to what we are asking of them in the pecking order is what that takes, I say pull the trigger.

Re: Consolidation Trade. Miami reunites the 2016-2017 Celtics
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 08:23:29 PM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
  • Tommy Points: 138
Also I recognize that Richardson has a higher usage this year but he wouldn't have to give up much to be our 2nd to 3rd guard on any given night. At that contract I consider Josh Richardson a blue chip asset.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required