Author Topic: Jemele Hill out at ESPN  (Read 6541 times)

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Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2018, 04:02:21 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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She really was an odd fit at ESPN. She needs to have a social commentary show on HBO or Netflix or something. ESPN seems to be getting away from politics, which is probably the right move..

I dont understand why. Sports and Politics have ALWAYS been intertwined.

Not really. ESPN used to be highlights and Chris Berman yelling on Sportscenter. Not what is the societal impact of the racism of NFL fans.

In a telling twist, ESPN is trying to bring Berman back in a bigger role. ESPN going back to what made it popular in the first place..

Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell, Tommie Smith & John Carlos, Lisa Olsen, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, etc etc etc.

It is true that Sportscenter used to be much more about highlights (part of why I don't watch it much anymore) but they didn't move away from that due to any agenda outside of the usual conspiracy to try and make money.

In the 80s and early 90s you could only get video highlights and scores from the local news, maybe a handful of syndicated highlight shows (hello George Michael Sports Machine!). When everyone got the Internet, everyone could get highlights, and they didn't have to wait til 6 PM or whenever. So ESPN moved toward content they could exclusively provide, which meant a lot of punditry, "takes", and yes social issues.

Right, and the move away from political commentary is driven no doubt by a desire to win back a number of the viewers they've alienated with strident left-wing politics. Just business..

Their ratings have dropped at about the same rate as most other major cable channels - it's a shift in the media landscape and it's hitting everyone from the last version. 

Shallow grievance and self-appointed victimhood from vocal right-wingers is much more of a constant than a variable, so I doubt anything will change much on that front.  My point was just that politics has absolutely always been intertwined with sports whether Chris Berman was on TV or not.

Not really to the degree WokeCenter was taking it however. Not at all coincidentally of course, ESPN has a new boss who recognized the utter disaster he inherited from Skipper who killed Mike and Mike (most successful sports talk show ever) and initiated "Get Up", "High Noon", and "SC6", the three biggest disasters in ESPN history. Also not coincidentally, these featured strident left-wingism and are all now on the chopping block (thank god).

Whatever one thinks of Jemele Hil and her politics, it just doesn't sell with sports fans. That's just the basic fact an no amount of butthurt tweeting will change that..

What do you propose ESPN can offer as original content that can win back viewers? Its a valid, hard reality that the days of people going to TV channels for highlight shows like Sportscenter are long gone and never coming back. They have to offer something new to win back viewers, not just a TV version of sports radio.

Sportscenter was fine just the way it was. It was declining in viewers any more than any other show. It's the rock of the channel. Why does anything need to be fixed?


It has fallen tremendously from its heyday. That's not debatable. Losing money is never an acceptable solution for any of these companies.

I asked for a proposed solution since you are adamant that political commentary based shows is not an option for you. What new types of shows or innovative ways to win back viewers do you propose?

I wasn't talking about not an option for ME. I would respect their decision if these shows resonated with an audience for them but the fact is these were abject ratings failures. And they killed Mike and Mike to do it..

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2018, 04:12:12 PM »

Offline td450

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She really was an odd fit at ESPN. She needs to have a social commentary show on HBO or Netflix or something. ESPN seems to be getting away from politics, which is probably the right move..

I dont understand why. Sports and Politics have ALWAYS been intertwined.

Not really. ESPN used to be highlights and Chris Berman yelling on Sportscenter. Not what is the societal impact of the racism of NFL fans.

In a telling twist, ESPN is trying to bring Berman back in a bigger role. ESPN going back to what made it popular in the first place..

It's pretty hard not to talk about one without the other especially considering its 24 hrs worth of Sports topics. NBA players especially are way more socially involved today than they were. It would be doing them a disservice to just ONLY talk about their stats versus the greater impact they are making off the court.

There are other platforms for that type of activity. The fundamental fact is that sports fans are becoming increasingly resentful of the way politics is force fed through sports today, especially when its so one-sided. They watch sports to GET AWAY from Trump is the devil blah blah blah...

Aka white people who don't want to hear about the issues people of color (aka most of NBA/NFL) have to ACTUALLY deal with everyday.

Right. I mean it must be horrible to be paid more per game then most people make in a year, and live in a country so racist and corrupt it allows you to have $300mm deals with Nike.

It's never going to resonate with the average American man, who just wants to watch his favorite team kick another team's arse..

Just because an African American makes serious money doesn't mean this country has solved racism. I'm sure Duke Ellington and Paul Robeson made good money back in the day, even though the Klan could get 20,000 people to a march in New York or Washington DC at the same time.

How come you don't complain about when Donald Trump gives us his thoughts on these topics? I hear he makes pretty good money too.


Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2018, 04:14:19 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I think more than anything ESPN is struggling with the fact that people don't consume sports in the same way anymore. CNN has the same problem with news.

In the morning when I get the chance to enjoy a lazy hour or two I will watch Sportscenter 0% of the time. Why bother? If I want sports, I can literally listen to a daily breakdown for ANY team in ANY sport if I know where to look. Sports scores? Don't need those, they flipped across my phone in twitter alerts and push notifications. Highlights? Saw them last night while I pooped. I'm gonna read the deep dive on Semi Ojeleye while I drink my coffee. I'll listen to Zach Lowe while I eat my bagel.

Sportscenter declined in viewers because it got too 'Woke'? That's absurd.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2018, 04:34:59 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Make sure you include her APOLOGY, CelticsElite.

Quote
ESPNís Jemele Hill wrote this past Saturday that, "rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim.  Itís like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan."

Apologies

Jemele Hill's personal apology:
"I deeply regret the comment I made in a column Saturday. In expressing my passion for the NBA and my hometown of Detroit I showed very poor judgment in the words that I used. I pride myself on an understanding of, and appreciation for, diversity - and there is no excuse for the appalling lack of sensitivity in my comments. It in no way reflects the person I am. I apologize to all of my readers and I thank them for holding me accountable. This has been an important lesson for me and illustrates that, like many people, I still have a lot of growing and learning to do.
"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/31219-fool-me-onceespn-suspends-jemele-hill

If you REALLY care to read down further in that article, OP - you'd see CLEARLY why she made this comment. Does NOT make it right, but it echoes why MANY, MANY of my classmates while in high school hated BOS and wondered quite often why "I" loved BOS (they were African American, as I am).

Many of them loved The Lakers and Magic, Kareem...

I guess you can call me the odd ball - especially being that this was the 80s....Reagan in office, etc, etc...

LOOK - I'm not trying to send this thread off the rails but some folks here need to let stuff GO. She apologized, LOL.

So if Trump apologizes for his antics after his presidency ends, youíll be cool with him? Bygones will be bygones? Cuz Jemele Hill has been up to these types of antics for years.

I really don't know the best way to respond to this but I'll try -

As a man of God I forgive (and PRAY for) Pres. Trump continuously. I "HAVE" to - because if I don't that is blocking my OWN testimony.

To be honest I took the same POV towards him as Pres. Barack Obama did - I wished him the BEST and hope he SUCCEEDS.

That is STILL my hope for Pres. Trump.

Do I trust him? No, I don't. Is that fair? Well, that is quite the loaded question to myself. But I don't.

The man has NOT had a completely fair way in how the media has dealt him BUT much of this is on HIM, IMO.....

I won't go into specifics about what he has said / done, etc, etc...that has already been hashed and rehashed on here forever.

I hope this answers your question, because in "MY" point of view I did answer it. This answer may NOT be palatable to YOU (or others on here) but it is MY answer.

To add further -

From my observations of Pres. Trump's time in office? I really believe he DOES think he's succeeding, so that's that.

Me? I don't believe he is.

"My" POV as to whether he is succeeding or not is obviously QUITE DIFFERENT than his.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 06:12:06 PM by GreenFaith1819 »
Marcus Smart "Impacts Winning." Boston Celtics Coach Brad Stevens

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2018, 04:45:09 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I think more than anything ESPN is struggling with the fact that people don't consume sports in the same way anymore. CNN has the same problem with news.

In the morning when I get the chance to enjoy a lazy hour or two I will watch Sportscenter 0% of the time. Why bother? If I want sports, I can literally listen to a daily breakdown for ANY team in ANY sport if I know where to look. Sports scores? Don't need those, they flipped across my phone in twitter alerts and push notifications. Highlights? Saw them last night while I pooped. I'm gonna read the deep dive on Semi Ojeleye while I drink my coffee. I'll listen to Zach Lowe while I eat my bagel.

Sportscenter declined in viewers because it got too 'Woke'? That's absurd.

You too? I love watching sports highlights on the throne!

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2018, 06:53:22 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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I think more than anything ESPN is struggling with the fact that people don't consume sports in the same way anymore. CNN has the same problem with news.

In the morning when I get the chance to enjoy a lazy hour or two I will watch Sportscenter 0% of the time. Why bother? If I want sports, I can literally listen to a daily breakdown for ANY team in ANY sport if I know where to look. Sports scores? Don't need those, they flipped across my phone in twitter alerts and push notifications. Highlights? Saw them last night while I pooped. I'm gonna read the deep dive on Semi Ojeleye while I drink my coffee. I'll listen to Zach Lowe while I eat my bagel.

Sportscenter declined in viewers because it got too 'Woke'? That's absurd.

Everyone knows NFL ratings declined last season and many blamed the protests, but I don't think I ever heard anything about attendance or merchandise sales declining.  Does anyone know?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 07:12:48 PM by smokeablount »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2018, 07:09:39 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Make sure you include her APOLOGY, CelticsElite.

Quote
ESPN’s Jemele Hill wrote this past Saturday that, "rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim.  It’s like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan."

Apologies

Jemele Hill's personal apology:
"I deeply regret the comment I made in a column Saturday. In expressing my passion for the NBA and my hometown of Detroit I showed very poor judgment in the words that I used. I pride myself on an understanding of, and appreciation for, diversity - and there is no excuse for the appalling lack of sensitivity in my comments. It in no way reflects the person I am. I apologize to all of my readers and I thank them for holding me accountable. This has been an important lesson for me and illustrates that, like many people, I still have a lot of growing and learning to do.
"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/31219-fool-me-onceespn-suspends-jemele-hill

If you REALLY care to read down further in that article, OP - you'd see CLEARLY why she made this comment. Does NOT make it right, but it echoes why MANY, MANY of my classmates while in high school hated BOS and wondered quite often why "I" loved BOS (they were African American, as I am).

Many of them loved The Lakers and Magic, Kareem...

I guess you can call me the odd ball - especially being that this was the 80s....Reagan in office, etc, etc...

LOOK - I'm not trying to send this thread off the rails but some folks here need to let stuff GO. She apologized, LOL.

I read it, and frankly I regret it. It's a crescendo of nonsense: "Rooting for the Celtics is like supporting inflation, unemployment and locusts. It's like praying for Eva Mendes to get married and for Brad Pitt to be disfigured."

 i/We all know the facts here, which is the first team to draft an African American and the first team to have an African American coach.


Bill Russell dealt with extreme levels of racism during his tenure in Boston - he called it a flea market of racism in his memoir. The sentiment that Boston as a racist city isn't a new concept in sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/05/03/a-flea-market-of-racism-black-athletes-on-playing-in-boston-over-the-years/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a93d6190761d

There’s a distinction between the city (at times racist; in some locations it still is) and the franchise (very progressive in terms of black players / coaches)

That's a nice concept, albeit a flawed one from an optics standpoint. The franchise can be as progressive as it wants, but it still has the cloud over it of being located in a historically racist city. For some players, there's no distinction to be made between Boston and the Boston Celtics.

Please name a historically *non-racist* major city. 

Birnin Zana, also known as 'The Golden City'.

Ya got me!

In all seriousness, I know what RJ87 was saying, she (I think RJ87 is female?) is quite an intelligent poster here.  It is just frustrating to me the reputation that Boston has.  Of course it has a racist history and still has tons of racist activity- but so does every city in America and seemingly every city outside America. 

Boston also has a lot of civil rights triumphs, because there are a lot of strong and good people to make up for the racists.  I don't see how Boston is inherently more racist than anywhere else- China for example has a problem with racism that we never hear about, for example- and yet time and time again, it gets (in my opinion) scapegoated as some American face of racism. 

As someone who is not afraid to call people out when they are treating others like crap for no good reason, I acknowledge the problems in Boston, but get frustrated when the whole city seemingly gets lumped together as a bunch of racists. 

And that figure about Bostonians saying the city is racist- this is one of the bluest states in the country.  A highly leftist population would self-report this kind of thing a lot more aggressively.  Not saying it isn't true, only that it's a statistic that tells you as much about Boston self-assessment and politics as it does about racism.  A city full of racists would probably get a lower 'racism score' because most would deny it or lie about it because they aren't concerned.

Yes, I'm a female.

I'm not sure why but of the major cities on the East coast, Boston still has a reputation as lacking diversity. Is it fair? I don't know. I remember when I decided to go to Northeastern, my grandmother actively tried to talk me out of it because she had serious concerns. Ultimately, I lived in Boston for 5 years and aside from one incident, I enjoyed my time in the city. I hear what you're saying about the good outweighing the bad, but sometimes negativity just clouds everything. I think of it like this: if you go to a restaurant a number of times and it has history of being good but one time you go and glass ends up in your salad, you're probably not giving them the benefit of the doubt down the line.

Yeah, I probably would want to limit the glass eating.  It's tough though because when I left home to go to school I went to Emory in Atlanta, GA, and I definitely left a white upper-middle class bubble.  But I found the South, especially Southern areas less cosmopolitan than Atlanta, to be significantly more racist than Boston.  So it's hard to believe the headlines that we are the most racist sports city, but it's clear we do have a significant checkered history of issues.

After college I moved to Los Angeles, and that was less racist than both and I've heard has the reputation as the best city in America for black American men.  But Los Angeles is primarily made up of transplants, and as a white man I experienced tons of racism when only other white men were around.  And now being back in Boston since 2010, the most racism I've witnessed has come from either immigrants or non-white people. 

These are just my experiences, but I've found racism to be a near universal human coping mechanism I guess I'd call it.  It baffles me how Boston gets more bad press than say, Alabama.

EDIT- By near universal, I meant you see it everywhere from all kinds of people, not that everyone is inherently racist.  Definitely don't think that. 
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2018, 08:03:24 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think more than anything ESPN is struggling with the fact that people don't consume sports in the same way anymore. CNN has the same problem with news.

In the morning when I get the chance to enjoy a lazy hour or two I will watch Sportscenter 0% of the time. Why bother? If I want sports, I can literally listen to a daily breakdown for ANY team in ANY sport if I know where to look. Sports scores? Don't need those, they flipped across my phone in twitter alerts and push notifications. Highlights? Saw them last night while I pooped. I'm gonna read the deep dive on Semi Ojeleye while I drink my coffee. I'll listen to Zach Lowe while I eat my bagel.

Sportscenter declined in viewers because it got too 'Woke'? That's absurd.

Everyone knows NFL ratings declined last season and many blamed the protests, but I don't think I ever heard anything about attendance or merchandise sales declining.  Does anyone know?

Ratings are down b/c people are consuming different content through various channels. RedZone, online, DFS, fantasy sites, etc etc.

I no longer start watching games at 1pm. I start at 2pm, and record the game. I end up watching an hour less of commercials, and usually finish the game when everyone else does. The main difference is that I get an hour of work done around the house.

A lot of my friends have cut cable and are now watching games through various streaming outlets, or they go to their friends houses.

In my opinion, Colin Kaepernick isn't killing football ratings. Concussions aren't hurting ratings. I'd like to see the overall involvement in the NFL over the last 10 years. My guess is that in the aggregate, more people are paying attention and getting involved (ie fantasy, gambling, etc).

The networks will adapt their commericial based model or continue to see ratings drops, in my opinion. With so much content out there, people don't want to watch over an hour of "dead time" on a beautiful Sunday.

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2018, 08:10:24 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Make sure you include her APOLOGY, CelticsElite.

Quote
ESPNís Jemele Hill wrote this past Saturday that, "rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim.  Itís like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan."

Apologies

Jemele Hill's personal apology:
"I deeply regret the comment I made in a column Saturday. In expressing my passion for the NBA and my hometown of Detroit I showed very poor judgment in the words that I used. I pride myself on an understanding of, and appreciation for, diversity - and there is no excuse for the appalling lack of sensitivity in my comments. It in no way reflects the person I am. I apologize to all of my readers and I thank them for holding me accountable. This has been an important lesson for me and illustrates that, like many people, I still have a lot of growing and learning to do.
"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/31219-fool-me-onceespn-suspends-jemele-hill

If you REALLY care to read down further in that article, OP - you'd see CLEARLY why she made this comment. Does NOT make it right, but it echoes why MANY, MANY of my classmates while in high school hated BOS and wondered quite often why "I" loved BOS (they were African American, as I am).

Many of them loved The Lakers and Magic, Kareem...

I guess you can call me the odd ball - especially being that this was the 80s....Reagan in office, etc, etc...

LOOK - I'm not trying to send this thread off the rails but some folks here need to let stuff GO. She apologized, LOL.

I read it, and frankly I regret it. It's a crescendo of nonsense: "Rooting for the Celtics is like supporting inflation, unemployment and locusts. It's like praying for Eva Mendes to get married and for Brad Pitt to be disfigured."

 i/We all know the facts here, which is the first team to draft an African American and the first team to have an African American coach.


Bill Russell dealt with extreme levels of racism during his tenure in Boston - he called it a flea market of racism in his memoir. The sentiment that Boston as a racist city isn't a new concept in sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/05/03/a-flea-market-of-racism-black-athletes-on-playing-in-boston-over-the-years/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a93d6190761d

Thereís a distinction between the city (at times racist; in some locations it still is) and the franchise (very progressive in terms of black players / coaches)

That's a nice concept, albeit a flawed one from an optics standpoint. The franchise can be as progressive as it wants, but it still has the cloud over it of being located in a historically racist city. For some players, there's no distinction to be made between Boston and the Boston Celtics.

Please name a historically *non-racist* major city. 

Birnin Zana, also known as 'The Golden City'.

Ya got me!

In all seriousness, I know what RJ87 was saying, she (I think RJ87 is female?) is quite an intelligent poster here.  It is just frustrating to me the reputation that Boston has.  Of course it has a racist history and still has tons of racist activity- but so does every city in America and seemingly every city outside America. 

Boston also has a lot of civil rights triumphs, because there are a lot of strong and good people to make up for the racists.  I don't see how Boston is inherently more racist than anywhere else- China for example has a problem with racism that we never hear about, for example- and yet time and time again, it gets (in my opinion) scapegoated as some American face of racism. 

As someone who is not afraid to call people out when they are treating others like crap for no good reason, I acknowledge the problems in Boston, but get frustrated when the whole city seemingly gets lumped together as a bunch of racists. 

And that figure about Bostonians saying the city is racist- this is one of the bluest states in the country.  A highly leftist population would self-report this kind of thing a lot more aggressively.  Not saying it isn't true, only that it's a statistic that tells you as much about Boston self-assessment and politics as it does about racism.  A city full of racists would probably get a lower 'racism score' because most would deny it or lie about it because they aren't concerned.

Yes, I'm a female.

I'm not sure why but of the major cities on the East coast, Boston still has a reputation as lacking diversity. Is it fair? I don't know. I remember when I decided to go to Northeastern, my grandmother actively tried to talk me out of it because she had serious concerns. Ultimately, I lived in Boston for 5 years and aside from one incident, I enjoyed my time in the city. I hear what you're saying about the good outweighing the bad, but sometimes negativity just clouds everything. I think of it like this: if you go to a restaurant a number of times and it has history of being good but one time you go and glass ends up in your salad, you're probably not giving them the benefit of the doubt down the line.

Yeah, I probably would want to limit the glass eating.  It's tough though because when I left home to go to school I went to Emory in Atlanta, GA, and I definitely left a white upper-middle class bubble.  But I found the South, especially Southern areas less cosmopolitan than Atlanta, to be significantly more racist than Boston.  So it's hard to believe the headlines that we are the most racist sports city, but it's clear we do have a significant checkered history of issues.

After college I moved to Los Angeles, and that was less racist than both and I've heard has the reputation as the best city in America for black American men.  But Los Angeles is primarily made up of transplants, and as a white man I experienced tons of racism when only other white men were around.  And now being back in Boston since 2010, the most racism I've witnessed has come from either immigrants or non-white people. 

These are just my experiences, but I've found racism to be a near universal human coping mechanism I guess I'd call it.  It baffles me how Boston gets more bad press than say, Alabama.

EDIT- By near universal, I meant you see it everywhere from all kinds of people, not that everyone is inherently racist.  Definitely don't think that.

I'm not sure this is true. Maybe here in Boston. If you polled America, I'm sure Birmingham would be considered "more racist" than Boston.

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2018, 08:50:08 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Make sure you include her APOLOGY, CelticsElite.

Quote
ESPNís Jemele Hill wrote this past Saturday that, "rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim.  Itís like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan."

Apologies

Jemele Hill's personal apology:
"I deeply regret the comment I made in a column Saturday. In expressing my passion for the NBA and my hometown of Detroit I showed very poor judgment in the words that I used. I pride myself on an understanding of, and appreciation for, diversity - and there is no excuse for the appalling lack of sensitivity in my comments. It in no way reflects the person I am. I apologize to all of my readers and I thank them for holding me accountable. This has been an important lesson for me and illustrates that, like many people, I still have a lot of growing and learning to do.
"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/31219-fool-me-onceespn-suspends-jemele-hill

If you REALLY care to read down further in that article, OP - you'd see CLEARLY why she made this comment. Does NOT make it right, but it echoes why MANY, MANY of my classmates while in high school hated BOS and wondered quite often why "I" loved BOS (they were African American, as I am).

Many of them loved The Lakers and Magic, Kareem...

I guess you can call me the odd ball - especially being that this was the 80s....Reagan in office, etc, etc...

LOOK - I'm not trying to send this thread off the rails but some folks here need to let stuff GO. She apologized, LOL.

I read it, and frankly I regret it. It's a crescendo of nonsense: "Rooting for the Celtics is like supporting inflation, unemployment and locusts. It's like praying for Eva Mendes to get married and for Brad Pitt to be disfigured."

 i/We all know the facts here, which is the first team to draft an African American and the first team to have an African American coach.


Bill Russell dealt with extreme levels of racism during his tenure in Boston - he called it a flea market of racism in his memoir. The sentiment that Boston as a racist city isn't a new concept in sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/05/03/a-flea-market-of-racism-black-athletes-on-playing-in-boston-over-the-years/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a93d6190761d

Thereís a distinction between the city (at times racist; in some locations it still is) and the franchise (very progressive in terms of black players / coaches)

That's a nice concept, albeit a flawed one from an optics standpoint. The franchise can be as progressive as it wants, but it still has the cloud over it of being located in a historically racist city. For some players, there's no distinction to be made between Boston and the Boston Celtics.

Please name a historically *non-racist* major city. 

Birnin Zana, also known as 'The Golden City'.

Ya got me!

In all seriousness, I know what RJ87 was saying, she (I think RJ87 is female?) is quite an intelligent poster here.  It is just frustrating to me the reputation that Boston has.  Of course it has a racist history and still has tons of racist activity- but so does every city in America and seemingly every city outside America. 

Boston also has a lot of civil rights triumphs, because there are a lot of strong and good people to make up for the racists.  I don't see how Boston is inherently more racist than anywhere else- China for example has a problem with racism that we never hear about, for example- and yet time and time again, it gets (in my opinion) scapegoated as some American face of racism. 

As someone who is not afraid to call people out when they are treating others like crap for no good reason, I acknowledge the problems in Boston, but get frustrated when the whole city seemingly gets lumped together as a bunch of racists. 

And that figure about Bostonians saying the city is racist- this is one of the bluest states in the country.  A highly leftist population would self-report this kind of thing a lot more aggressively.  Not saying it isn't true, only that it's a statistic that tells you as much about Boston self-assessment and politics as it does about racism.  A city full of racists would probably get a lower 'racism score' because most would deny it or lie about it because they aren't concerned.

Yes, I'm a female.

I'm not sure why but of the major cities on the East coast, Boston still has a reputation as lacking diversity. Is it fair? I don't know. I remember when I decided to go to Northeastern, my grandmother actively tried to talk me out of it because she had serious concerns. Ultimately, I lived in Boston for 5 years and aside from one incident, I enjoyed my time in the city. I hear what you're saying about the good outweighing the bad, but sometimes negativity just clouds everything. I think of it like this: if you go to a restaurant a number of times and it has history of being good but one time you go and glass ends up in your salad, you're probably not giving them the benefit of the doubt down the line.

Yeah, I probably would want to limit the glass eating.  It's tough though because when I left home to go to school I went to Emory in Atlanta, GA, and I definitely left a white upper-middle class bubble.  But I found the South, especially Southern areas less cosmopolitan than Atlanta, to be significantly more racist than Boston.  So it's hard to believe the headlines that we are the most racist sports city, but it's clear we do have a significant checkered history of issues.

After college I moved to Los Angeles, and that was less racist than both and I've heard has the reputation as the best city in America for black American men.  But Los Angeles is primarily made up of transplants, and as a white man I experienced tons of racism when only other white men were around.  And now being back in Boston since 2010, the most racism I've witnessed has come from either immigrants or non-white people. 

These are just my experiences, but I've found racism to be a near universal human coping mechanism I guess I'd call it.  It baffles me how Boston gets more bad press than say, Alabama.

EDIT- By near universal, I meant you see it everywhere from all kinds of people, not that everyone is inherently racist.  Definitely don't think that.

I'm not sure this is true. Maybe here in Boston. If you polled America, I'm sure Birmingham would be considered "more racist" than Boston.
Birmingham is 70% black.  If you do all of Jefferson county, it is 43% black.  What makes a place "more racist" than another place?  What make a place racist at all? 


Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2018, 06:12:49 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Yeah, I'm a little uncertain of what makes a city racist. It's a pretty subjective comment. It is reasonable to think that there are no racist cities, only racist people.

I heard white people say some awful stuff when I spent time in the south 15 years ago, but does that make their town/city racist? I'm not sure that makes sense.

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2018, 07:01:01 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I lived in Florida for about 7 years and saw tons of racism, and that was in the cities of Tampa and St. Petersburg. If you headed inland away from cities, it was even worse.

Now I am not saying I haven't seen racism here in Boston, but the people in Florida we're a lot more open about their racist views.

Growing up in Everett and Chelsea there was a very diverse population so most of the kids grew up seeing people as people. That's even more common now. Boston has come a long way in the last 40 years. I don't see racism being any worse here than in other cities I have been in like NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and Cleveland.

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2018, 09:24:50 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I lived in Florida for about 7 years and saw tons of racism, and that was in the cities of Tampa and St. Petersburg. If you headed inland away from cities, it was even worse.

Now I am not saying I haven't seen racism here in Boston, but the people in Florida we're a lot more open about their racist views.

Growing up in Everett and Chelsea there was a very diverse population so most of the kids grew up seeing people as people. That's even more common now. Boston has come a long way in the last 40 years. I don't see racism being any worse here than in other cities I have been in like NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and Cleveland.
What constitutes racism in your mind?  I've lived nearly 50 years in Alabama and just over 30 in Huntsville.  For the most part people go about their daily lives (work, shopping, ...) interacting with other races without issues or exhibiting racist behavior. 

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2018, 09:34:20 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I lived in Florida for about 7 years and saw tons of racism, and that was in the cities of Tampa and St. Petersburg. If you headed inland away from cities, it was even worse.

Now I am not saying I haven't seen racism here in Boston, but the people in Florida we're a lot more open about their racist views.

Growing up in Everett and Chelsea there was a very diverse population so most of the kids grew up seeing people as people. That's even more common now. Boston has come a long way in the last 40 years. I don't see racism being any worse here than in other cities I have been in like NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and Cleveland.
What constitutes racism in your mind?  I've lived nearly 50 years in Alabama and just over 30 in Huntsville.  For the most part people go about their daily lives (work, shopping, ...) interacting with other races without issues or exhibiting racist behavior.
Well, one incident was at a restaurant and the server thanked us for the nice tip because the dirty Hispanics don't tip. What she didn't know was my wife was Puerto Rican. Another episode I saw was at the casino when a black guy hit on a hand of black jack when he should have held giving the house the win. White guy next to him started calling him a stupid n word.

Those were two incidences. I have more stories. Heck I was told by a black guy at the neighborhood pool that I was a nice guy, for a white guy. It goes both ways.

So, do those incidences sound like racism to you? To me it does!

Re: Jemele Hill out at ESPN
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2018, 09:52:38 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I lived in Florida for about 7 years and saw tons of racism, and that was in the cities of Tampa and St. Petersburg. If you headed inland away from cities, it was even worse.

Now I am not saying I haven't seen racism here in Boston, but the people in Florida we're a lot more open about their racist views.

Growing up in Everett and Chelsea there was a very diverse population so most of the kids grew up seeing people as people. That's even more common now. Boston has come a long way in the last 40 years. I don't see racism being any worse here than in other cities I have been in like NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and Cleveland.
What constitutes racism in your mind?  I've lived nearly 50 years in Alabama and just over 30 in Huntsville.  For the most part people go about their daily lives (work, shopping, ...) interacting with other races without issues or exhibiting racist behavior.
Well, one incident was at a restaurant and the server thanked us for the nice tip because the dirty Hispanics don't tip. What she didn't know was my wife was Puerto Rican. Another episode I saw was at the casino when a black guy hit on a hand of black jack when he should have held giving the house the win. White guy next to him started calling him a stupid n word.

Those were two incidences. I have more stories. Heck I was told by a black guy at the neighborhood pool that I was a nice guy, for a white guy. It goes both ways.

So, do those incidences sound like racism to you? To me it does!

True story (and I apologize for the language used): 

A close friend had a new co-worker who had recently moved to Maine from somewhere down South (Mississippi or Alabama, I forget).  They were talking, and my friend asked her how she liked Maine.  In the course of that conversation, she said "I can't believe how bad you guys treat negroes up here."

Racism was so pervasive where she came from that, in an attempt to stick up for blacks, she used deeply insulting language, presumably because it's all she knew.  And yet, despite that pervasiveness of her culture, she identified Maine as a place that was more openly hostile to blacks. 



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