Author Topic: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?  (Read 1744 times)

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Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2018, 05:26:31 PM »

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great player but huge contract..what team would take that on? New York? Clippers?
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Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2018, 05:47:16 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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great player but huge contract..what team would take that on? New York? Clippers?

Trade Kuzzma , Pope. , and Ball and Rondo

Ingram Wall Bron and Hart t is good start

Ball ....just doesn't fit on ANY team Bron is on.....that a bad combo




« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 05:53:19 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 05:52:39 PM »

Offline Big333223

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and how many teams are going to want to take on that abysmal contract for a guy who has proved to be nothing other than cancerous?

Possible suitors

Clippers (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Avery Bradley, Jerome Robinson)
Heat (Goran Dragic & Justice Winslow)
Pelicans (Jrue Holiday, Cheick Diallo, 2nd rounder)
Magic (Mo Bamba, Terrence Ross, Jerian Grant)
Suns (TJ Warren, Mikal Bridges, Elie Okobo)
Knicks (Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox, Courtney Lee)

The Lakers may also be interested, depends on what GM LeBrons take on Wall is. Im honestly not sure.

My guess is he ends up in New Orleans with Davis or Orlando.


Jrue Holiday is better than Wall today all by himself and he is not cancer with a toxic contract.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Wall is probably better than Jrue but not by much. Not enough that I would even trade him straight up and roll the chemistry dice.

I imagine the Suns, Magic, Heat, and Knicks will be in the hunt.
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Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2018, 06:27:59 AM »

Offline Moranis

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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi?  I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams. 

That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade.  But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo.  They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract.  With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January.  I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade.  The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer.  The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2018, 06:57:32 AM »

Online Androslav

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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi?  I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams. 

That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade.  But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo.  They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract.  With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January.  I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade.  The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer.  The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.

Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
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Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2018, 07:48:19 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi?  I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams. 

That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade.  But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo.  They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract.  With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January.  I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade.  The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer.  The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.

Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
Exactly and very big downside with Wall's contract.  The Grizzlies aren't an organization willing to pay luxury tax. 

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2018, 08:40:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi?  I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams. 

That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade.  But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo.  They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract.  With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January.  I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade.  The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer.  The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.

Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
Wall is absolutely better than Conley.  He is a better passer, scorer, defender, rebounder, etc.  Conley is a better outside shooter, but that is about it.  Conley is also 3 years older than Wall and a much worse injury history that Wall has (Conley's games played the last 5 seasons are 12, 69, 56, 70, 73).  In fact, Wall missed 41 last year, but missed just 12 games combined in the 4 seasons prior to that. 

I totally get why Memphis might not want to mess up their chemistry since they are winning, but again what if they are a .500 type team in January.  Why wouldn't they want to get a younger and better player that is locked up longer (Conley will be older when his current contract ends then Wall will be when Wall's contract ends)

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2018, 09:25:13 AM »

Offline moiso

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I think Wall cares a great deal about the accumulation of his numbers.  I don't think Conley cares about that nearly as much.  Conley is a much better team player, and I think he's better on defense too.

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2018, 09:33:40 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi?  I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams. 

That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade.  But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo.  They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract.  With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January.  I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade.  The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer.  The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.

Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
Wall is absolutely better than Conley.  He is a better passer, scorer, defender, rebounder, etc.  Conley is a better outside shooter, but that is about it.  Conley is also 3 years older than Wall and a much worse injury history that Wall has (Conley's games played the last 5 seasons are 12, 69, 56, 70, 73).  In fact, Wall missed 41 last year, but missed just 12 games combined in the 4 seasons prior to that. 

I totally get why Memphis might not want to mess up their chemistry since they are winning, but again what if they are a .500 type team in January.  Why wouldn't they want to get a younger and better player that is locked up longer (Conley will be older when his current contract ends then Wall will be when Wall's contract ends)

Conley is undoubtedly the better defender, when you factor in substance (not gambling unnecessarily, not getting beat backdoor as a result of losing focus, etc.) over style (athleticism). Plus, Wall would not be a good fit in the Grizzlies slower tempo. Wall excels in transition, which is exactly the style of play the Grizzlies don't want to play. They don't even have the personnel  to do so even if they wanted to. Memphis also has issues with spacing/perimeter shooting so bringing in a non-shooter like Wall wouldn't work. Also, they run a lot of offense though Gasol. Conley can space the floor and moves really well off-the-ball, Wall's game detroriates considerably when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

Just not a good idea for Memphis.

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2018, 09:41:22 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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He has an awful contract starting next season, so that automatically lowers his trade value. However, if Washington is ever going to trade him, now may be the best time, while he has a more reasonable salary to match this season.

I think a team like Milwaukee should take the chance, as their not exactly the mecca for free agents to sign. I know the Buck are playing really well right now, but Wall may be the difference in advancing in the playoffs. Wall for Eric Bledsoe (expiring), Thon Maker, and Donte DiVincenzo.

This will give the Bucks a big 3 of Antetokounmpo, Wall, and Middleton.

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2018, 10:07:25 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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He has an awful contract starting next season, so that automatically lowers his trade value. However, if Washington is ever going to trade him, now may be the best time, while he has a more reasonable salary to match this season.

I think a team like Milwaukee should take the chance, as their not exactly the mecca for free agents to sign. I know the Buck are playing really well right now, but Wall may be the difference in advancing in the playoffs. Wall for Eric Bledsoe (expiring), Thon Maker, and Donte DiVincenzo.

This will give the Bucks a big 3 of Antetokounmpo, Wall, and Middleton.

Agree, I'm actually pretty worried that the Bucks, Sixers, or Raptors land him. All three of those clubs could theoretically match salaries without giving up any of their stars. Throw in some unprotected picks and you get a star without hurting your core much.

Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2018, 10:17:16 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to.  He is a star player.  If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him.  Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?

But he's not a good star player.

I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative.  For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.

Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.

Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.

Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.

Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.

HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.

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Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2018, 10:50:25 AM »

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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to.  He is a star player.  If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him.  Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?

But he's not a good star player.

I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative.  For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.

Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.

Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.

Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.

Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.

HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.

Dude looks like he's stopped caring for years


Re: what are some of the offers for John Wall going to look like?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2018, 11:08:45 AM »

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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to.  He is a star player.  If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him.  Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?

But he's not a good star player.

I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative.  For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.

Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.

Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.

Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.

Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.

HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.

I agree that Wall has flaws, as does Butler.  I was just trying to create a more definitive metric than "good star" or "not good star".  Contracts are always a factor in the real world but in the hypothetical forum world, you can simply discuss who is better.  I think both are really good players, fairly comparable in talent and historical production.  But Wall, when focused, when on his game, can take over (as I have seen him do in some playoff games) more so than Butler can.  For that, I give Wall a sight edge over Butler but the main point is that Wall is a comparable talent to Butler and I would expect teams to be interested in Wall.


 

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