Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room

[byennie]

It's Rozier, and *maybe* Brown.

Rozier considers himself a 30 mpg player and he's only hit that mark twice in 18 games. Averaging 19 mpg over the last 4. Playing for a contract. Obviously unhappy.

Brown is the wildcard here. The team has elevated both Tatum and Hayward ahead of him, despite him having a year on Tatum and Hayward obviously not 100%. Over the last 5 games Tatum and Hayward are playing 30+ and Brown is averaging 24. I think he considers himself a rising All-Star but he's being treated like the 5th wheel behind Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Horford and on par with Rozier and Smart. That's 7 guys around or above his level with no end in sight.

I see the proper roster as:

The core: Irving, Hayward, Horford
The untouchable future star: Tatum
The blue collar guys: Smart, Morris, Wanamaker, Baynes, Theis
The cancer: Rozier
The assets: Brown, SAC19, other 1st rounders
Prospects: Williams
Sorta useful: Ojeleye
Expendable: Yabusele

You’re not watching the same games as I am. Horford has been dreadful. Tatum mediocre; not playing like a future star, and certainly not untouchable. Calling Rozier a cancer without a single quote attributable to him is unfair and groundless. Turning 22 year old Brown after hitting a bad stretch as trade bait is moronic.

Sure I am. Horford is still a core player and starter on a contender. Tatum is still a future star. These things haven’t changed in 18 games. He’s widely considered the #1 or #2 player in his draft class and is under contract for years. That’s untouchable unless you’re getting Anthony Davis, who we literally can’t trade for.

Rozier might not hold the blame but his situation is cancerous. Virtually everyone believes he’s unhappy and gone after this year. It’s not a personal judgement on Terry, maybe he has a right to be upset about the contract $$$ he could be losing.

As for Brown, I would want a king’s ransom for him, but my point is that you maximize the roster by being decisive sometimes. That’s why I call him an asset, not trade bait. He’s valuable and we have depth to absorb his loss.

But hey, don’t hold back with the dreadful/ unfair/ groundless/ moronic...!

My frustration has made me over emotional. What you said wasn’t moronic; my response was. Like a lot of us, probably including you, I was relishing the start of this season with everyone back healthy, expecting them to coast through with 60-65 wins. This start, going on 18 games, has really bummed me out.

Cool, I hear ya. Cheers.

[KungPoweChicken]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

[hpantazo]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

I don't think so. Hayward has his long term max contract, he's not out there looking to pad his stats to earn his big payday. He is also not responsible for players not trusting each other on defense.

The problem is guys like Rozier and Brown and maybe Tatum who want to earn that big payday and need minutes to do it. They may also not have their heart into running hard through the defensive sets every night.

Smart and Baynes got their contracts, they all set.


Horford and Kyrie just want to win.


Morris is playing for a contract, but he's playing well. He may still be part of the problem though.


I think if you put a lineup out there of

Smart
Kyrie
Hayward
Horford
Baynes

They will all work hard on D, make the right plays on offense, and be very effective. The problem is that they are only 5 guys and you need to play the rest of the roster and put the players that much best with the opponents.

[gouki88]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

Rofl.

Is it Hayward's fault neither Jaylen Brown nor Terry Rozier can buy a bucket?
Is it Hayward's fault that Al Horford is more tentative than ever?
Is it Hayward's fault that JT is taking much worse shots than last season and continues to be a liability defensively?

I could go on, but I think everyone understands how silly it is to blame GH

[Hoopvortex]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

...JT ... continues to be a liability defensively?

Surprised by this claim. Not at all what I see. I agree with you about the decline in shot selection, though.

[gouki88]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

...JT ... continues to be a liability defensively?

Surprised by this claim. Not at all what I see. I agree with you about the decline in shot selection, though.

I feel like he gambles way too much and loses accountability on defence. Was a lot worse at the start of the season, to be fair.

[CF033]

Most of us probably suspected this given how disjointed they are, but it's the first time a journalist has actually come out and published something saying players are unhappy about playing time. I wonder if he is concluding this on the basis of performance or if he has some inside info from players. This kind of issue is way worse than missing shots or being demotivated - it has the potential to destroy the team. If it's really like this then trades need to happen.

As much as the Celtics have tried to downplay their slow start, attributing their struggles to a revamped lineup, new roles, a tough schedule or whatever, there are some serious problems in that locker room.

I have no doubt that they are restless with going back to diminished roles this year.

Because they are losing and because they look horrible in the process, evidenced Wednesday night by falling behind by 26 points to the Knicks, losers of six straight, there are some unhappy fellows on this team and it’s going to take some time and victories to soothe feelings.

Some players are angry about their playing time. Others are angry when they’re playing. They don’t trust each other on defense. The offense can’t score when they don’t hit 3-pointers. And the frustration is showing in their putrid effort, which again was nonexistent until the second half.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/11/22/celtics-are-angry-and-trust-major-issue/NCseBiUXwNMYNK0F2HOkSL/story.html

I decided to look at their minutes last year vs this year, for most of them it's not really that different...Gordon's minutes have basically come from Baynes, Smart, Semi and Theis. Jaylen is playing a couple minutes less, Rozier 3 mins less, Al 2 min less, Kyrie and Morris the same and Tatum actually playing more than last year. I wonder if the unhappy one is Smart.

Code: [Select]

2018-19 2017-18
PLAYER GP MIN PTS GP MIN PTS
Kyrie Irving 17 32.9 22.4 60 32.2 24.4
Jayson Tatum 18 32 16.1 80 30.5 13.9
Marcus Morris 17 26.1 13.9 54 26.7 13.6
Al Horford 18 29.8 11.7 72 31.6 12.9
Jaylen Brown 17 28.3 10.9 70 30.7 14.5
Gordon Hayward 17 27.2 10.3 1 5.3 2
Terry Rozier 18 22.7 7.9 80 25.9 11.3
Marcus Smart 18 23.1 5.8 54 29.9 10.2
Aron Baynes 15 13.6 5.2 81 18.3 6
Daniel Theis 10 10.7 4.9 63 14.9 5.3
Brad Wanamaker 4 6 2.8 #N/A #N/A #N/A
Semi Ojeleye 11 9 2.3 73 15.8 2.7
G. Yabusele 9 4.2 1.8 33 7.1 2.4
R. Williams III 5 3 1 #N/A #N/A #N/A

The minutes these guys played last year during the regular season is meaningless. Jaylen, Jason and Rozier lead the Celts to the seventh game of the ECF in the playoffs last year. That's where their minds are now. The minutes Jaylen and Rozier played during the regular season last year are out the door. To stay the same as regular season last year is a downgrade to them now, they want to pick up where the playoffs ended.

[playdream]

Most of us probably suspected this given how disjointed they are, but it's the first time a journalist has actually come out and published something saying players are unhappy about playing time. I wonder if he is concluding this on the basis of performance or if he has some inside info from players. This kind of issue is way worse than missing shots or being demotivated - it has the potential to destroy the team. If it's really like this then trades need to happen.

As much as the Celtics have tried to downplay their slow start, attributing their struggles to a revamped lineup, new roles, a tough schedule or whatever, there are some serious problems in that locker room.

I have no doubt that they are restless with going back to diminished roles this year.

Because they are losing and because they look horrible in the process, evidenced Wednesday night by falling behind by 26 points to the Knicks, losers of six straight, there are some unhappy fellows on this team and it’s going to take some time and victories to soothe feelings.

Some players are angry about their playing time. Others are angry when they’re playing. They don’t trust each other on defense. The offense can’t score when they don’t hit 3-pointers. And the frustration is showing in their putrid effort, which again was nonexistent until the second half.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/11/22/celtics-are-angry-and-trust-major-issue/NCseBiUXwNMYNK0F2HOkSL/story.html

I decided to look at their minutes last year vs this year, for most of them it's not really that different...Gordon's minutes have basically come from Baynes, Smart, Semi and Theis. Jaylen is playing a couple minutes less, Rozier 3 mins less, Al 2 min less, Kyrie and Morris the same and Tatum actually playing more than last year. I wonder if the unhappy one is Smart.

Code: [Select]

2018-19 2017-18
PLAYER GP MIN PTS GP MIN PTS
Kyrie Irving 17 32.9 22.4 60 32.2 24.4
Jayson Tatum 18 32 16.1 80 30.5 13.9
Marcus Morris 17 26.1 13.9 54 26.7 13.6
Al Horford 18 29.8 11.7 72 31.6 12.9
Jaylen Brown 17 28.3 10.9 70 30.7 14.5
Gordon Hayward 17 27.2 10.3 1 5.3 2
Terry Rozier 18 22.7 7.9 80 25.9 11.3
Marcus Smart 18 23.1 5.8 54 29.9 10.2
Aron Baynes 15 13.6 5.2 81 18.3 6
Daniel Theis 10 10.7 4.9 63 14.9 5.3
Brad Wanamaker 4 6 2.8 #N/A #N/A #N/A
Semi Ojeleye 11 9 2.3 73 15.8 2.7
G. Yabusele 9 4.2 1.8 33 7.1 2.4
R. Williams III 5 3 1 #N/A #N/A #N/A

The minutes these guys played last year during the regular season is meaningless. Jaylen, Jason and Rozier Brad Stevens lead the Celts to the seventh game of the ECF in the playoffs last year. That's where their minds are now. The minutes Jaylen and Rozier played during the regular season last year are out the door. To stay the same as regular season last year is a downgrade to them now, they want to pick up where the playoffs ended.

Fix it for you

[CF033]

Most of us probably suspected this given how disjointed they are, but it's the first time a journalist has actually come out and published something saying players are unhappy about playing time. I wonder if he is concluding this on the basis of performance or if he has some inside info from players. This kind of issue is way worse than missing shots or being demotivated - it has the potential to destroy the team. If it's really like this then trades need to happen.

As much as the Celtics have tried to downplay their slow start, attributing their struggles to a revamped lineup, new roles, a tough schedule or whatever, there are some serious problems in that locker room.

I have no doubt that they are restless with going back to diminished roles this year.

Because they are losing and because they look horrible in the process, evidenced Wednesday night by falling behind by 26 points to the Knicks, losers of six straight, there are some unhappy fellows on this team and it’s going to take some time and victories to soothe feelings.

Some players are angry about their playing time. Others are angry when they’re playing. They don’t trust each other on defense. The offense can’t score when they don’t hit 3-pointers. And the frustration is showing in their putrid effort, which again was nonexistent until the second half.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/11/22/celtics-are-angry-and-trust-major-issue/NCseBiUXwNMYNK0F2HOkSL/story.html

I decided to look at their minutes last year vs this year, for most of them it's not really that different...Gordon's minutes have basically come from Baynes, Smart, Semi and Theis. Jaylen is playing a couple minutes less, Rozier 3 mins less, Al 2 min less, Kyrie and Morris the same and Tatum actually playing more than last year. I wonder if the unhappy one is Smart.

Code: [Select]

2018-19 2017-18
PLAYER GP MIN PTS GP MIN PTS
Kyrie Irving 17 32.9 22.4 60 32.2 24.4
Jayson Tatum 18 32 16.1 80 30.5 13.9
Marcus Morris 17 26.1 13.9 54 26.7 13.6
Al Horford 18 29.8 11.7 72 31.6 12.9
Jaylen Brown 17 28.3 10.9 70 30.7 14.5
Gordon Hayward 17 27.2 10.3 1 5.3 2
Terry Rozier 18 22.7 7.9 80 25.9 11.3
Marcus Smart 18 23.1 5.8 54 29.9 10.2
Aron Baynes 15 13.6 5.2 81 18.3 6
Daniel Theis 10 10.7 4.9 63 14.9 5.3
Brad Wanamaker 4 6 2.8 #N/A #N/A #N/A
Semi Ojeleye 11 9 2.3 73 15.8 2.7
G. Yabusele 9 4.2 1.8 33 7.1 2.4
R. Williams III 5 3 1 #N/A #N/A #N/A

The minutes these guys played last year during the regular season is meaningless. Jaylen, Jason and Rozier Brad Stevens lead the Celts to the seventh game of the ECF in the playoffs last year. That's where their minds are now. The minutes Jaylen and Rozier played during the regular season last year are out the door. To stay the same as regular season last year is a downgrade to them now, they want to pick up where the playoffs ended.

Fix it for you

This might be true but it doesn't take away from the fact that those players put in some huge performances during that playoff run last year. That's why they feel they deserve bigger roles now.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I can't look right now, but usage is much more important in this context. 

[nickagneta]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

Rofl.

Is it Hayward's fault neither Jaylen Brown nor Terry Rozier can buy a bucket?
Is it Hayward's fault that Al Horford is more tentative than ever?
Is it Hayward's fault that JT is taking much worse shots than last season and continues to be a liability defensively?

I could go on, but I think everyone understands how silly it is to blame GH

Yeah, it's pretty silly to blame anyone one person. This season has been a major letdown and everyone is to blame it from Brad Stevens to his coaching staff to just about every player(probably exclude Morris).

And it's not just one problem It's not just the starting lineup, it's not just the player rotations and player groupings, it's not just having the team mentally prepared each night, it's not just the shooting, it's not just the inconsistency, it's not just the lack of aggression, it's not just players understanding their roles and playing within those roles, it's not just sporatic defense, it's not just chemistry, it's not just about players worrying about contracts, it's not just locker room tension.

It's all of it. It's the coaches, the players and everything else.

And I the the fix is to get the players to get their act together, buy into everything coaches say, and perform to the ability and the coaches to stay consistent, prepare these players and put each individual player into situations that are best for that player to maximize each players contributions to the team as a whole, put those players in a position to succeed.

Not going to be easy and there is no one clear quick fix. Just changing the starting lineup, or using players that aren't prepared or good enough to be in the rotation, or just taking it to the basket more or making a trade is going to work. It just won't.

[CelticsElite]

I wonder if this is relevant: https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/1064918716071272453

[Banner18now!]

Rozier is the problem. The sooner they can get rid of him the better. He thinks he’s a superstar with his scary Terry t-shirts.

[GreenEnvy]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

I guess the fact that he isn’t playing tonight and the defense is atrocious says what?

[CelticsElite]

Whether the Celtics have the guile to address it or not, Hayward is the problem.

I guess the fact that he isn’t playing tonight and the defense is atrocious says what?

exactly. I don’t get the Hayward haters. We suck worse when he’s out. That says a lot