Would You Trade Smart for Wiggins, Right Now?

[Boris Badenov]

I don’t think there’s any player drafted in the last decade I’ve been more disappointed in.

Strong statement in a decade with Fultz, Okafor, and Thabeet. At least Wiggins is putting up some numbers. The three I listed were "can't miss" (less so Thabeet) and put up / have put up complete donuts.

I think there's a lot of Okafor in Wiggins. If you take their per-36 over the 1st two seasons of their careers (and remember, Okafor played 30mpg as a rookie), you get:

Okafor: 20/8/2 (1.5 blocks), 54% TS, 0.43 WS/48
Wiggins: 19/4/2 (1.0 steals), 53% TS, 0.51 WS/48

Now obviously Okafor fell off a cliff once Philly committed to Embiid moving forward, but they are surprisingly similar in terms of production. Okafor is probably more of a black hole on offense, and Wiggins is somehow even worse defensively.

Maybe there's still hope for Wiggins considering the level of talent and age, but if you can't play a lick of defense after 300+ games, 36 MPG in perfect health under Tom Thimbodeau... there might be something wrong.

Terrible defense? Check.
Terrible rebounding (4 per 36)? Check.
Terrible passing (2 per 36)? Check.
Mediocre shooting (45/33/74 career)? Check.

Plenty of talent, but he looks like a 6th man chucker at best to me. Quite possibly the most overrated player in the league at this point.

Wiggins is a slightly-higher-income Jeff Green.

[Csfan1984]

Give me Wiggins at 13 million per

[gouki88]

https://youtu.be/vv1BaDhcQUU

Jeesh. That's a horrible play defensively. James Harden-esque defensive footwork

This looks like the ice defense that Thibs used in Boston (we still use it). I think KAT is at fault on this one.

A terrible defensive wing trying to force the offence into the help of a terrible defensive big isn't really destined for success

[billysan]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

[gouki88]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

[billysan]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

Yeah i know.

Was it lebron appeasement?

If he is so good then why trade him?

Thats what i find strange, not that he was traded but that the wolves got ripped off so easily.

[gouki88]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

Yeah i know.

Was it lebron appeasement?

If he is so good then why trade him?

Thats what i find strange, not that he was tradec but that the wolves got ripped off.

I just think it was a major draft miss. Heaps of people (myself included) thought he could be a TMac like scorer with elite defence. However, he has just not panned out, seemingly due to a lack of dedication/focus.

I think he was traded for balance (1 guard, 1 wing and 1 big as a Big 3) and to try and win now more than anything.

[billysan]

That's  part of my point actually, just that people bought into the hype machine about him and he was never that good. He looked the part and never delivered. There were concerns about his effort before the draft and rumors about a lack of willingness to work hard  to get better if i recall correctly. Pretty sure i read it in little player paragraph on nbadraft.net mock draft page.

[GreenEnvy]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

Yeah i know.

Was it lebron appeasement?

If he is so good then why trade him?

Thats what i find strange, not that he was tradec but that the wolves got ripped off.

I just think it was a major draft miss. Heaps of people (myself included) thought he could be a TMac like scorer with elite defence. However, he has just not panned out, seemingly due to a lack of dedication/focus.

I think he was traded for balance (1 guard, 1 wing and 1 big as a Big 3) and to try and win now more than anything.

The trade was simple: to go into win-now mode with an established vet who complimented LeBron better. It wasn’t because they didn’t trust Wiggins.

And as for it being a draft miss.... how many 21-year-olds average nearly 24ppg? I know he didn’t score as much this past season, but I think it has more to do with Butler coming aboard (and Crawford) and KAT getting more touches. He’s still very young and people like to hate on him but he’s a very effective player and by the time he enters his prime could very well be a two-way threat.

Assuming you are okay with missing nearly 3 seasons worth of games out of 4, and believe in him long term, you take Embiid first. Then who? He’s been the most productive player in his draft thus far. Jokic came out of nowhere mid-second, every team passed on him.

[Green-18]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

Yeah i know.

Was it lebron appeasement?

If he is so good then why trade him?

Thats what i find strange, not that he was tradec but that the wolves got ripped off.

I just think it was a major draft miss. Heaps of people (myself included) thought he could be a TMac like scorer with elite defence. However, he has just not panned out, seemingly due to a lack of dedication/focus.

I think he was traded for balance (1 guard, 1 wing and 1 big as a Big 3) and to try and win now more than anything.

The trade was simple: to go into win-now mode with an established vet who complimented LeBron better. It wasn’t because they didn’t trust Wiggins.

And as for it being a draft miss.... how many 21-year-olds average nearly 24ppg? I know he didn’t score as much this past season, but I think it has more to do with Butler coming aboard (and Crawford) and KAT getting more touches. He’s still very young and people like to hate on him but he’s a very effective player and by the time he enters his prime could very well be a two-way threat.

Assuming you are okay with missing nearly 3 seasons worth of games out of 4, and believe in him long term, you take Embiid first. Then who? He’s been the most productive player in his draft thus far. Jokic came out of nowhere mid-second, every team passed on him.

I agree that it's premature to label Wiggins a bust.  Despite this it's very concerning that his game hasn't developed in four seasons.  Flip Saunders, Kevin Garnett, and Tom Thibodeau have all been present at some point during Wiggins' career.  Multiple posters mentioned Jeff Green as a comparison.  The lack of drive appears to be very similar between the two players.

As for the 24 PPG in 2016-17, Wiggins was one of the least efficient scorers at the wing position.  I would give him more credit if his efficiency improved last season. 

[SHAQATTACK]

 jwiggins is Jeff Green in the making ,  plays LAZY

Jaylen Brown has the IT factor ....really don't  need Wiggins at all

Need Smarts blue collar grit game more., we got Brown and Hayward

[Big333223]

https://youtu.be/vv1BaDhcQUU

Jeesh. That's a horrible play defensively. James Harden-esque defensive footwork

This looks like the ice defense that Thibs used in Boston (we still use it). I think KAT is at fault on this one.

I see what you're saying but, scheme aside, there has to be a base line assumption that you're not going to just let your man walk past you like Wiggins does here.

In truth, even if the Celtics roster wasn't as wing heavy as it is now, I'd rather have Smart than Wiggins. I think there are more players who can do what Wiggins does than are willing to do what Smart does as a defender and as a leader.

[Moranis]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

Yeah i know.

Was it lebron appeasement?

If he is so good then why trade him?

Thats what i find strange, not that he was tradec but that the wolves got ripped off.

I just think it was a major draft miss. Heaps of people (myself included) thought he could be a TMac like scorer with elite defence. However, he has just not panned out, seemingly due to a lack of dedication/focus.

I think he was traded for balance (1 guard, 1 wing and 1 big as a Big 3) and to try and win now more than anything.

The trade was simple: to go into win-now mode with an established vet who complimented LeBron better. It wasn’t because they didn’t trust Wiggins.

And as for it being a draft miss.... how many 21-year-olds average nearly 24ppg? I know he didn’t score as much this past season, but I think it has more to do with Butler coming aboard (and Crawford) and KAT getting more touches. He’s still very young and people like to hate on him but he’s a very effective player and by the time he enters his prime could very well be a two-way threat.

Assuming you are okay with missing nearly 3 seasons worth of games out of 4, and believe in him long term, you take Embiid first. Then who? He’s been the most productive player in his draft thus far. Jokic came out of nowhere mid-second, every team passed on him.

I agree that it's premature to label Wiggins a bust.  Despite this it's very concerning that his game hasn't developed in four seasons.  Flip Saunders, Kevin Garnett, and Tom Thibodeau have all been present at some point during Wiggins' career.  Multiple posters mentioned Jeff Green as a comparison.  The lack of drive appears to be very similar between the two players.

As for the 24 PPG in 2016-17, Wiggins was one of the least efficient scorers at the wing position.  I would give him more credit if his efficiency improved last season.

1.23 points per shot isn't that inefficient.  I mean Kyrie Irving's 3rd year in the league he was scoring only 1.20 points per shot.  Heck his 5th year in the league and 2nd with Lebon he was only scoring 1.18 points per shot.  Even his final year in Cleveland he was just 1.28 points per shot.  Jaylen Brown last year was at just 1.26 points per shot. Al Horford last year was 1.23 points per shot (though he was rounded up and Wiggins was rounded down).

This idea that Wiggins is terribly inefficient just isn't true.  The only concerning part was he didn't adjust to his new role very well and was less efficient last year then the prior year.  But his efficiency is just fine.

[saltlover]

No and not because he is Canadian, but that doesnt help.

For a guy who is/was soooo hyped he just isn't very good IMO.

Why has he been traded so readily and at so early in his career?

You mean from Cleveland? I think that's a strange thing to be concerned about

Yeah i know.

Was it lebron appeasement?

If he is so good then why trade him?

Thats what i find strange, not that he was tradec but that the wolves got ripped off.

I just think it was a major draft miss. Heaps of people (myself included) thought he could be a TMac like scorer with elite defence. However, he has just not panned out, seemingly due to a lack of dedication/focus.

I think he was traded for balance (1 guard, 1 wing and 1 big as a Big 3) and to try and win now more than anything.

The trade was simple: to go into win-now mode with an established vet who complimented LeBron better. It wasn’t because they didn’t trust Wiggins.

And as for it being a draft miss.... how many 21-year-olds average nearly 24ppg? I know he didn’t score as much this past season, but I think it has more to do with Butler coming aboard (and Crawford) and KAT getting more touches. He’s still very young and people like to hate on him but he’s a very effective player and by the time he enters his prime could very well be a two-way threat.

Assuming you are okay with missing nearly 3 seasons worth of games out of 4, and believe in him long term, you take Embiid first. Then who? He’s been the most productive player in his draft thus far. Jokic came out of nowhere mid-second, every team passed on him.

I agree that it's premature to label Wiggins a bust.  Despite this it's very concerning that his game hasn't developed in four seasons.  Flip Saunders, Kevin Garnett, and Tom Thibodeau have all been present at some point during Wiggins' career.  Multiple posters mentioned Jeff Green as a comparison.  The lack of drive appears to be very similar between the two players.

As for the 24 PPG in 2016-17, Wiggins was one of the least efficient scorers at the wing position.  I would give him more credit if his efficiency improved last season.

1.23 points per shot isn't that inefficient.  I mean Kyrie Irving's 3rd year in the league he was scoring only 1.20 points per shot.  Heck his 5th year in the league and 2nd with Lebon he was only scoring 1.18 points per shot.  Even his final year in Cleveland he was just 1.28 points per shot.  Jaylen Brown last year was at just 1.26 points per shot. Al Horford last year was 1.23 points per shot (though he was rounded up and Wiggins was rounded down).

This idea that Wiggins is terribly inefficient just isn't true.  The only concerning part was he didn't adjust to his new role very well and was less efficient last year then the prior year.  But his efficiency is just fine.

Of the 36 players who took at least 1000 shots last year, Wiggins was 34th in true shooting percentage, ahead of only Carmelo and Dennis Smith Jr.  Lower that threshold to 750 shots last season, and he was 95th out of 99, with only Josh Jackson and De’Aaron Fox also falling beneath him.

He was very inefficient, especially for someone who takes a lot of shots.

[Fafnir]

Just fine? When the only thing you offer is scoring, you need to be better than .526 TS%.

He's closer to Marcus Smart than he is an elite offensive player when it comes to efficiency.