Author Topic: Kings 2019 Draft Pick  (Read 2712 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2018, 11:18:31 AM »

Offline konkmv

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1367
  • Tommy Points: 86
If the pick does not give us a anthony davis you keep the pick

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2018, 12:41:15 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 213
  • Tommy Points: 45

De'Aarron Fox - High draft pick, strong in the clutch last season, and has publicly gone at other players including Lonzo. Hardly an ideal roll over tank commander.

Bogdan Bogdnavonic - All rookie second team and is playing for his next contract after already amassing a solid body of work in Euro Legue
-Note apparently he just had 2 knee surguries this offseason not sure where he is with his health-

Harry Giles III - Considered by far the best player of his class. We've seen players come back from ACL tears and have productive careers. Giles has everything you look for in a modern big man and comes with Duke Pedigree.

Marvin Bagley III - Who knows how good he can be but it's orth noting that he has the capability of being an extremely productive rebounder and finisher at the NBA level. Was he drafted too high over guys like Wendell Carter and Doncic? Probably. Is he already a bust? far from it.

Buddy Hield - One of the better young shooters in the game. Definitely playing for a contract. Hield has all of the ability to become a high volume combo guard. He doesn't have to be Curry to be a positive player for this franchise.

Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufous - Helped steal some games last year particularly when he matched up against Boogie. Prideful, solid hand locker room presence.

Willey Caulie Stein - Make it break it year for WCS. Has shown flashes but never put it together. They waived Papagiannis who was one of his biggest competitors for minutes.

Skal Labisseire - Was the consensus number 1 pick until he fell off. Has looked bigger in offseason workouts this summer. They only need 1 of these guys to take the next step for the Kings to become a palatable roster

Yogi Ferrell and Nemanja Bijelcia - Stealing these guys were the move of a team that is trying to establish winning ways not a tank squad.

Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I'm more "glass half-empty" on the Kings' roster than you are, though the real takeaway from your list of players is how hard to predict the whole thing is. In particular I'm less enthusiastic about De'Aaron Fox than you; but I agree that bringing in Bjelica is not the move of a tanking team. 

Hard to tell, but it looks like Bogdanovic' surgery was minor. (Is it not an annoyance that there is a Bogdan Bogdanovic and a Bojan Bogdanovic in the league at the same time?! - and they probably both call themselves "Boki".)

Buddy Hield should change his name to Buddy Hield III.

I'll bet that a lot of people called last season Willie Cauley-Stein's "make or break year"; but I'd say that he's a known quantity at this point.

Where teams finish is a big crapshoot, as always, but I wouldn't bet that Sac beats out Brooklyn
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 12:48:44 PM by Hoopvortex »

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2018, 11:42:15 PM »

Online Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1708
  • Tommy Points: 153
Kings looking to acquire Gorgui Dieng to help facilitate a Jimmy Butler deal.

Quote
To facilitate a Butler trade, the sort of broader deal necessary to meet the financial needs of Minnesota and Butler's future team, circumstances will necessitate bringing the Sacramento Kings into the process. If the Timberwolves remain intent on unloading backup center Gorgui Dieng and the three years and $48 million left on his contract, they will need the Kings. No one in the NBA comes close to the $11 million in salary-cap space that the Kings possess to absorb a contract, as well as the several expiring contracts -- including Zach Randolph ($11.6 million), Iman Shumpert ($11 million) and Kosta Koufos ($8.7 million) -- to move onto a team that prefers to clear cap space in July.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24788896/tom-thibodeau-pitches-jimmy-butler-rejoining-timberwolves

Gorgui Dieng is a durable, steady hand in the Frontcourt. Could be a good fit next to Bagley III.

Thibs gets his veteran presence so his team doesn't fall off of a cliff.

Good deal for both sides, now who takes Butler? I heard the Heat are really interested. Toronto and Houston are probably the most interesting.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:09:03 AM by Smartacus »

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2018, 12:04:58 AM »

Online liam

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16651
  • Tommy Points: 1110
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.

Exactly, for as bad as the Kings are in a vacuum/on paper they have an owner with deep pockets who is trying to build something.

As for the "very little talent" aspect well sure I guess but...

De'Aarron Fox - High draft pick, strong in the clutch last season, and has publicly gone at other players including Lonzo. Hardly an ideal roll over tank commander.

Bogdan Bogdnavonic - All rookie second team and is playing for his next contract after already amassing a solid body of work in Euro Legue
-Note apparently he just had 2 knee surguries this offseason not sure where he is with his health-

Harry Giles III - Considered by far the best player of his class. We've seen players come back from ACL tears and have productive careers. Giles has everything you look for in a modern big man and comes with Duke Pedigree.

Marvin Bagley III - Who knows how good he can be but it's orth noting that he has the capability of being an extremely productive rebounder and finisher at the NBA level. Was he drafted too high over guys like Wendell Carter and Doncic? Probably. Is he already a bust? far from it.

Buddy Hield - One of the better young shooters in the game. Definitely playing for a contract. Hield has all of the ability to become a high volume combo guard. He doesn't have to be Curry to be a positive player for this franchise.

Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufous - Helped steal some games last year particularly when he matched up against Boogie. Prideful, solid hand locker room presence.

Willey Caulie Stein - Make it break it year for WCS. Has shown flashes but never put it together. They waived Papagiannis who was one of his biggest competitors for minutes.

Skal Labisseire - Was the consensus number 1 pick until he fell off. Has looked bigger in offseason workouts this summer. They only need 1 of these guys to take the next step for the Kings to become a palatable roster

Yogi Ferrell and Nemanja Bijelcia - Stealing these guys were the move of a team that is trying to establish winning ways not a tank squad.

Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

To put that talent in perspective, none of those guys would start on the Celtics and probably none would get minutes off The Celtics bench! Maybe Hield would be the 10th man....

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2018, 12:16:57 AM »

Online Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1708
  • Tommy Points: 153
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.

Exactly, for as bad as the Kings are in a vacuum/on paper they have an owner with deep pockets who is trying to build something.

As for the "very little talent" aspect well sure I guess but...

De'Aarron Fox - High draft pick, strong in the clutch last season, and has publicly gone at other players including Lonzo. Hardly an ideal roll over tank commander.

Bogdan Bogdnavonic - All rookie second team and is playing for his next contract after already amassing a solid body of work in Euro Legue
-Note apparently he just had 2 knee surguries this offseason not sure where he is with his health-

Harry Giles III - Considered by far the best player of his class. We've seen players come back from ACL tears and have productive careers. Giles has everything you look for in a modern big man and comes with Duke Pedigree.

Marvin Bagley III - Who knows how good he can be but it's orth noting that he has the capability of being an extremely productive rebounder and finisher at the NBA level. Was he drafted too high over guys like Wendell Carter and Doncic? Probably. Is he already a bust? far from it.

Buddy Hield - One of the better young shooters in the game. Definitely playing for a contract. Hield has all of the ability to become a high volume combo guard. He doesn't have to be Curry to be a positive player for this franchise.

Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufous - Helped steal some games last year particularly when he matched up against Boogie. Prideful, solid hand locker room presence.

Willey Caulie Stein - Make it break it year for WCS. Has shown flashes but never put it together. They waived Papagiannis who was one of his biggest competitors for minutes.

Skal Labisseire - Was the consensus number 1 pick until he fell off. Has looked bigger in offseason workouts this summer. They only need 1 of these guys to take the next step for the Kings to become a palatable roster

Yogi Ferrell and Nemanja Bijelcia - Stealing these guys were the move of a team that is trying to establish winning ways not a tank squad.

Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

To put that talent in perspective, none of those guys would start on the Celtics and probably none would get minutes off The Celtics bench! Maybe Hield would be the 10th man....

Well you're also putting it up against one of the deepest teams in NBA history.

I'm not trying to say the Kings are going to be even top 25 just better than the teams that are  incentivized to tank. 4-7 range for draft odds.

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2018, 12:37:15 AM »

Online liam

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16651
  • Tommy Points: 1110
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.

Exactly, for as bad as the Kings are in a vacuum/on paper they have an owner with deep pockets who is trying to build something.

As for the "very little talent" aspect well sure I guess but...

De'Aarron Fox - High draft pick, strong in the clutch last season, and has publicly gone at other players including Lonzo. Hardly an ideal roll over tank commander.

Bogdan Bogdnavonic - All rookie second team and is playing for his next contract after already amassing a solid body of work in Euro Legue
-Note apparently he just had 2 knee surguries this offseason not sure where he is with his health-

Harry Giles III - Considered by far the best player of his class. We've seen players come back from ACL tears and have productive careers. Giles has everything you look for in a modern big man and comes with Duke Pedigree.

Marvin Bagley III - Who knows how good he can be but it's orth noting that he has the capability of being an extremely productive rebounder and finisher at the NBA level. Was he drafted too high over guys like Wendell Carter and Doncic? Probably. Is he already a bust? far from it.

Buddy Hield - One of the better young shooters in the game. Definitely playing for a contract. Hield has all of the ability to become a high volume combo guard. He doesn't have to be Curry to be a positive player for this franchise.

Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufous - Helped steal some games last year particularly when he matched up against Boogie. Prideful, solid hand locker room presence.

Willey Caulie Stein - Make it break it year for WCS. Has shown flashes but never put it together. They waived Papagiannis who was one of his biggest competitors for minutes.

Skal Labisseire - Was the consensus number 1 pick until he fell off. Has looked bigger in offseason workouts this summer. They only need 1 of these guys to take the next step for the Kings to become a palatable roster

Yogi Ferrell and Nemanja Bijelcia - Stealing these guys were the move of a team that is trying to establish winning ways not a tank squad.

Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

To put that talent in perspective, none of those guys would start on the Celtics and probably none would get minutes off The Celtics bench! Maybe Hield would be the 10th man....

Well you're also putting it up against one of the deepest teams in NBA history.

I'm not trying to say the Kings are going to be even top 25 just better than the teams that are  incentivized to tank. 4-7 range for draft odds.

The Kings are also in the West and it's going to be tough. But I also can't understand how the Kings won 27 games last year so maybe you are right.

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2018, 03:42:27 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3902
  • Tommy Points: 966
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2018, 08:40:41 AM »

Online smokeablount

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2340
  • Tommy Points: 173
  • When my account was born, Mark Blount was our C :(
2nd, 3rd or 4th worst in the NBA sounds right to me.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2018, 09:39:58 AM »

Online Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1708
  • Tommy Points: 153
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 09:45:25 AM »

Online smokeablount

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2340
  • Tommy Points: 173
  • When my account was born, Mark Blount was our C :(
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Except Sacto doesn't have 1 vet who is as conducive to winning and still as productive as Ariza.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2018, 09:55:49 AM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21643
  • Tommy Points: 1027
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Except Sacto doesn't have 1 vet who is as conducive to winning and still as productive as Ariza.
How conducive to winning is Ariza?  His on/off differential was -1.1 last year for the Rockets (i.e. they were better when he was on the bench).  The Rockets were 51-16 in Ariza's 67 games and 14-1 in the 15 games he missed.  This idea that Trevor Ariza is going to help a terrible team win games isn't based in statistical reality. 

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 10:01:30 AM »

Online smokeablount

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2340
  • Tommy Points: 173
  • When my account was born, Mark Blount was our C :(
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Except Sacto doesn't have 1 vet who is as conducive to winning and still as productive as Ariza.
How conducive to winning is Ariza?  His on/off differential was -1.1 last year for the Rockets (i.e. they were better when he was on the bench).  The Rockets were 51-16 in Ariza's 67 games and 14-1 in the 15 games he missed.  This idea that Trevor Ariza is going to help a terrible team win games isn't based in statistical reality.

Enlighten us, who had an on/off differential as good as -1.1 last year on the Kings?
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 10:33:50 AM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21643
  • Tommy Points: 1027
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Except Sacto doesn't have 1 vet who is as conducive to winning and still as productive as Ariza.
How conducive to winning is Ariza?  His on/off differential was -1.1 last year for the Rockets (i.e. they were better when he was on the bench).  The Rockets were 51-16 in Ariza's 67 games and 14-1 in the 15 games he missed.  This idea that Trevor Ariza is going to help a terrible team win games isn't based in statistical reality.

Enlighten us, who had an on/off differential as good as -1.1 last year on the Kings?
Of the young players, Hield was a +7.4, Labissierre was 3.9.  Sampson led the team at 8.5 followed by Mason at 7.9.  Jackson and WCS were negative but better than Ariza.  Richardson was also in the positives as was Temple (who isn't there).  Vince Carter had a very strong 4.5 (but he isn't back).  Zach Randolph was the worst performer on the Kings in that regard, followed by Fox and Hill (who obviously isn't there).  Now the Kings were bad obviously so the only player on the team with a positive +- was Sampson at a whopping 0.1, but the differential absolutely shows the players that are a net positive as opposed to a net negative when they play. 

The Suns dumped the only regular rotation young guys they had in the positive for differential (Len, Chriss, and Ulis).  Dudley was a monster in that category (+10.8) and he is gone also, though lesser minute players like Harrison and Canaan are back and were very good in that area.  Warren and Booker weren't terrible each at -0.7, Jackson was pretty bad though at -6.0.  Like, the Kings, the Suns were a terrible team overall though Harrison, House, Peters, and Canaan all did have a positive +- overall.   Their 3 main vets, Chandler, Anderson, and Ariza all made their teams worse when they were on the court last year.  Anderson was the worst of that group at -4.1 with Chandler at -1.3 and Ariza at -1.1.

Now all that said, a lot of that it depends a great deal on who you are playing with, who you are playing against, and the role you have.  I think the best way to explain it is to use the Sixers.  The Sixers were +12.8 better when Embiid was in the game then when he wasn't.  Richaun Holmes almost always came in for Embiid and was rarely on the floor at the same time as Embiid.  As a result, Holmes had a differential of -7.9, while Embiid's on/off was boosted because his backups weren't very good (both Holmes and Johnson). 

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2018, 11:56:57 AM »

Online smokeablount

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2340
  • Tommy Points: 173
  • When my account was born, Mark Blount was our C :(
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Except Sacto doesn't have 1 vet who is as conducive to winning and still as productive as Ariza.
How conducive to winning is Ariza?  His on/off differential was -1.1 last year for the Rockets (i.e. they were better when he was on the bench).  The Rockets were 51-16 in Ariza's 67 games and 14-1 in the 15 games he missed.  This idea that Trevor Ariza is going to help a terrible team win games isn't based in statistical reality.

Enlighten us, who had an on/off differential as good as -1.1 last year on the Kings?
Of the young players, Hield was a +7.4, Labissierre was 3.9.  Sampson led the team at 8.5 followed by Mason at 7.9.  Jackson and WCS were negative but better than Ariza.  Richardson was also in the positives as was Temple (who isn't there).  Vince Carter had a very strong 4.5 (but he isn't back).  Zach Randolph was the worst performer on the Kings in that regard, followed by Fox and Hill (who obviously isn't there).  Now the Kings were bad obviously so the only player on the team with a positive +- was Sampson at a whopping 0.1, but the differential absolutely shows the players that are a net positive as opposed to a net negative when they play. 

The Suns dumped the only regular rotation young guys they had in the positive for differential (Len, Chriss, and Ulis).  Dudley was a monster in that category (+10.8) and he is gone also, though lesser minute players like Harrison and Canaan are back and were very good in that area.  Warren and Booker weren't terrible each at -0.7, Jackson was pretty bad though at -6.0.  Like, the Kings, the Suns were a terrible team overall though Harrison, House, Peters, and Canaan all did have a positive +- overall.   Their 3 main vets, Chandler, Anderson, and Ariza all made their teams worse when they were on the court last year.  Anderson was the worst of that group at -4.1 with Chandler at -1.3 and Ariza at -1.1.

Now all that said, a lot of that it depends a great deal on who you are playing with, who you are playing against, and the role you have.  I think the best way to explain it is to use the Sixers.  The Sixers were +12.8 better when Embiid was in the game then when he wasn't.  Richaun Holmes almost always came in for Embiid and was rarely on the floor at the same time as Embiid.  As a result, Holmes had a differential of -7.9, while Embiid's on/off was boosted because his backups weren't very good (both Holmes and Johnson).

That is surprising to me about the young guys on the Kings, but I should have clarified that I was asking about vets on the Kings, not young guys, as my claim was that the Kings didn't have a vet like Ariza. 

I also wouldn't base my entire valuation of Ariza's contribution to winning based on one year of plus minus.  He started on a 65+ win team last year, his departure is a concern for them, and he was a starter on 2 championship teams that didn't have a big 3. 

There is plenty of evidence that he contributes to winning beyond one year's plus/minus metric, though I admit some of the strongest and best evidence of this fact is 8-10 years old.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Kings 2019 Draft Pick
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2018, 12:19:01 PM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21643
  • Tommy Points: 1027
This is correct, the pick is top 1 protected. The variance between the Philly and Kings picks could be 20+. As bad as losing the pick would be for us, arguably worse is how much it would strengthen one of our toughest rivals.

The issue is not only is that Philly would be adding the number one pick to an already stacked roster, but they would have 3 choices in RJ Barrett, Nassir Little, and Cam Reddish that would be able to immediately step into their core and fit their timeline. After missing out on Tatum, LeBron, Paul George, and Kawhi Philly needs a stud wing and the 2019 draft could be their best chance at one.

I think the scenario to hope for is that although the Kings have by far one of the worst roster's, they also have no incentive to tank. This mean's that when the Hawks, Knicks, Nets, and Suns of the world start dreaming of high draft picks, Sac will try to pick up some wins to establish their culture. I'd be happy if we end up with any where from 2-7 just to keep the pick out of Philly's hands.
we keep hearing this particular narrative here, yet, i don't see it as holding up when we check history.

brooklyn had no incentive to tank in either 2016 or 2017, yet they still stunk. as important as any supposed "desire" or plan to tank my be, sometimes rosters simply are filled with bad players and they stink without intentionally tanking.

i am betting that sacramento is one of those stinky teams.  ;D
Yeah, the lack of any incentive to tank doesn't stop teams with very little talent that doesn't really fit, an unimpressive coaching staff and a historically poor management from getting high picks. Sacramento fits that description
The Kings were quite arguably the 2nd worst team last season but they only finished 7th worst.
Personally think they will finish ahead of Atlanta, Phoenix, NYK, and Orlando. Possibly Brooklyn and we'll see what Memphis looks like if they falter out of the game and consider dropping Marc Gasol at the deadline.

I think the Suns will be better than the Kings. I like your breakdown, but the Suns three best players (Booker, Ayton, Jackson) are arguably better than anyone on Sacramento. They also have the vets like Ryan Anderson, Tyson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza. Then Warren and Bender and Bridges.

I would definitely take their roster over Sacramento’s, but anything can happen as far as W-L.

Agree about Atlanta and New York being worse, those rosters are a mess. I think if Russell can come back and continue to improve can lead the Nets to a slightly better record than the Kings, but will be close. Orlando is a crapshoot, could see them winning 23 or 33.

I have the Suns finishing behind them because I've heard speculation from multiple people I trust that Phoenix will be looking to buy out Trevor Ariza at the deadline. If they sell off some or all of those vets to contenders, they could be right back in the mix for a top pick in the 2019 Draft.

Of course Sac could do the same thing, but then where is the incentive to punt on what your building without being able to influence your draft selection?

Except Sacto doesn't have 1 vet who is as conducive to winning and still as productive as Ariza.
How conducive to winning is Ariza?  His on/off differential was -1.1 last year for the Rockets (i.e. they were better when he was on the bench).  The Rockets were 51-16 in Ariza's 67 games and 14-1 in the 15 games he missed.  This idea that Trevor Ariza is going to help a terrible team win games isn't based in statistical reality.

Enlighten us, who had an on/off differential as good as -1.1 last year on the Kings?
Of the young players, Hield was a +7.4, Labissierre was 3.9.  Sampson led the team at 8.5 followed by Mason at 7.9.  Jackson and WCS were negative but better than Ariza.  Richardson was also in the positives as was Temple (who isn't there).  Vince Carter had a very strong 4.5 (but he isn't back).  Zach Randolph was the worst performer on the Kings in that regard, followed by Fox and Hill (who obviously isn't there).  Now the Kings were bad obviously so the only player on the team with a positive +- was Sampson at a whopping 0.1, but the differential absolutely shows the players that are a net positive as opposed to a net negative when they play. 

The Suns dumped the only regular rotation young guys they had in the positive for differential (Len, Chriss, and Ulis).  Dudley was a monster in that category (+10.8) and he is gone also, though lesser minute players like Harrison and Canaan are back and were very good in that area.  Warren and Booker weren't terrible each at -0.7, Jackson was pretty bad though at -6.0.  Like, the Kings, the Suns were a terrible team overall though Harrison, House, Peters, and Canaan all did have a positive +- overall.   Their 3 main vets, Chandler, Anderson, and Ariza all made their teams worse when they were on the court last year.  Anderson was the worst of that group at -4.1 with Chandler at -1.3 and Ariza at -1.1.

Now all that said, a lot of that it depends a great deal on who you are playing with, who you are playing against, and the role you have.  I think the best way to explain it is to use the Sixers.  The Sixers were +12.8 better when Embiid was in the game then when he wasn't.  Richaun Holmes almost always came in for Embiid and was rarely on the floor at the same time as Embiid.  As a result, Holmes had a differential of -7.9, while Embiid's on/off was boosted because his backups weren't very good (both Holmes and Johnson).

That is surprising to me about the young guys on the Kings, but I should have clarified that I was asking about vets on the Kings, not young guys, as my claim was that the Kings didn't have a vet like Ariza. 

I also wouldn't base my entire valuation of Ariza's contribution to winning based on one year of plus minus.  He started on a 65+ win team last year, his departure is a concern for them, and he was a starter on 2 championship teams that didn't have a big 3. 

There is plenty of evidence that he contributes to winning beyond one year's plus/minus metric, though I admit some of the strongest and best evidence of this fact is 8-10 years old.
He was +0.3 the year before and +2.5 the year before that.  He is old and is trending downward.  The Rockets were 14-1 without him.

Trevor Ariza isn't going to win the Suns any games.  He might make a difference as the 5th or 6th best player on a contender, but that is at best all he is. 

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required