Who Is Sixth Man? Vote Your First AND Second Choices!

[Hoopvortex]

On opening night last season, the starters were:

Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford...

So already Tatum had won the starting spot, in his rookie season.  A year later, he has more than justified Brad Stevens' faith in him. But after Hayward went down, by far more minutes went to lineups with two bigs, and especially the bulk of the starters' minutes. Do you go with what worked last season? It's hard to argue with ECF game 7. 

Hayward was out for a whole year, which is an eternity in the NBA. Many fans have argued that he should be eased in gradually for that reason; and with his shooting and scoring he fits the classic sixth man profile, providing scoring punch off the bench. Of the scoring leaders in the league in the last few years, he is one of the most likely to facilitate shots for teammates; so he's a good choice to come off the bench and elevate the offense of bench players.

The "five out" potential of that opening night 2017 lineup, where everyone is a "triple threat" (to drive, shoot with range, or make a play), has to be enticing for the coaching staff. And while there's no denying that Baynes has carved out a place for himself (not to mention a new contract), isn't elevating the offense a priority? The two-big lineups were outstanding defensively, but Boston was middle-of-the-pack on offense last year.

Marcus Smart has come off the bench most of his young career, but at the same time he's consistently gotten starter's minutes. Last year was typical; he was fifth per game on the team. Most commonly he came in for Baynes, with Tatum becoming the swing in a smaller lineup; or he and Morris would come in for Tatum and Baynes, again in a smaller lineup with Morris at swing; or, less often, he'd come in for Tatum in a two-big lineup. Bottom line: Smart is the incumbent sixth man.

Of the likely sixth men, that leaves Marcus Morris. He might be the rotation player with the least certain future, given that he has one year left on his deal and has overlap with Tatum. With Hayward returning, Tatum will probably get more minutes at swing and fewer at wing; Morris openly wondering earlier this summer where he "fit", going forward, shows that this potential minutes crunch has not escaped his notice. But despite dealing with his injury situation, requiring him to be shut down for a second time in January/February to rehab completely, Brad kept getting him on the floor; per game, he was sixth in minutes - by that measure, at least, he was the sixth man last year.

Anyone else? Rozier?

[nickagneta]

Rozier is this team's 6th man or Smart. There are no other choices, IMHO.

[BitterJim]

Smart will lead the bench in minutes per game, but the first guy off the bench most games will be Baynes. So depending on your definition of "sixth man" you could argue Baynes, but I think Smart will be the real sixth man.

If not Smart, then Rozier

[Hoopvortex]

Rozier is this team's 6th man or Smart. There are no other choices, IMHO.

So, are you thinking that Baynes starts, or is he your seventh or even eighth man?

Last year, Smart typically came in for Baynes. I suppose that you have Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford starting, and bring Smart in for Brown or Rozier in for Irving? Or are you assuming last year's two-big lineup starting?

[Hoopvortex]

Smart will lead the bench in minutes per game, but the first guy off the bench most games will be Baynes. So depending on your definition of "sixth man" you could argue Baynes, but I think Smart will be the real sixth man.

If not Smart, then Rozier

Looks like I should have put Rozier as a choice. Done.

You are right to point out that this "sixth man" business is not clearly defined - viz, does it mean "sixth in minutes", or "first man off the bench". I was assuming the latter, but I think that that's worth a discussion.

[Hoopvortex]

Please note:

You can vote twice.

Already nickagneta and BitterJim have both said they thought it would be either of two players. I think we'll get a more nuanced poll if you choose your top two.

[nickagneta]

Rozier is this team's 6th man or Smart. There are no other choices, IMHO.

So, are you thinking that Baynes starts, or is he your seventh or even eighth man?

Last year, Smart typically came in for Baynes. I suppose that you have Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford starting, and bring Smart in for Brown or Rozier in for Irving? Or are you assuming last year's two-big lineup starting?

Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford will start. That was last year's opening day starting lineup when Brown and Tatum were unproven. Now that they are proven, playoff starring players, there is no reason to assume that won't be this season's opening day starting lineup.

If Hayward is "eased" into anything it will be minutes, not starting. He is going to need as many minutes as possible playing with the players he will be on the court with the most, and that opening day starting lineup, if everyone remains healthy, will log the most 5 man unit minutes this year.

So what I think happens is Smart or Rozier most likely come in with a big with Tatum and Brown coming out and Horford going to the 4. Brown and Tatum will return to be the scoring options to start the 2nd and 4th quarters. The real "6th man", the most important bench player, will be Smart or Rozier, even if they aren't the very first off the bench.

[Rosco917]

The team is so flexible the answer to the OP's question can be handled in so many ways.

IMO it depends on matchups and if Baynes starts against some of the bigger teams. When Horford slides over to the 4 then I feel Tatum will be the 6th man. When Horford starts at the 5 Tatum will start at the 4 and Smart will be the 6th man.

This team has a multitude of interchangeable players that can play SG, SF, and PF.   

Keep in mind the injury factor, Hayward will see limited minutes at the start of the season, and maybe even Irving. I feel the goal is to have a healthy team at playoff time.

[ETNCeltics]

Completely unrealistic to put Hayward and Tatum up there and not Brown. A healthy Hayward will start every game he isn't getting off for rest.

Having said that, I think that the opposing team's roster dictates our lineup. If we're playing Philly, Minny, etc Baynes starts. If we're playing any team with 2 decent bigs, Baynes starts.

If we're not playing a team with 2 bigs who can hurt you, then it's the same starting 5 as last year.

JMO, but I think that if everyone is 100% to start the year and one of our big 5 has to sit for Baynes, it'll be Tatum. No way Hayward is on the bench. As great as Tatum was last year, he'd have to blow up crazy beyond belief in camp to get ahead of Hayward and Brown, considering Brown's defensive edge. But even then, considering night's off some guys get for rest, the occasional minor (hopefully no major) injuries, and matchups, I'd expect we'll see something like Baynes with 25 starts, and Tatum with 50+, then Morris and/or Smart with the odd start here and there. 

[Hoopvortex]

Rozier is this team's 6th man or Smart. There are no other choices, IMHO.

So, are you thinking that Baynes starts, or is he your seventh or even eighth man?

Last year, Smart typically came in for Baynes. I suppose that you have Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford starting, and bring Smart in for Brown, or Rozier in for Irving? Or are you assuming last year's two-big lineup starting?

Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford will start. That was last year's opening day starting lineup when Brown and Tatum were unproven. Now that they are proven, playoff starring players, there is no reason to assume that won't be this season's opening day starting lineup.

If Hayward is "eased" into anything it will be minutes, not starting. He is going to need as many minutes as possible playing with the players he will be on the court with the most, and that opening day starting lineup, if everyone remains healthy, will log the most 5 man unit minutes this year.

So what I think happens is Smart or Rozier most likely come in with a big with Tatum and Brown coming out and Horford going to the 4. Brown and Tatum will return to be the scoring options to start the 2nd and 4th quarters. The real "6th man", the most important bench player, will be Smart or Rozier, even if they aren't the very first off the bench.

That big can only be Baynes, if your scenario is correct, since there's no conceivable way that Theis vaults over Baynes in the depth chart.

So the lineup would then be either:

Irving/Smart/Hayward/Horford/Baynes - which is like a commonly used lineup from last year, with Hayward instead of Tatum;

or Rozier/Irving/Hayward/Horford/Baynes - which seems possible, though it was much more common last year, when Rozier and Irving were on the floor together, to have Horford as the lone big, with either Tatum or Morris at swing.

[footey]

I voted Smart, but opening night vs. Sixers, I could see Brad starting Baynes, and bringing Hayward off the bench, given the injury recovery angle.  I doubt Hayward's ego would get bent out of shape.

I think our default starting lineup will be identical to game last season, but expect that Brad will be very flexible depending on lineups, and also to drive home to his players not to get to hung up on who starts, or your minutes.

[Hoopvortex]

The team is so flexible the answer to the OP's question can be handled in so many ways.

That's the really fascinating thing here, and I can't say I have a strong opinion one way or another.

IMO it depends on matchups and if Baynes starts against some of the bigger teams. When Horford slides over to the 4 then I feel Tatum will be the 6th man. When Horford starts at the 5 Tatum will start at the 4 and Smart will be the 6th man.

What you propose is logical, and the coaching staff did a version of that last year - although mostly at the beginning of the year.

And, Tatum has never come off the bench.

Irving, Brown, Tatum and Horford started every game they played in.  Only Baynes, of the main starters, did not.  Most of his games off the bench were early in the season, though. He didn't start against Brooklyn, Orlando, Atlanta and Golden State in October and November, for example (though he did against Miami with Hassan Whiteside, which supports your argument).  But as the season wore on he became the regular starter no matter what.

[Hoopvortex]

Completely unrealistic to put Hayward and Tatum up there and not Brown. A healthy Hayward will start every game he isn't getting off for rest.

Does that mean that you think Brown will be sixth man?

[bellerephon]

Brown, Tatum, Irving, Hayward and Horford will start most games if healthy I think, doesn't make sense to include any of them as possible sixth man.

[Hoopvortex]

Brown, Tatum, Irving, Hayward and Horford will start most games if healthy I think, doesn't make sense to include any of them as possible sixth man.

There’s a good chance that your starting five will also be Brad’s, I think. I lean that way myself. But Tatum and Hayward have frequently been proposed as sixth man this off-season, so it was obvious that they be on the list. Several posters here think that Baynes should start some games due to matchups.

Looks to me as though that lineup can give you good FG defense but will struggle with defensive rebounding and causing turnovers.