Hope it was worth it.

[footey]

The two guys above me are the typical responses when someone is in denial.

The original poster did not say anything about this game. Nothing, he just said how Hayward has been a problem.

Is he lying?

Tired of the apologist. The guy has been rotten, it's not his fault, just like the OP mentioned, but he has destroyed the chemistry. Hes shooting 38 percent from field, and 29 from three, not to mention erratic play.

HE has a good game versus the knicks in a blowout type game and now we cant say anything bad about the golden boy.

Sorry golden boy but you’re the one in denial. Team loses game after game. Let’s blame the new guy instead of looking in the mirror. Maybe that is the excuse coming out of the locker room but that is not what is happening on the court. And PS I acknowledge Hayward has underwhelmed thus far, but get your facts straight about last night where he was primary key to our comeback. Had we won we would be singing his praises.

[celtics4ever33]

The two guys above me are the typical responses when someone is in denial.

The original poster did not say anything about this game. Nothing, he just said how Hayward has been a problem.

Is he lying?

Tired of the apologist. The guy has been rotten, it's not his fault, just like the OP mentioned, but he has destroyed the chemistry. Hes shooting 38 percent from field, and 29 from three, not to mention erratic play.

HE has a good game versus the knicks in a blowout type game and now we cant say anything bad about the golden boy.

Sorry golden boy but you’re the one in denial. Team loses game after game. Let’s blame the new guy instead of looking in the mirror. Maybe that is the excuse coming out of the locker room but that is not what is happening on the court. And PS I acknowledge Hayward has underwhelmed thus far, but get your facts straight about last night where he was primary key to our comeback. Had we won we would be singing his praises.

Wrong everywhere.

Number 1, the Celtics were getting destroyed the entire game

number 2, it was to the sad knicks on a back to back , 15 point underdogs

Who cares about what he did yesterday. Was it even that great? I saw Vonleh hitting hook shots in his face.

I am not a casual fan , who is singing praises in a potential victory against the knicks who were blowing out the Celtics.

Nobody is blaming Hayward, just saying he has ruined cohesion, chemistry and moral. Just by him being thrust into the lineups.

[gouki88]

The two guys above me are the typical responses when someone is in denial.

The original poster did not say anything about this game. Nothing, he just said how Hayward has been a problem.

Is he lying?

Tired of the apologist. The guy has been rotten, it's not his fault, just like the OP mentioned, but he has destroyed the chemistry. Hes shooting 38 percent from field, and 29 from three, not to mention erratic play.

HE has a good game versus the knicks in a blowout type game and now we cant say anything bad about the golden boy.

Sorry golden boy but you’re the one in denial. Team loses game after game. Let’s blame the new guy instead of looking in the mirror. Maybe that is the excuse coming out of the locker room but that is not what is happening on the court. And PS I acknowledge Hayward has underwhelmed thus far, but get your facts straight about last night where he was primary key to our comeback. Had we won we would be singing his praises.

Wrong everywhere.

Number 1, the Celtics were getting destroyed the entire game

number 2, it was to the sad knicks on a back to back , 15 point underdogs

Who cares about what he did yesterday. Was it even that great? I saw Vonleh hitting hook shots in his face.

I am not a casual fan , who is singing praises in a potential victory against the knicks who were blowing out the Celtics.

Nobody is blaming Hayward, just saying he has ruined cohesion, chemistry and moral. Just by him being thrust into the lineups.

If our team is so fragile that Hayward merely getting the minutes that CBS advertised he would has thrown us off so completely then we deserve this.

[celtics4ever33]

The two guys above me are the typical responses when someone is in denial.

The original poster did not say anything about this game. Nothing, he just said how Hayward has been a problem.

Is he lying?

Tired of the apologist. The guy has been rotten, it's not his fault, just like the OP mentioned, but he has destroyed the chemistry. Hes shooting 38 percent from field, and 29 from three, not to mention erratic play.

HE has a good game versus the knicks in a blowout type game and now we cant say anything bad about the golden boy.

Sorry golden boy but you’re the one in denial. Team loses game after game. Let’s blame the new guy instead of looking in the mirror. Maybe that is the excuse coming out of the locker room but that is not what is happening on the court. And PS I acknowledge Hayward has underwhelmed thus far, but get your facts straight about last night where he was primary key to our comeback. Had we won we would be singing his praises.

Wrong everywhere.

Number 1, the Celtics were getting destroyed the entire game

number 2, it was to the sad knicks on a back to back , 15 point underdogs

Who cares about what he did yesterday. Was it even that great? I saw Vonleh hitting hook shots in his face.

I am not a casual fan , who is singing praises in a potential victory against the knicks who were blowing out the Celtics.

Nobody is blaming Hayward, just saying he has ruined cohesion, chemistry and moral. Just by him being thrust into the lineups.

If our team is so fragile that Hayward merely getting the minutes that CBS advertised he would has thrown us off so completely then we deserve this.

It is because it is a huge huge change.

Tatum has shown that he is a #2 type of guy, earned the shots, so he thinks he is a big time scorer now, and he kinda is obviously. Then you got Brown who was great in the playoffs, same with Rozier, Irving is back who is a super star player.

So now Horford loses out on a lot of scoring opportunities, it has thrown him off, Brown Rozier, same thing, thrown off, and to add to it, Hayward has been horrible offensively.

It is what it is, its simple, too many players, too many egos. This is not the first time , and long time fans that follow lots of teams, know it, and identify the potential problems.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think the theory that Hayward's mere presence has caused all of this trouble is way off.

I understand that his return has caused a ripple effect in terms of everyone's minutes, rotations, roles, etc., but when a player goes up for a shot and bricks it, and then continues doing this the majority of the time, that's not because that player's minutes or role has changed. These guys are professional basketball players; they're paid to make shots; whatever goes on during the process of taking shots—muscle memory, mental focus, etc.—Hayward has nothing to do with any of that.

The problem, as I see it, is between the players' ears.

[footey]

The two guys above me are the typical responses when someone is in denial.

The original poster did not say anything about this game. Nothing, he just said how Hayward has been a problem.

Is he lying?

Tired of the apologist. The guy has been rotten, it's not his fault, just like the OP mentioned, but he has destroyed the chemistry. Hes shooting 38 percent from field, and 29 from three, not to mention erratic play.

HE has a good game versus the knicks in a blowout type game and now we cant say anything bad about the golden boy.

Sorry golden boy but you’re the one in denial. Team loses game after game. Let’s blame the new guy instead of looking in the mirror. Maybe that is the excuse coming out of the locker room but that is not what is happening on the court. And PS I acknowledge Hayward has underwhelmed thus far, but get your facts straight about last night where he was primary key to our comeback. Had we won we would be singing his praises.

Wrong everywhere.

Number 1, the Celtics were getting destroyed the entire game

number 2, it was to the sad knicks on a back to back , 15 point underdogs

Who cares about what he did yesterday. Was it even that great? I saw Vonleh hitting hook shots in his face.

I am not a casual fan , who is singing praises in a potential victory against the knicks who were blowing out the Celtics.

Nobody is blaming Hayward, just saying he has ruined cohesion, chemistry and moral. Just by him being thrust into the lineups.

All right, let’s breathe, both of us. We’re mad at our team, not each other. We’re both passionate, not casual, fans. We just have different views of the causes. Hopefully whatever the problem they figure it out. And soon.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Surferdad]

Stevens messed the chemistry of this team up by insisting hayward start. and it's been at the expense of every player on this team. every issue on this team is a trickle down effect from this decision.

nobody would have questioned anything if he came out and said "hayward will come off the bench at least until he's ready to go full speed".

plus the line up of Baynes, Horford, Tatum, Brown & Irving pretty much earned the right to pick up where they left off.

this season was all about - how does stevens make it all come together. he was given the ingredients and all he had to do was cook the meal.

this is all about Stevens.

Easy to sound smart after the fact.

[moiso]

Nope.

It's all about learning to shoot threes again.

Horford shot 42% last year. This year 30%.
Brown shot 39% last year. This year 27%.
Rozier shot 38% last year. This year 33%.
Tatum shot 43% last year. This year 39%.
Smart shot 30% last year. This year 25%.
Hayward has gone from 39% his last year in Utah to 29%.

Now it seems like a couple of these guys may have had fluke 3 point shooting seasons last season, namely Horford and Brown.  Horford has never even come close to shooting like he did last year, and Brown certainly doesn't look like a 39% 3point shooter to me.  The other three guys could probably come close to what they shot last year.

[greenrunsdeep41]

If our team is that mentally weak, I guess we deserve what we get.

I simply agree. This team is mentally weak and are having a hard time managing, of no fault of anyone’s, an interesting situation.

This growth process, for all intents, should have happened last year. I think they are having a hard time with it (they=young guys) because they think they’re rising stars. IMO the reason we see Morris performing so well is because he knows what he is and doesn’t need growth validation. These guys will never hit their individual statistical ceiling on this team, but they still could be one of the best teams of all time.

It’s a new kind of underdog story, these guys vs their ego and ability to commit to the greater good. It seems like they’re all great guys and I’m 97% confident they are going to solve it.

[GreenWarrior]

Stevens messed the chemistry of this team up by insisting hayward start. and it's been at the expense of every player on this team. every issue on this team is a trickle down effect from this decision.

nobody would have questioned anything if he came out and said "hayward will come off the bench at least until he's ready to go full speed".

plus the line up of Baynes, Horford, Tatum, Brown & Irving pretty much earned the right to pick up where they left off.

this season was all about - how does stevens make it all come together. he was given the ingredients and all he had to do was cook the meal.

this is all about Stevens.

Easy to sound smart after the fact.

ohh I did not like the idea of hayward starting to begin with for this:

plus the line up of Baynes, Horford, Tatum, Brown & Irving pretty much earned the right to pick up where they left off.
 

very reason.

didn't post this thought because if you look at the response to this thread you'll see why.

[GreenWarrior]

I also believe there's a lot of posters here who did not understand my original post.

i'm not blaming hayward. he clearly isn't or wasn't himself to start this season and probably still isn't.

so why did we have to force him into the starting line up? it's not like he wasn't going to get the chance to play with horford, tatum, irving and brown through the course of the game.

the line up of Baynes, Horford, Tatum, Brown & Irving deserved to start this season, they earned it, they were all ready to start the season and pick up where they left off.

why in the world would we mess with what we had last season?

in hindsight if we said to ourselves at the beginning of the yr.(before the starting line up was announced) - if there's a chance we ruin our chemistry that we had last season by inserting hayward into the starting line up would you rather him come off the bench?

i'm thinking most would have said yes.

like I said I think this choice caused a trickle down effect to all our issues this season. 
 

[footey]

If our team is that mentally weak, I guess we deserve what we get.

I simply agree. This team is mentally weak and are having a hard time managing, of no fault of anyone’s, an interesting situation.

This growth process, for all intents, should have happened last year. I think they are having a hard time with it (they=young guys) because they think they’re rising stars. IMO the reason we see Morris performing so well is because he knows what he is and doesn’t need growth validation. These guys will never hit their individual statistical ceiling on this team, but they still could be one of the best teams of all time.

It’s a new kind of underdog story, these guys vs their ego and ability to commit to the greater good. It seems like they’re all great guys and I’m 97% confident they are going to solve it.

Solid observation. TP!

[KungPoweChicken]

Nope.

It's all about learning to shoot threes again.

Horford shot 42% last year. This year 30%.
Brown shot 39% last year. This year 27%.
Rozier shot 38% last year. This year 33%.
Tatum shot 43% last year. This year 39%.
Smart shot 30% last year. This year 25%.
Hayward has gone from 39% his last year in Utah to 29%.

Now it seems like a couple of these guys may have had fluke 3 point shooting seasons last season, namely Horford and Brown.  Horford has never even come close to shooting like he did last year, and Brown certainly doesn't look like a 39% 3point shooter to me.  The other three guys could probably come close to what they shot last year.

It is unfair to expect players to produce at their career high numbers. The only good/great three point shooters on this team are Tatum and Irving, and they are shooting well this year. Everyone else on the team is fairly mediocre from three. Yes, this includes Hayward. So when a bunch of fairly mediocre three point shooters shoot three pointers all game long, it may not work each night. This is what is happening.

[Mahk E Mahk]

I also believe there's a lot of posters here who did not understand my original post.

i'm not blaming hayward. he clearly isn't or wasn't himself to start this season and probably still isn't.

so why did we have to force him into the starting line up? it's not like he wasn't going to get the chance to play with horford, tatum, irving and brown through the course of the game.

the line up of Baynes, Horford, Tatum, Brown & Irving deserved to start this season, they earned it, they were all ready to start the season and pick up where they left off.

why in the world would we mess with what we had last season?

in hindsight if we said to ourselves at the beginning of the yr.(before the starting line up was announced) - if there's a chance we ruin our chemistry that we had last season by inserting hayward into the starting line up would you rather him come off the bench?

i'm thinking most would have said yes.

like I said I think this choice caused a trickle down effect to all our issues this season.

no disrespect intended but i don’t think your premise that baynes, brown, tatum, horford, & irving earned the right to pick up where they left off is unaffected by hindsight and hayward’s early struggles. if danny had acquired AD, i doubt you would have demanded that last year’s starters stay intact for continuity.

 to answer one of your questions directly, the logic behind messing with what we had last season is that last season, while successful, wasn’t good enough. getting past the ecf and winning championships is the goal. one of the great attributes of the c’s organization is their mentality of constantly getting better.

one possible reason why hayward was “forced” into the starting lineup was probably due to his known talent level & his play/chemistry in practice. brad clearly thinks he gives the c’s the best chance to win. it’s also conceivable that brad is very aware that it will take time for hayward to return to form & for the team to acclimate to the new rotation. if brad thinks this will take time, and the final product will be better than last year’s starting five, then it’s best to work out the kinks now, rather than march/april.

[hpantazo]

I also believe there's a lot of posters here who did not understand my original post.

i'm not blaming hayward. he clearly isn't or wasn't himself to start this season and probably still isn't.

so why did we have to force him into the starting line up? it's not like he wasn't going to get the chance to play with horford, tatum, irving and brown through the course of the game.

the line up of Baynes, Horford, Tatum, Brown & Irving deserved to start this season, they earned it, they were all ready to start the season and pick up where they left off.

why in the world would we mess with what we had last season?

in hindsight if we said to ourselves at the beginning of the yr.(before the starting line up was announced) - if there's a chance we ruin our chemistry that we had last season by inserting hayward into the starting line up would you rather him come off the bench?

i'm thinking most would have said yes.

like I said I think this choice caused a trickle down effect to all our issues this season.

If Rozier and Brown hadn't embarrassed themselves in game 7 of the ECF then maybe I'd buy that argument.