"Rose rule" prevents AD trade unless Irving is involved

[tazzmaniac]

There has been a lot of AD trade talk even after Irving was acquired.  However, I don't recall seeing anything about the Irving acquisition preventing us from getting AD.  Both AD and Irving received designated rookie extensions.  A team can have 2 players with designated rookie extensions but apparently only 1 of those players can be traded for.  So unless Irving is part of the trade, we can't acquire AD until Irving signs his new contract next offseason. 

http://www.celticslife.com/2018/06/the-derrick-rose-rule-any-celtics-trade.html 

[saltlover]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

[jambr380]

It has been discussed and I am on record for thinking it is one of the lamest rules ever. I am honestly not sure what the point of it is.

We can trade for Kawhi because he signed his max contract AFTER his rookie contract was up, but we can't trade for AD (unless Kyrie is involved) because he signed his max contract when he was eligible for an extension. If this is a problem, why doesn't every team just wait until after a rookie's (4 yr) contract is up and re-sign him them (or match him if he is signed in RFA)?

Indirectly related, I also think it is incredibly lame that teams can't sign players (in this case Irving and Kawhi) entering the last year of his contract to the what 'would be' max contract extension next in 2019, and instead can only offer a percentage increase on his current contract. We can already do it with rookie contract extensions, but not players who have a 3+ year contract? It really goes against the idea of the NBA wanting players to remain with organizations long term.

[jambr380]

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

From the Keith Smith article on the front page:

Q: I want to go back to this whole deal about only having two Rose Rule guys at once. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are awesome and only getting better. Isn’t this going to cost Boston one of them?

A: Nope. That restriction is only when you acquire players via trade that signed under the Rose Rule. Teams aren’t penalized for being awesome at drafting great talents. If Tatum and Brown prove worthy of signing for the Rose Rule, there won’t be any problems

Okay, so if Tatum/Brown are both signed using designated rookie extensions, we will not be able to acquire another Rose rule player via trade?

EDIT: modified my response while you (tazz) were responding to me...sorry for the confusion and tp.

[tazzmaniac]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

Totally missed that discussion. TP. 

[tazzmaniac]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

From the Keith Smith article on the front page:

Q: I want to go back to this whole deal about only having two Rose Rule guys at once. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are awesome and only getting better. Isn’t this going to cost Boston one of them?

A: Nope. That restriction is only when you acquire players via trade that signed under the Rose Rule. Teams aren’t penalized for being awesome at drafting great talents. If Tatum and Brown prove worthy of signing for the Rose Rule, there won’t be any problems

I realize this shouldn't matter since Irving and AD will be up for new contracts before Jaylen/Tatum, but he seems to indicate you can have as many Designated Rookie players on your team at once as long as you do the drafting. Is this not correct?

You can only have 2 even if both are drafted.  If we give Brown and Tatum designated rookie contracts, we can't give one to any other rookie we draft until Brown signs his next contract or we trade one of them.   

[saltlover]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

From the Keith Smith article on the front page:

Q: I want to go back to this whole deal about only having two Rose Rule guys at once. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are awesome and only getting better. Isn’t this going to cost Boston one of them?

A: Nope. That restriction is only when you acquire players via trade that signed under the Rose Rule. Teams aren’t penalized for being awesome at drafting great talents. If Tatum and Brown prove worthy of signing for the Rose Rule, there won’t be any problems

I realize this shouldn't matter since Irving and AD will be up for new contracts before Jaylen/Tatum, but he seems to indicate you can have as many Designated Rookie players on your team at once as long as you do the drafting. Is this not correct?

Keith is incorrect.  You can only have two at most at the same time.  They can both be signed to the extension by you, or one can come via trade (but not both).  In the prior CBA you could only sign one player to such an extension for the entire CBA — that restriction was lifted this time around, but there is still a restriction.

[droopdog7]

I don’t think we’re going to have to worry about the rose rule for brown.  Tatum maybe but not brown.

[tazzmaniac]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

From the Keith Smith article on the front page:

Q: I want to go back to this whole deal about only having two Rose Rule guys at once. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are awesome and only getting better. Isn’t this going to cost Boston one of them?

A: Nope. That restriction is only when you acquire players via trade that signed under the Rose Rule. Teams aren’t penalized for being awesome at drafting great talents. If Tatum and Brown prove worthy of signing for the Rose Rule, there won’t be any problems

I realize this shouldn't matter since Irving and AD will be up for new contracts before Jaylen/Tatum, but he seems to indicate you can have as many Designated Rookie players on your team at once as long as you do the drafting. Is this not correct?

Keith is incorrect.  You can only have two at most at the same time.  They can both be signed to the extension by you, or one can come via trade (but not both).  In the prior CBA you could only sign one player to such an extension for the entire CBA — that restriction was lifted this time around, but there is still a restriction.

The Sixers may be the 1st team to benefit from the rule change since Embiid already received the designated rookie extension and Simmons is likely to after this season. 

[saltlover]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

From the Keith Smith article on the front page:

Q: I want to go back to this whole deal about only having two Rose Rule guys at once. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are awesome and only getting better. Isn’t this going to cost Boston one of them?

A: Nope. That restriction is only when you acquire players via trade that signed under the Rose Rule. Teams aren’t penalized for being awesome at drafting great talents. If Tatum and Brown prove worthy of signing for the Rose Rule, there won’t be any problems

I realize this shouldn't matter since Irving and AD will be up for new contracts before Jaylen/Tatum, but he seems to indicate you can have as many Designated Rookie players on your team at once as long as you do the drafting. Is this not correct?

Keith is incorrect.  You can only have two at most at the same time.  They can both be signed to the extension by you, or one can come via trade (but not both).  In the prior CBA you could only sign one player to such an extension for the entire CBA — that restriction was lifted this time around, but there is still a restriction.

The Sixers may be the 1st team to benefit from the rule change since Embiid already received the designated rookie extension and Simmons is likely to after this season.

You’re a little Sixers-centric at times Tazz.  The Wolves will likely be the first team this summer if they extend Towns.

[tazzmaniac]

Yes, this was talked about last week:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23529024/biggest-nba-free-agency-trade-extension-decisions-every-team

▪ Note: The Celtics cannot acquire a player like Anthony Davis because of the Rose rule. Boston is only allowed to trade for one player (Kyrie Irving) that was signed with the Rose rule.

Any cap experts know if this is correct because this is the first I've heard of it being applied in that manner or barring Boston from trading for Davis?

This is half-correct.  You can only have two designated rookies on your team at a time, only one of whom can have been acquired by trade.  So the Celtics cannot trade for Davis until Irving is either traded or is no longer a designated rookie (so next year if he resigns with the Celtics).

From the Keith Smith article on the front page:

Q: I want to go back to this whole deal about only having two Rose Rule guys at once. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are awesome and only getting better. Isn’t this going to cost Boston one of them?

A: Nope. That restriction is only when you acquire players via trade that signed under the Rose Rule. Teams aren’t penalized for being awesome at drafting great talents. If Tatum and Brown prove worthy of signing for the Rose Rule, there won’t be any problems

I realize this shouldn't matter since Irving and AD will be up for new contracts before Jaylen/Tatum, but he seems to indicate you can have as many Designated Rookie players on your team at once as long as you do the drafting. Is this not correct?

Keith is incorrect.  You can only have two at most at the same time.  They can both be signed to the extension by you, or one can come via trade (but not both).  In the prior CBA you could only sign one player to such an extension for the entire CBA — that restriction was lifted this time around, but there is still a restriction.

The Sixers may be the 1st team to benefit from the rule change since Embiid already received the designated rookie extension and Simmons is likely to after this season.

You’re a little Sixers-centric at times Tazz.  The Wolves will likely be the first team this summer if they extend Towns.

I said may.  I didn't realize Wiggins' extension was a designated rookie extension.