Celtics problems stemming from last years playoffs?

[Tr1boy]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out on the floor

[Green-18]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out of the floor

Pride is definitely a factor for guys like Rozier and Jaylen.  This is where you wish there was a bit of self awareness.  The competition is MUCH deeper throughout the Conference.

[GreenWarrior]

inserting a player not ready into a starting line up that had chemistry completely changed the dynamics of this team.

a lot to ask of young players... who happened to be our 2 best players in the playoffs last yr.

[Green-18]

inserting a player not ready into a starting line up that had chemistry completely changed the dynamics of this team.

a lot to ask of young players... who happened to be our 2 best players in the playoffs last yr.

We also need to acknowledge that the underdog mentality of this group had an expiration date.  Expectation were going to rise regardless of Irving or Hayward's health.  Improvements throughout the rest of the Conference are also going to make the road more difficult. 

It's easy to look at last years run with rose tinted glasses.  Let's just try to to remember their wild inconsistency on the road.  The game 7 shooting struggles against Cleveland are also reminiscent of what the current group is dealing with at times.

The dynamics of this team were going to be different regardless of roster changes.  Also, can we definitively say that Brown and Tatum prioritized the right things during the off-season?  I've mentioned this many times but I'm convinced that Jaylen didn't work on his shot as much as he had the previous off-season. 

[csfansince60s]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out of the floor

Pride is definitely a factor for guys like Rozier and Jaylen.  This is where you wish there was a bit of self awareness.  The competition is MUCH deeper throughout the Conference.

Add to that the fact that we are getting every oppenent’s best shot every night. Teams are gunning for us this year far more than last year.

[Tr1boy]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out of the floor

Pride is definitely a factor for guys like Rozier and Jaylen.  This is where you wish there was a bit of self awareness.  The competition is MUCH deeper throughout the Conference.

Add to that the fact that we are getting every oppenent’s best shot every night. Teams are gunning for us this year far more than last year.

Agreed

[Who]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out of the floor

Pride is definitely a factor for guys like Rozier and Jaylen.  This is where you wish there was a bit of self awareness.  The competition is MUCH deeper throughout the Conference.

Pride = I think is working the other way too. Vets who feel they are the star (Kyrie) and want the young guys in their place like the way were last year as role players.

[KGBirdBias]

So are the players upset that Hayward came right back and began starting when they played well without him and its messed up the chemistry?

[Tr1boy]

So are the players upset that Hayward came right back and began starting when they played well without him and its messed up the chemistry?

Not sure upset but

There was a unit last season that gelled incredibly well

Future looked bright as heck

Then you add the "main" two guys and the rest have to change their "progression".... have to think twice.....and last dont get as many touches

And they are young...its not like Iguadala that understands the difference between spot starting and off bench support

Like I pointed out on another thread...I dont think a "fix" will happen... with what happened last season, Kyrie and Rozier contract season as well as Brown eligible for an early lomg term extension.  Add to insult Horford age is creeping up

[Green-18]

So are the players upset that Hayward came right back and began starting when they played well without him and its messed up the chemistry?

 

It probably didn't start this way.  I think the young guys expected to steamroll the competition.  Lesser minutes weren't going to be an issue when the entire team was functioning at elite efficiency.  Blowouts would ensure that everyone could get their shots. 

Over time I can easily picture Jaylen and Terry questioning the team dynamic with Hayward.  I don't believe it's blame, dislike, or direct frustration towards Hayward.  If anything they are probably keeping it to themselves and letting if affect their confidence.  Nothing more than concern/question about their place on the team. 


   

[CelticSooner]

Yes this is what I feel has happened. The chemistry just isn’t right because you have young players that feel they are just as good as the players in front of them on the depth chart. Choose who you want to build around and make a trade. Elevate CBS from juggling so many knives.

[ozgod]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out of the floor

Pride is definitely a factor for guys like Rozier and Jaylen.  This is where you wish there was a bit of self awareness.  The competition is MUCH deeper throughout the Conference.

Pride = I think is working the other way too. Vets who feel they are the star (Kyrie) and want the young guys in their place like the way were last year as role players.

I’m curious about this...what have you seen from the likes of Kyrie and Gordon to suggest that they want to put the young guys in their place? Because from what I see Hayward has gone out of his way to pass the ball instead of shoot, even when he is under the basket, and Kyrie earlier in the season had a game where he scored 3 points because he was just passing the ball and his assists have been up particularly in the past 10 games or so. Have I missed the body language where they want to put the younger guys in their place?

[Rosco917]

Tatum and Brown combined for 0 assists against the Knicks. ZERO (That's what I call seeing the floor  )

The truth is our two young players have made little progress from last year. It's obvious that both will not take after D Fox, Simmons, and Mitchell. They both may take a few more years. Both needed to work on the weak parts of their game. Like seeing the floor, handling the ball, finding open space etc. Tatum should have been watching game film with an experienced coach learning defensive positioning. 

Instead, he played with Kobe at his mansion, dreaming about having a pad like his, getting smoke blown his way. (Just because a former player was once great doesn't mean he can help a young player. see: Micheal Jordan)

Brown needed desperately to work on his ball handle and watch film of players who excelled at getting to the rim without being stripped of the ball. He needed to recognize when to attack and when not to.

Both players entered the new season thinking they were nearly finished players ready to lead a team.

Yes...this does stems from last years playoffs. The truth is that the East was a terrible division last year. Cleveland even with LeBron got destroyed by the Warriors. They would have been destroyed by Houston and several other Western conference teams too.


 

   

[Tr1boy]

Yes this is what I feel has happened. The chemistry just isn’t right because you have young players that feel they are just as good as the players in front of them on the depth chart. Choose who you want to build around and make a trade. Elevate CBS from juggling so many knives.

+1

[Kuberski33]

1. Irving and Hayward missing a bunch of games and not fully supporting team....Irving missing game 7 ?? *facepalm*

2. Tatum, Brown, Rozier taking a backseat though knowing they ECF type talents

Last season even with Hayward went down, team  started hot.  So what has exactly changed?

You can see poor body language all over the place out on the floor

#2 definitely.  I think this has to be playing a role - and then you throw into it that they're struggling to shoot the ball, it all kind of mushrooms.  Last fall was supposed to be the 'breaking in' period for this team - they found success anyway thanks to those 3 guys - and now it's even tougher to get back I think to the type of team that Brad initially envisioned.