Author Topic: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18  (Read 4207 times)

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Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #405 on: November 17, 2018, 11:21:52 PM »

Offline mctyson

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You live by the three you die by the three. There are going to be a ton of blowouts this year because the C's drain 20+ threes in a game. But there will be games like tonight where it doesn't matter how open those shots are and they just won't go down.

This is called a failure by the coaching staff for implementing a philosophy that is that volatile.

It's still early in the season, so hopefully they'll adjust, but as it looks right now it seems Brad and the coaching staff are content with us playing this type of ball with us just chucking up three after three, regardless of the results leading to games like this, which is inexcusable for a team with championship aspirations.
All five starters have shown to be very good(+38%) from three in their career. Analytics show guys who can shoot that good are better off shooting those wide open threes than forcing other shots. It's the new NBA. Golden State and Houston have thrived with similar systems. When everyone gets used to their roles and feel confident and comfortable in their roles, those threes are gonna drop and this team will take off.

Have patience. It not about how you play in October and November. It's how you play in April, May and June that counts.

Agree, but that is also very naive because they will be playing on someone else's court in the playoffs, and they will likely lose because of that.
You're assuming the rest of the year they play at this level. That's naive. There is no reason to believe that this team won't cruise through easy parts of the schedule and rack up tons of wins. They have had a very difficult schedule this far, one of the hardest in the league.

Dude they are 9-7.  That is a .500 team through 1/5 of the season, and they are FAR from dominant in any wins.  No way this team is #1 in the East as currently constructed, I would be everything on that.

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #406 on: November 17, 2018, 11:27:02 PM »

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You live by the three you die by the three. There are going to be a ton of blowouts this year because the C's drain 20+ threes in a game. But there will be games like tonight where it doesn't matter how open those shots are and they just won't go down.

This is called a failure by the coaching staff for implementing a philosophy that is that volatile.

It's still early in the season, so hopefully they'll adjust, but as it looks right now it seems Brad and the coaching staff are content with us playing this type of ball with us just chucking up three after three, regardless of the results leading to games like this, which is inexcusable for a team with championship aspirations.
All five starters have shown to be very good(+38%) from three in their career. Analytics show guys who can shoot that good are better off shooting those wide open threes than forcing other shots. It's the new NBA. Golden State and Houston have thrived with similar systems. When everyone gets used to their roles and feel confident and comfortable in their roles, those threes are gonna drop and this team will take off.

Have patience. It not about how you play in October and November. It's how you play in April, May and June that counts.

Agree, but that is also very naive because they will be playing on someone else's court in the playoffs, and they will likely lose because of that.
You're assuming the rest of the year they play at this level. That's naive. There is no reason to believe that this team won't cruise through easy parts of the schedule and rack up tons of wins. They have had a very difficult schedule this far, one of the hardest in the league.

Dude they are 9-7.  That is a .500 team through 1/5 of the season, and they are FAR from dominant in any wins.  No way this team is #1 in the East as currently constructed, I would be everything on that.
The large majority of their games this year have been against playoff teams with a bunch on the road. Who have they played that are truly bad teams? Phoenix, Orlando, NY, and Chicago? That's like it. The other 13 games have been against good to great teams. Over the next 9-10 games they play one playoff team, NOP at New Orleans. Other than that they play the poor sisters of the league. My guess is they will not be close to a .500 team 10 games from now.

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #407 on: November 18, 2018, 12:48:30 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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You live by the three you die by the three. There are going to be a ton of blowouts this year because the C's drain 20+ threes in a game. But there will be games like tonight where it doesn't matter how open those shots are and they just won't go down.

This is called a failure by the coaching staff for implementing a philosophy that is that volatile.

It's still early in the season, so hopefully they'll adjust, but as it looks right now it seems Brad and the coaching staff are content with us playing this type of ball with us just chucking up three after three, regardless of the results leading to games like this, which is inexcusable for a team with championship aspirations.
All five starters have shown to be very good(+38%) from three in their career. Analytics show guys who can shoot that good are better off shooting those wide open threes than forcing other shots. It's the new NBA. Golden State and Houston have thrived with similar systems. When everyone gets used to their roles and feel confident and comfortable in their roles, those threes are gonna drop and this team will take off.

Have patience. It not about how you play in October and November. It's how you play in April, May and June that counts.

Agree, but that is also very naive because they will be playing on someone else's court in the playoffs, and they will likely lose because of that.
You're assuming the rest of the year they play at this level. That's naive. There is no reason to believe that this team won't cruise through easy parts of the schedule and rack up tons of wins. They have had a very difficult schedule this far, one of the hardest in the league.

Dude they are 9-7.  That is a .500 team through 1/5 of the season, and they are FAR from dominant in any wins.  No way this team is #1 in the East as currently constructed, I would be everything on that.
The large majority of their games this year have been against playoff teams with a bunch on the road. Who have they played that are truly bad teams? Phoenix, Orlando, NY, and Chicago? That's like it. The other 13 games have been against good to great teams. Over the next 9-10 games they play one playoff team, NOP at New Orleans. Other than that they play the poor sisters of the league. My guess is they will not be close to a .500 team 10 games from now.

Let's say they do, in fact, start beating up on the lesser teams, as they did Chicago the other night; that'll help their record, but my concern is that it doesn't mean they'll finally start playing consistently well against good and great teams. And how far down in the standings will they be by the time they figure things out?
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Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #408 on: November 18, 2018, 02:05:06 AM »

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You live by the three you die by the three. There are going to be a ton of blowouts this year because the C's drain 20+ threes in a game. But there will be games like tonight where it doesn't matter how open those shots are and they just won't go down.

This is called a failure by the coaching staff for implementing a philosophy that is that volatile.

It's still early in the season, so hopefully they'll adjust, but as it looks right now it seems Brad and the coaching staff are content with us playing this type of ball with us just chucking up three after three, regardless of the results leading to games like this, which is inexcusable for a team with championship aspirations.
All five starters have shown to be very good(+38%) from three in their career. Analytics show guys who can shoot that good are better off shooting those wide open threes than forcing other shots. It's the new NBA. Golden State and Houston have thrived with similar systems. When everyone gets used to their roles and feel confident and comfortable in their roles, those threes are gonna drop and this team will take off.

Have patience. It not about how you play in October and November. It's how you play in April, May and June that counts.

Agree, but that is also very naive because they will be playing on someone else's court in the playoffs, and they will likely lose because of that.
You're assuming the rest of the year they play at this level. That's naive. There is no reason to believe that this team won't cruise through easy parts of the schedule and rack up tons of wins. They have had a very difficult schedule this far, one of the hardest in the league.

Dude they are 9-7.  That is a .500 team through 1/5 of the season, and they are FAR from dominant in any wins.  No way this team is #1 in the East as currently constructed, I would be everything on that.
The large majority of their games this year have been against playoff teams with a bunch on the road. Who have they played that are truly bad teams? Phoenix, Orlando, NY, and Chicago? That's like it. The other 13 games have been against good to great teams. Over the next 9-10 games they play one playoff team, NOP at New Orleans. Other than that they play the poor sisters of the league. My guess is they will not be close to a .500 team 10 games from now.

Let's say they do, in fact, start beating up on the lesser teams, as they did Chicago the other night; that'll help their record, but my concern is that it doesn't mean they'll finally start playing consistently well against good and great teams. And how far down in the standings will they be by the time they figure things out?
If they get to the playoffs and win 60+% of each of their playoff series games each series, they are World Champs. It's not like this team has been awful versus good to great teams. They beat Toronto, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, OKC, and Detroit twice. Some of their losses have come to Toronto, Utah, Indiana, Denver and Portland all on the road and Utah at home.

They have had exactly one bad loss all season. One. They have proven they can beat good to great teams, especially at home, during a grueling part of their schedule where the best part of their schedule was three straight home games.......IN 4 DAYS!!!! And have been doing this while trying to integrate two stars into the lineup after injury plagued seasons last year while asking three young players like Brown, Tatum and Rozier to play much more  limited roles than they exceeded at last year in much bigger roles.

I actually think it's a miracle they aren't 5-11 right now, especially given how poorly Steven's has handled this team this year.


Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #409 on: November 18, 2018, 02:47:40 AM »

Offline bopna

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Trade Jaylen Brown...

He was projected to be what Donovan Mitchell is to the Jazz but man JaB is just as much worst... No improvement what so ever from summer...

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #410 on: November 18, 2018, 05:50:58 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
He was projected to be what Donovan Mitchell is to the Jazz but man JaB is just as much worst... No improvement what so ever from summer...

Because guys who are struggling always bring back good trade value........NOT!

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #411 on: November 18, 2018, 06:16:34 AM »

Online Somebody

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People are getting crazy over Brown struggling to adjust going from a 1st/2nd option in the playoffs to a 4th/5th option this season...he was always a rhythm shooter that needed a few shots to settle into the game mentally, it also doesn't help that Stevens yanks him out of the game whenever he gets hot. Please remember that he's the youngest Celtic to ever get 30+ in a playoff game, and he did it TWICE on good efficiency against an excellent 3 and D player in Middleton. I'm more p---ed at Stevens' infatuation for small ball from the get go against centers like Gobert, it just doesn't work...

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #412 on: November 18, 2018, 06:16:47 AM »

Online Androslav

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Terry looked very nervous last night. Forcing the game.
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Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #413 on: November 18, 2018, 07:20:46 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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this is how Rozier will look on a new team.  Nobody will want him .  He is fake product of the CBs system

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #414 on: November 18, 2018, 07:23:41 AM »

Offline gouki88

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People are getting crazy over Brown struggling to adjust going from a 1st/2nd option in the playoffs to a 4th/5th option this season...he was always a rhythm shooter that needed a few shots to settle into the game mentally, it also doesn't help that Stevens yanks him out of the game whenever he gets hot. Please remember that he's the youngest Celtic to ever get 30+ in a playoff game, and he did it TWICE on good efficiency against an excellent 3 and D player in Middleton. I'm more p---ed at Stevens' infatuation for small ball from the get go against centers like Gobert, it just doesn't work...
He's taking more shots in less time on the court, so needing shots isn't the problem at all. It's his inability to make them.

Also, if a guy is disengaged mentally because he's not getting shots then that's a problem in itself

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #415 on: November 18, 2018, 07:42:43 AM »

Offline Green-18

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People are getting crazy over Brown struggling to adjust going from a 1st/2nd option in the playoffs to a 4th/5th option this season...he was always a rhythm shooter that needed a few shots to settle into the game mentally, it also doesn't help that Stevens yanks him out of the game whenever he gets hot. Please remember that he's the youngest Celtic to ever get 30+ in a playoff game, and he did it TWICE on good efficiency against an excellent 3 and D player in Middleton. I'm more p---ed at Stevens' infatuation for small ball from the get go against centers like Gobert, it just doesn't work...
He's taking more shots in less time on the court, so needing shots isn't the problem at all. It's his inability to make them.

Also, if a guy is disengaged mentally because he's not getting shots then that's a problem in itself


Does anyone think overconfidence might have lead to Jaylen not putting as much effort into the off-season?  I'm not saying he didn't work hard.  I just think the reality is that Jaylen needs to work twice as hard on his offensive game.  Sometimes we forget how much of a raw prospect he was coming out of college.  Advanced analytics ranked Brown as one of the worst offensive prospects in the draft.  As I mentioned in another thread, I really hope this is a humbling experience that motivates Jaylen to put in the same work as the summer of 2017. 

Personally I'm willing to remain patient as long as the team is committed to getting better without pointing fingers. 

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #416 on: November 18, 2018, 08:07:50 AM »

Offline gouki88

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People are getting crazy over Brown struggling to adjust going from a 1st/2nd option in the playoffs to a 4th/5th option this season...he was always a rhythm shooter that needed a few shots to settle into the game mentally, it also doesn't help that Stevens yanks him out of the game whenever he gets hot. Please remember that he's the youngest Celtic to ever get 30+ in a playoff game, and he did it TWICE on good efficiency against an excellent 3 and D player in Middleton. I'm more p---ed at Stevens' infatuation for small ball from the get go against centers like Gobert, it just doesn't work...
He's taking more shots in less time on the court, so needing shots isn't the problem at all. It's his inability to make them.

Also, if a guy is disengaged mentally because he's not getting shots then that's a problem in itself


Does anyone think overconfidence might have lead to Jaylen not putting as much effort into the off-season?  I'm not saying he didn't work hard.  I just think the reality is that Jaylen needs to work twice as hard on his offensive game.  Sometimes we forget how much of a raw prospect he was coming out of college.  Advanced analytics ranked Brown as one of the worst offensive prospects in the draft.  As I mentioned in another thread, I really hope this is a humbling experience that motivates Jaylen to put in the same work as the summer of 2017. 

Personally I'm willing to remain patient as long as the team is committed to getting better without pointing fingers.
Itís definitely a possibility. In this day and age it would be hard to avoid all the raving by media outlets about how heís one of the best young wings in the league and how impressive his playoff performances were - all of which is true - but it may have gotten to his head a bit.

He doesnít seem to have made any real significant strides, especially when compared to his rookie-sophomore jump. His handle looks the same, his shooting is worse, and his ability to get to where he wants on the court with the ball is the same. Very weird

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #417 on: November 18, 2018, 08:24:26 AM »

Offline coco

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Very disappointed.  You would think the guys would be thirsty for payback after being humiliated in Utah.   >:(

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #418 on: November 18, 2018, 09:14:19 AM »

Offline Green-18

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People are getting crazy over Brown struggling to adjust going from a 1st/2nd option in the playoffs to a 4th/5th option this season...he was always a rhythm shooter that needed a few shots to settle into the game mentally, it also doesn't help that Stevens yanks him out of the game whenever he gets hot. Please remember that he's the youngest Celtic to ever get 30+ in a playoff game, and he did it TWICE on good efficiency against an excellent 3 and D player in Middleton. I'm more p---ed at Stevens' infatuation for small ball from the get go against centers like Gobert, it just doesn't work...
He's taking more shots in less time on the court, so needing shots isn't the problem at all. It's his inability to make them.

Also, if a guy is disengaged mentally because he's not getting shots then that's a problem in itself


Does anyone think overconfidence might have lead to Jaylen not putting as much effort into the off-season?  I'm not saying he didn't work hard.  I just think the reality is that Jaylen needs to work twice as hard on his offensive game.  Sometimes we forget how much of a raw prospect he was coming out of college.  Advanced analytics ranked Brown as one of the worst offensive prospects in the draft.  As I mentioned in another thread, I really hope this is a humbling experience that motivates Jaylen to put in the same work as the summer of 2017. 

Personally I'm willing to remain patient as long as the team is committed to getting better without pointing fingers.
Itís definitely a possibility. In this day and age it would be hard to avoid all the raving by media outlets about how heís one of the best young wings in the league and how impressive his playoff performances were - all of which is true - but it may have gotten to his head a bit.

He doesnít seem to have made any real significant strides, especially when compared to his rookie-sophomore jump. His handle looks the same, his shooting is worse, and his ability to get to where he wants on the court with the ball is the same. Very weird

Very weird indeed.  It's the only rational explanation I can come up with.  Shooting is an aspect of the game that Jaylen will always need to prioritize.  It's possible to work yourself into being a very good shooter.  He just needs to realize that it's going to be a focus point for the rest of his career.

I'm still optimistic because he made it happen last season.  At least he's not like Westbrook, Wall, DeRozan etc.  All three of them have failed to make significant strides from beyond the arc. 

Re: Jazz (7-8) at Celtics (9-6) Game#16 11/17/18
« Reply #419 on: November 18, 2018, 11:57:19 AM »

Offline mctyson

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You live by the three you die by the three. There are going to be a ton of blowouts this year because the C's drain 20+ threes in a game. But there will be games like tonight where it doesn't matter how open those shots are and they just won't go down.

This is called a failure by the coaching staff for implementing a philosophy that is that volatile.

It's still early in the season, so hopefully they'll adjust, but as it looks right now it seems Brad and the coaching staff are content with us playing this type of ball with us just chucking up three after three, regardless of the results leading to games like this, which is inexcusable for a team with championship aspirations.
All five starters have shown to be very good(+38%) from three in their career. Analytics show guys who can shoot that good are better off shooting those wide open threes than forcing other shots. It's the new NBA. Golden State and Houston have thrived with similar systems. When everyone gets used to their roles and feel confident and comfortable in their roles, those threes are gonna drop and this team will take off.

Have patience. It not about how you play in October and November. It's how you play in April, May and June that counts.

Agree, but that is also very naive because they will be playing on someone else's court in the playoffs, and they will likely lose because of that.
You're assuming the rest of the year they play at this level. That's naive. There is no reason to believe that this team won't cruise through easy parts of the schedule and rack up tons of wins. They have had a very difficult schedule this far, one of the hardest in the league.

Dude they are 9-7.  That is a .500 team through 1/5 of the season, and they are FAR from dominant in any wins.  No way this team is #1 in the East as currently constructed, I would be everything on that.
The large majority of their games this year have been against playoff teams with a bunch on the road. Who have they played that are truly bad teams? Phoenix, Orlando, NY, and Chicago? That's like it. The other 13 games have been against good to great teams. Over the next 9-10 games they play one playoff team, NOP at New Orleans. Other than that they play the poor sisters of the league. My guess is they will not be close to a .500 team 10 games from now.

Let's say they do, in fact, start beating up on the lesser teams, as they did Chicago the other night; that'll help their record, but my concern is that it doesn't mean they'll finally start playing consistently well against good and great teams. And how far down in the standings will they be by the time they figure things out?
If they get to the playoffs and win 60+% of each of their playoff series games each series, they are World Champs. It's not like this team has been awful versus good to great teams. They beat Toronto, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, OKC, and Detroit twice. Some of their losses have come to Toronto, Utah, Indiana, Denver and Portland all on the road and Utah at home.

They have had exactly one bad loss all season. One. They have proven they can beat good to great teams, especially at home, during a grueling part of their schedule where the best part of their schedule was three straight home games.......IN 4 DAYS!!!! And have been doing this while trying to integrate two stars into the lineup after injury plagued seasons last year while asking three young players like Brown, Tatum and Rozier to play much more  limited roles than they exceeded at last year in much bigger roles.

I actually think it's a miracle they aren't 5-11 right now, especially given how poorly Steven's has handled this team this year.

And my point is that regardless of what their true record should be right now, or will be once they play some lesser teams, they are in no way demonstrating that they are a threat to win a 7 game series without home court advantage against Toronto, and I am not so sure they would be Milwaukee either.

Something dramatic needs to happen for that to change.

 

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