Author Topic: Time to change the starters  (Read 1864 times)

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Time to change the starters
« on: November 06, 2018, 02:18:32 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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It's not a panic move but more of a move to bring Kyrie and Hayward up to speed. You're paying these guys big money, let them earn it for now.

Smart
Kyrie
Hayward
Horford
Baynes

If Stevens goes to Brown and Tatum at the same time it may make for a smoother transition. His reasoning can be to get Irving and Hayward back into their mentality of being the #1 and #2 scorers. Then over time, he can bring Brown and Tatum back into the starting unit.

I just think it's hard for these two coming back from injury to get back in stride when their shots are being split up. It will make all four of them be more assertive with the first and second units. Brown and Tatum would be the go-to guys on the second unit. Stevens can still finish the game with all of them.


Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 02:49:24 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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TP for thinking outside of the box.

Hayward needs to start and figure out how it works. He is slowly, getting less tentative, but, might be deferring too often to get some shooting rhythm.

I think a lot of the players are concerned with "spreading the ball" and it should be more about "scoring."

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 04:40:46 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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We have two teams....it is time for the coach to act and coach like it.

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 04:56:21 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Actually, yeah, benching two of your 5 best players is a panic move

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 06:59:41 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Actually, yeah, benching two of your 5 best players is a panic move

`at some point with super teams you are going to have to stop thinking about this as benching. You are merely changing the role of players.

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 08:34:40 PM »

Online moiso

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I like this idea a lot more than sending Hayward to the G league.  I donít think it will happen, but I can see the reasoning behind this idea.  The starting lineup would have two dirt dogs in it who donít care about scoring.  I like the balance this way.  It would never happen though.

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 08:43:51 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I like this idea a lot more than sending Hayward to the G league.
I sure hope this doesnít become the benchmark ;D

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 03:43:46 AM »

Online GreenEnvy

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Why are we obsessing over something that wonít and shouldnít happen?

End of first quarter differential:

PHI 0
TOR +7
NYK +13
ORL -9
OKC -6
DET +9
DET +3
MIL +7
IND +10
DEN +15

We lead by 4.9 points after Q1 (that extrapolates to +19.6PPG), so this tired rhetoric that we get off to sluggish starts and that the starting unit is getting killed is clearly a misnomer.

Only one game we lost because of a poor start (Orlando). The other (OKC) we overcame and the rest of our losses came after the first. If you want to complain about us coughing up leads, thatís an entirely different story regarding Stevens substitutions.

Jaylen is the only one with a negative BPM, and thereís no reason to demote a kid (whoís 2 weeks past his 22nd birthday coming off an impressive playoff run) 10 games into the season. Likewise, Hayward is getting back into game shape mentally and physically and demoting him is also counterproductive to what our goal is. He needs to play against the best and with the guys who heís going to get the most run with.


I surely hope Ainge has already decided to not tender a QO to Rozier; the guy is shooting 35.5% after 10 games! Can we just cut him already?

And Rozier is a sharpshooter compared to Smart. I mean seriously, canít some of us shoot 18.5% from beyond the arc? If Ainge doesnít trade him January 15th, Wyc should seriously consider firing him. Worst contract ever?!?


But seriously, itís 10 games! Everyone needs to sit back and relax. Hot takes after every game (win or lose) are not going to change anything. Iíd be worried if we were playing well and still losing. Our defense has been mostly great, and our offense has been mostly bad. We have been one of the worst teams in the league at open threes, something that clearly will not continue that much longer.

The personnel isnít wrong. This team has been built correctly. Starters and bench. Absolutely no reason for a panic move, which is exactly what changing the starting unit would be.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 04:17:18 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Why are we obsessing over something that wonít and shouldnít happen?

End of first quarter differential:

PHI 0
TOR +7
NYK +13
ORL -9
OKC -6
DET +9
DET +3
MIL +7
IND +10
DEN +15

We lead by 4.9 points after Q1 (that extrapolates to +19.6PPG), so this tired rhetoric that we get off to sluggish starts and that the starting unit is getting killed is clearly a misnomer.

Only one game we lost because of a poor start (Orlando). The other (OKC) we overcame and the rest of our losses came after the first. If you want to complain about us coughing up leads, thatís an entirely different story regarding Stevens substitutions.

Jaylen is the only one with a negative BPM, and thereís no reason to demote a kid (whoís 2 weeks past his 22nd birthday coming off an impressive playoff run) 10 games into the season. Likewise, Hayward is getting back into game shape mentally and physically and demoting him is also counterproductive to what our goal is. He needs to play against the best and with the guys who heís going to get the most run with.


I surely hope Ainge has already decided to not tender a QO to Rozier; the guy is shooting 35.5% after 10 games! Can we just cut him already?

And Rozier is a sharpshooter compared to Smart. I mean seriously, canít some of us shoot 18.5% from beyond the arc? If Ainge doesnít trade him January 15th, Wyc should seriously consider firing him. Worst contract ever?!?


But seriously, itís 10 games! Everyone needs to sit back and relax. Hot takes after every game (win or lose) are not going to change anything. Iíd be worried if we were playing well and still losing. Our defense has been mostly great, and our offense has been mostly bad. We have been one of the worst teams in the league at open threes, something that clearly will not continue that much longer.

The personnel isnít wrong. This team has been built correctly. Starters and bench. Absolutely no reason for a panic move, which is exactly what changing the starting unit would be.
I basically agree with everything you said, lol. The overreactions aren't especially surprising, but some of the takes have been extra hot.

What I don't think is an overreaction is the desire to see Rozier moved. He has clearly not bought into his role, and has regressed back to being an inefficient chucker who gets some of the worst tunnel-vision in the league, despite showing promise in the playoffs.

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2018, 06:05:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
The overreactions aren't especially surprising, but some of the takes have been extra hot.

We've always had a lot of sky is falling types here.

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2018, 07:51:51 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Why are we obsessing over something that wonít and shouldnít happen?

End of first quarter differential:

PHI 0
TOR +7
NYK +13
ORL -9
OKC -6
DET +9
DET +3
MIL +7
IND +10
DEN +15

We lead by 4.9 points after Q1 (that extrapolates to +19.6PPG), so this tired rhetoric that we get off to sluggish starts and that the starting unit is getting killed is clearly a misnomer.

Only one game we lost because of a poor start (Orlando). The other (OKC) we overcame and the rest of our losses came after the first. If you want to complain about us coughing up leads, thatís an entirely different story regarding Stevens substitutions.

Jaylen is the only one with a negative BPM, and thereís no reason to demote a kid (whoís 2 weeks past his 22nd birthday coming off an impressive playoff run) 10 games into the season. Likewise, Hayward is getting back into game shape mentally and physically and demoting him is also counterproductive to what our goal is. He needs to play against the best and with the guys who heís going to get the most run with.


I surely hope Ainge has already decided to not tender a QO to Rozier; the guy is shooting 35.5% after 10 games! Can we just cut him already?

And Rozier is a sharpshooter compared to Smart. I mean seriously, canít some of us shoot 18.5% from beyond the arc? If Ainge doesnít trade him January 15th, Wyc should seriously consider firing him. Worst contract ever?!?


But seriously, itís 10 games! Everyone needs to sit back and relax. Hot takes after every game (win or lose) are not going to change anything. Iíd be worried if we were playing well and still losing. Our defense has been mostly great, and our offense has been mostly bad. We have been one of the worst teams in the league at open threes, something that clearly will not continue that much longer.

The personnel isnít wrong. This team has been built correctly. Starters and bench. Absolutely no reason for a panic move, which is exactly what changing the starting unit would be.
I basically agree with everything you said, lol. The overreactions aren't especially surprising, but some of the takes have been extra hot.

What I don't think is an overreaction is the desire to see Rozier moved. He has clearly not bought into his role, and has regressed back to being an inefficient chucker who gets some of the worst tunnel-vision in the league, despite showing promise in the playoffs.

Wait, you'll are really focusing on Rozier being the problem? You can't be serious...what games are you watching? He's like 5th on the list of our problems. LOL

Stop jacking 3s and a lot of our problems go away...period!!

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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The only change I might consider is to move Baynes into the starting lineup to pump up the staring defense and moving Tatum or Hayward to the bench to be the offensive focus of the second unit. 


I would still play them the same amount of minutes.   


Other issues is the lack of a trust worthy big man off the bench with Theis out. 



But at this point, I wouldn't make that move yet. 

Knicks: Irving, Drummond, Marcus Morris, S. Muhammad, C. Lee, Sullinger, Hield, M. Chriss , V. Carter, T. Zeller, N. Cole, T. Prince, Livio Jean-Charles, Tyler Ulis, N. Collison

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2018, 09:09:27 AM »

Offline Androslav

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No.

Don't give in to the panic reflex.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2018, 12:14:30 PM »

Online RodyTur10

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No.

Don't give in to the panic reflex.

Why keep calling it a panic reflex?

I (and others) have wanted to have a starting line-up with 2 bigs since the summer of '17.

It's just that the argument has started again now that things aren't going as well as we all hoped. I have always wanted a more balanced rotation.
George Carlin ó 'That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.'

Re: Time to change the starters
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2018, 01:28:52 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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It's not a panic move but more of a move to bring Kyrie and Hayward up to speed. You're paying these guys big money, let them earn it for now.

Smart
Kyrie
Hayward
Horford
Baynes

If Stevens goes to Brown and Tatum at the same time it may make for a smoother transition. His reasoning can be to get Irving and Hayward back into their mentality of being the #1 and #2 scorers. Then over time, he can bring Brown and Tatum back into the starting unit.

I just think it's hard for these two coming back from injury to get back in stride when their shots are being split up. It will make all four of them be more assertive with the first and second units. Brown and Tatum would be the go-to guys on the second unit. Stevens can still finish the game with all of them.



This is an excellent idea. Adding Smart gives additional playmaking, ball handling and no loss of defense. Allow Kyrie and Hayward to either sink or swim running the show.

When Tatum and Brown come into the game, allow them to drive the offense just like they did last year in the playoffs. Without both Kyrie and Hayward. Maybe Horford plays with them. 

 

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