Author Topic: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?  (Read 536 times)

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Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« on: November 20, 2018, 03:48:44 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Found this old article about 4 ways to use hayward

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/08/17/4-ways-the-celtics-can-use-gordon-hayward

Articke was written before  the trade for kyrie but it makes sense to use him as secondary ball handler (I値l also admit I haven稚 watched a few games so not sure if he has been utilized this way











Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 03:59:50 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Kyrie would have a meltdown. 

Gordy will be fine.  Biggest concern is how all of this is affecting Robyn's well-being.
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Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 04:07:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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You'll notice that the first couple of those clips features Gordon using a burst of speed to explode for a finish at the rim.

He's not there yet.

As for being a playmaker, he's done quite a bit of that already this year, especially on the break.

While that's nice, the Celts aren't lacking for playmaking right now, per se, they're lacking for shot creation inside of 10 feet.
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Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 04:52:40 PM »

Offline bopna

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That third gif or video was the exact same play Kyrie and Gordy used when GH met his disastrous injury... They ain't using that play anymore.

Best way to use Hayward is be like KD... Drive from the top of the key then pull up from 8 to 13 ft.. Unstoppable.

Enough with this drive and kick because teams have scouted GH.. He ain't taking the shot 60% of the time so they play the passing lanes.

GH line of 4 points in 31 minutes is not what the Cs are paying him max money for... Otherwise the Cs should have just resigned Evan Turner... Who ironically is what Hayward is fast becoming... A very expensive jack of all trade, master of none.

Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 05:54:28 PM »

Offline blink

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That third gif or video was the exact same play Kyrie and Gordy used when GH met his disastrous injury... They ain't using that play anymore.

Best way to use Hayward is be like KD... Drive from the top of the key then pull up from 8 to 13 ft.. Unstoppable.

Enough with this drive and kick because teams have scouted GH.. He ain't taking the shot 60% of the time so they play the passing lanes.

GH line of 4 points in 31 minutes is not what the Cs are paying him max money for... Otherwise the Cs should have just resigned Evan Turner... Who ironically is what Hayward is fast becoming... A very expensive jack of all trade, master of none.

Somewhere, somehow, I don't think that this Evan Turner comparison is going to age well.

Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 06:08:25 PM »

Offline gouki88

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That third gif or video was the exact same play Kyrie and Gordy used when GH met his disastrous injury... They ain't using that play anymore.

Best way to use Hayward is be like KD... Drive from the top of the key then pull up from 8 to 13 ft.. Unstoppable.

Enough with this drive and kick because teams have scouted GH.. He ain't taking the shot 60% of the time so they play the passing lanes.

GH line of 4 points in 31 minutes is not what the Cs are paying him max money for... Otherwise the Cs should have just resigned Evan Turner... Who ironically is what Hayward is fast becoming... A very expensive jack of all trade, master of none.

Somewhere, somehow, I don't think that this Evan Turner comparison is going to age well.
I wonder why ;D

Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 06:09:41 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I was actually thinking the exact opposite.

I feel like when Hayward is on the floor he's being used as a secondary and sometimes primary ballhandler. He makes good decisions with the ball but he just can't get separation right now and it's hurting the offense. Until (if?) he gets back to peak form, the team might be better served having him play off ball and running more of the offense through Kyrie, Al Horford (as was done the past 2 years) and Smart with the bench.

It could also mean getting Tatum some more touches, getting him in a better rhythm, and encouraging him to start looking for others and not just getting his own shot every time.
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Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 10:05:02 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Good idea.

Actually, they have been.

Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 01:22:58 AM »

Online liam

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Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 01:31:54 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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That third gif or video was the exact same play Kyrie and Gordy used when GH met his disastrous injury... They ain't using that play anymore.

Best way to use Hayward is be like KD... Drive from the top of the key then pull up from 8 to 13 ft.. Unstoppable.

Enough with this drive and kick because teams have scouted GH.. He ain't taking the shot 60% of the time so they play the passing lanes.

GH line of 4 points in 31 minutes is not what the Cs are paying him max money for... Otherwise the Cs should have just resigned Evan Turner... Who ironically is what Hayward is fast becoming... A very expensive jack of all trade, master of none.

I'm gonna cry if that happens

Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 12:19:34 PM »

Offline Big333223

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The more I think about this, the more I think the answer is to take the ball out of Hayward's hands. Don't bench him but stop using him as a primary distributor.

Look at the overtime against Toronto, when the offense has looked as good as it has looked all season. The first play, Kyrie gets to the rim, has his path closed off and dumps the ball off the Gordon because Gordon has made a smart move to right under the basket. He kind of blows an easy lay-up but gets fouled and gets to the line. The next possession, Kyrie brings the ball up and posts up Hayward who knocks down an easy turnaround jumper.

I think one of the problems is Stevens is trying to use Hayward how he has always been used (both in college and the last bunch of years in Utah) which is as a combo scorer/distributor but Hayward now has someone who is a better scorer (Kyrie) and other guys who can distribute (Horford, Smart) and because of the injury, Hayward can not get separation when he has the ball. If he can't get separation then he's only playing to pass but if he's not looking to score ever, that makes it harder to make those passes.

On Lowe's podcast yesterday he was talking about how Hayward is asking for picks even when he already has what should be an advantageous mismatch. Stevens has to take the ball out of Hayward's hands. I know he makes good decisions with the ball but he also makes good decisions off the ball. Making cuts and spotting up can get him into rhythm he's been missing and put other guys back into the roles they're familiar with.

It's time to take the ball out of Gordon's hands for a little while.
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Re: Why not use Hayward as ball handler or p&r handler?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 12:24:20 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I was actually thinking the exact opposite.

I feel like when Hayward is on the floor he's being used as a secondary and sometimes primary ballhandler. He makes good decisions with the ball but he just can't get separation right now and it's hurting the offense. Until (if?) he gets back to peak form, the team might be better served having him play off ball and running more of the offense through Kyrie, Al Horford (as was done the past 2 years) and Smart with the bench.


Yeah, one of the problems with having Hayward be a ball handler right now is that the defense knows he's not going to try to finish inside, so they can completely stay home on all of the shooters.

If you're going to be a ball handler you either need to be a dangerous shooter or be able to get to the rim if the opponent gives you daylight. 

Gordon doesn't really check either box right now which is ... a problem.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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