Author Topic: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle  (Read 2072 times)

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Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2018, 07:25:58 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.  He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid or give him any real shooting difficulty.  Embiid can also just shoot right over him.

But yet he does give him trouble, and he does this with his mass and positioning.

Uh-0h someone found some stats that blow you out of the water

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Joel+Embiid&player_id1_select=Joel+Embiid&player_id1=embiijo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Aron+Baynes&player_id2_select=Aron+Baynes&player_id2=baynear01&idx=players

Embiid shoots .397 in the regular season and in the post season .441 against Baynes.  His PPG were down too,  something to the tune of down to 18.8 PPG against Baynes vs.  26.5 ppg vs. the rest of the league.     It is clear according to these basketball reference stats that he makes Embiid less efficient.  Sure Baynes is not the quality of player, Embiid is, I mean Embiid is a superstar.   But he still affects him but he will never be as good.  But Baynes is a cheap backup center who plays good D. Against the NBA as a whole Baynes shoots 51% so he is a lot worse against Aron.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/10/17/17988420/game-analysis-joel-embiid-vs-aron-baynes-celtics-sixers-nba-the-process

37 in defensive win shares and he is a back up

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1

No one will ever truly contain Baynes, but the idea is to limit him and Baynes does.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 07:29:26 PM »

Online gouki88

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You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.  He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid or give him any real shooting difficulty.  Embiid can also just shoot right over him.

But yet he does give him trouble, and he does this with his mass and positioning.

Uh-0h someone found some stats that blow you out of the water

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Joel+Embiid&player_id1_select=Joel+Embiid&player_id1=embiijo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Aron+Baynes&player_id2_select=Aron+Baynes&player_id2=baynear01&idx=players

Embiid shoots .397 in the regular season and in the post season .441 against Baynes.  His PPG were down too,  something to the tune of down to 18.8 PPG against Baynes vs.  26.5 ppg vs. the rest of the league.     It is clear according to these basketball reference stats that he makes Embiid less efficient.  Sure Baynes is not the quality of player, Embiid is, I mean Embiid is a superstar.   But he still affects him but he will never be as good.  But Baynes is a cheap backup center who plays good D. Against the NBA as a whole Baynes shoots 51% so he is a lot worse against Aron.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/10/17/17988420/game-analysis-joel-embiid-vs-aron-baynes-celtics-sixers-nba-the-process

37 in defensive win shares and he is a back up

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1

No one will ever truly contain Baynes, but the idea is to limit him and Baynes does.
This is my favourite typo on CelticsStrong I think.

Thank you for the stats though
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Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 09:03:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.  He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid or give him any real shooting difficulty.  Embiid can also just shoot right over him.

But yet he does give him trouble, and he does this with his mass and positioning.

Uh-0h someone found some stats that blow you out of the water

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Joel+Embiid&player_id1_select=Joel+Embiid&player_id1=embiijo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Aron+Baynes&player_id2_select=Aron+Baynes&player_id2=baynear01&idx=players

Embiid shoots .397 in the regular season and in the post season .441 against Baynes.  His PPG were down too,  something to the tune of down to 18.8 PPG against Baynes vs.  26.5 ppg vs. the rest of the league.     It is clear according to these basketball reference stats that he makes Embiid less efficient.  Sure Baynes is not the quality of player, Embiid is, I mean Embiid is a superstar.   But he still affects him but he will never be as good.  But Baynes is a cheap backup center who plays good D. Against the NBA as a whole Baynes shoots 51% so he is a lot worse against Aron.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/10/17/17988420/game-analysis-joel-embiid-vs-aron-baynes-celtics-sixers-nba-the-process

37 in defensive win shares and he is a back up

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1

No one will ever truly contain Baynes, but the idea is to limit him and Baynes does.
those stats are stats against the teams, not just against each other. 

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 10:53:13 PM »

Offline Chris22

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I want Hayward as the sixth man because we desperately need shooting on the second unit.

I sick of seeing Smart throw up threes.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2018, 08:15:28 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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those stats are stats against the teams, not just against each other.

they are head to head stats.

I will give you one thing, CBS did not trust Baynes in the second half, last night, as it was face paced and he mainly plays against the other team real centers like Embiid and say  Jonas Valančiūnas.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2018, 09:12:10 AM »

Offline Moranis

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those stats are stats against the teams, not just against each other.

they are head to head stats.

I will give you one thing, CBS did not trust Baynes in the second half, last night, as it was face paced and he mainly plays against the other team real centers like Embiid and say  Jonas Valančiūnas.
They are team stats in the games where the players play.  That is why Embiid has nearly double the minutes, if they were actually head to head they would have the same minutes.

Baynes can only guard Jonas on the Raptors.  He can't guard the smaller faster guys.  This is what I've been saying all along and his substitution patterns actually reflect this.  He is good for 10-15 minutes in the games with the faster centers, but he shouldn't be playing more than that.  He just doesn't have the quickness to do it.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2018, 09:16:28 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.  He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid or give him any real shooting difficulty.  Embiid can also just shoot right over him.

But yet he does give him trouble, and he does this with his mass and positioning.

Uh-0h someone found some stats that blow you out of the water

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Joel+Embiid&player_id1_select=Joel+Embiid&player_id1=embiijo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Aron+Baynes&player_id2_select=Aron+Baynes&player_id2=baynear01&idx=players

Embiid shoots .397 in the regular season and in the post season .441 against Baynes.  His PPG were down too,  something to the tune of down to 18.8 PPG against Baynes vs.  26.5 ppg vs. the rest of the league.     It is clear according to these basketball reference stats that he makes Embiid less efficient.  Sure Baynes is not the quality of player, Embiid is, I mean Embiid is a superstar.   But he still affects him but he will never be as good.  But Baynes is a cheap backup center who plays good D. Against the NBA as a whole Baynes shoots 51% so he is a lot worse against Aron.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/10/17/17988420/game-analysis-joel-embiid-vs-aron-baynes-celtics-sixers-nba-the-process

37 in defensive win shares and he is a back up

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1

No one will ever truly contain Baynes, but the idea is to limit him and Baynes does.
those stats are stats against the teams, not just against each other.

Still better than your team scoring stats though.
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Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2018, 09:22:31 AM »

Offline Moranis

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You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.  He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid or give him any real shooting difficulty.  Embiid can also just shoot right over him.

But yet he does give him trouble, and he does this with his mass and positioning.

Uh-0h someone found some stats that blow you out of the water

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Joel+Embiid&player_id1_select=Joel+Embiid&player_id1=embiijo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Aron+Baynes&player_id2_select=Aron+Baynes&player_id2=baynear01&idx=players

Embiid shoots .397 in the regular season and in the post season .441 against Baynes.  His PPG were down too,  something to the tune of down to 18.8 PPG against Baynes vs.  26.5 ppg vs. the rest of the league.     It is clear according to these basketball reference stats that he makes Embiid less efficient.  Sure Baynes is not the quality of player, Embiid is, I mean Embiid is a superstar.   But he still affects him but he will never be as good.  But Baynes is a cheap backup center who plays good D. Against the NBA as a whole Baynes shoots 51% so he is a lot worse against Aron.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/10/17/17988420/game-analysis-joel-embiid-vs-aron-baynes-celtics-sixers-nba-the-process

37 in defensive win shares and he is a back up

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1

No one will ever truly contain Baynes, but the idea is to limit him and Baynes does.
those stats are stats against the teams, not just against each other.

Still better than your team scoring stats though.
Um no, because I've never argued that Embiid was effective against the Celtics.  Horford is a superb Embiid guarder and Horford played in all of those games.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2018, 10:53:53 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Quote from: Moranis
You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.
Quote from: Moranis
Embiid isn't blowing by him on the dribble or anything
Quote from: Moranis
He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid

So Baynes doesn't have the speed to keep up with Embiid even though Embiid isn't getting by Baynes with his speed. Do you seriously not see how these statements are incongruous?
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Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2018, 12:00:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Quote from: Moranis
You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not.
Quote from: Moranis
Embiid isn't blowing by him on the dribble or anything
Quote from: Moranis
He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid

So Baynes doesn't have the speed to keep up with Embiid even though Embiid isn't getting by Baynes with his speed. Do you seriously not see how these statements are incongruous?
again speed is a lot more then just running to points on the floor.  Embiid gets his shot off much faster than Baynes can defend it.  Embiid can dribble to a point on the floor and get a clean shot off basically every time against Baynes (he isn't blowing by Baynes, but he is going to where he wants to go and then gets there fast enough for Baynes to not interrupt the shot at all).  Embiid is not, however a great ball handler that is going to blow by any defender, he isn't a guard after all, but he can get off any shot he wants at any time when Baynes guards him in single coverage.  The only time Baynes has any sort of success is when Embiid gets the ball very deep in the paint and Baynes can get physical with him when Embiid has less options, but even then Embiid still gets his shot off faster then Baynes can defend it a lot of the time. 

 

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