Follow us on Twitter  

Author Topic: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)  (Read 144242 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1920 on: February 20, 2020, 03:28:37 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11252
  • Tommy Points: 764
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
So what happens when he comes back, after the obligatory few shifts when he first returns?

This year, the Theis/Enes Kanter rotation has worked nicely, and I'm not sure it will help those guys to give up 6-8 minutes each for the rest of the year.


He probably averages 10 mins a game. The occasional "rest/load management/cautious about an injury" off day for Kanter and Theis will give him some burn.

And I bet he takes like half of Grant's minutes.

I highly doubt this.  Robert may be longer and more athletic, but being in the right place and making the right decision is more important at this stage of the season.  Grant was already ahead in that department three months ago, and heís not going to fall behind in the final stretch/playoffs.
Agreed.  I see Robert not getting much PT.  Grant pretty much does everything better.

Wow, huge undersell from you guys.  DNPs and only 10 min?  Grant is a nice story, but his lack of length has hurt us at times. (Le'ts see what happens vs Lakers game).  RW3 was getting very good minutes before he got hurt, so if he is now healthy why on earth would Brad change his mind and bench him? Makes no sense.
Not really underselling at all. When he was healthy, he got less than 15 minutes a game. It's not unlikely that Brad would gradually integrate him back into the lineup. Grant has been playing well for us, so it makes no sense to yank him out of the lineup for a rusty Timelord who hasn't played an NBA game in several months.
agreed, and to add to that, it's not like Timelord was setting the league on fire before going out with injury.  sure, he made some nice dunks off lobs and some pretty blocks but his overall team D was still pretty bad and his offense is pretty limited to dunks and some decent passing.  GWill has excelled in all those areas where Timelord has not.

They need to make a judgment about how much he can learn this year. His ceiling is obviously much different than Grantís, and if he can correct the focus/mental errors it is much higher. It may be that heís lost too much time to make it this year, but Iím still a little hopeful.
Thanks for backing me up folks, I knew I was being bold, but I'll stick by it and repeat it (since my original words are not in the thread quotes now):  Grant does just about everything better than Robert at this point, in large part due to his BBIQ.  Robert has higher upside but I wonder if he will ever reach his potential.  This is coming from a fan who likes Robert, a lot.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1921 on: February 20, 2020, 03:39:40 PM »

Offline GreenShooter

  • Kemba Walker
  • Posts: 904
  • Tommy Points: 67
I think one of the reasons Danny didn't trade for Capela (and it would have made sense, considering the players and picks involved, to do so) is that he and Brad must have confidence in Boo Butt to contribute this year and improve and do a lot more next year, when this team could challenge the Bucks for the Eastern Conference. We'll see if Danny's gamble pays off.
Edit: don't mistake me saying that Williams will be a difference maker next year but only that he'll be a key piece off the bench and may even start depending on the off-season transactions.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1922 on: February 20, 2020, 05:46:38 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

  • Tacko Fall
  • Posts: 575
  • Tommy Points: 90
So what happens when he comes back, after the obligatory few shifts when he first returns?

This year, the Theis/Enes Kanter rotation has worked nicely, and I'm not sure it will help those guys to give up 6-8 minutes each for the rest of the year.


He probably averages 10 mins a game. The occasional "rest/load management/cautious about an injury" off day for Kanter and Theis will give him some burn.

And I bet he takes like half of Grant's minutes.

I highly doubt this.  Robert may be longer and more athletic, but being in the right place and making the right decision is more important at this stage of the season.  Grant was already ahead in that department three months ago, and heís not going to fall behind in the final stretch/playoffs.
Agreed.  I see Robert not getting much PT.  Grant pretty much does everything better.

Wow, huge undersell from you guys.  DNPs and only 10 min?  Grant is a nice story, but his lack of length has hurt us at times. (Le'ts see what happens vs Lakers game).  RW3 was getting very good minutes before he got hurt, so if he is now healthy why on earth would Brad change his mind and bench him? Makes no sense.
Not really underselling at all. When he was healthy, he got less than 15 minutes a game. It's not unlikely that Brad would gradually integrate him back into the lineup. Grant has been playing well for us, so it makes no sense to yank him out of the lineup for a rusty Timelord who hasn't played an NBA game in several months.
agreed, and to add to that, it's not like Timelord was setting the league on fire before going out with injury.  sure, he made some nice dunks off lobs and some pretty blocks but his overall team D was still pretty bad and his offense is pretty limited to dunks and some decent passing.  GWill has excelled in all those areas where Timelord has not.

They need to make a judgment about how much he can learn this year. His ceiling is obviously much different than Grantís, and if he can correct the focus/mental errors it is much higher. It may be that heís lost too much time to make it this year, but Iím still a little hopeful.
Thanks for backing me up folks, I knew I was being bold, but I'll stick by it and repeat it (since my original words are not in the thread quotes now):  Grant does just about everything better than Robert at this point, in large part due to his BBIQ.  Robert has higher upside but I wonder if he will ever reach his potential.  This is coming from a fan who likes Robert, a lot.

As always, this depends on what your definition of is, is. The greatest ability, as the old NBA clichť goes, is availability.

Having said that, If what weíre doing here is comparing how theyíve played this year, I can only go along partway with what you say.

Iíll just point to a couple of important differences. First of all, Rob has been an excellent defensive rebounder, while Grant has been a very poor one. Rob is quicker off the floor and has great hands and length, and that has resulted in a much higher rate of steals. And, of course, Rob Williams is a savant of shotblocking, Who in addition to his instincts has exceptional acceleration off the floor and quick enough closeouts to block jump shooters.

Iím not sure why we are comparing these two; I donít really have the heart to find out how far back in this 129 page thread Iíd have to go to find the rationale for it. I see them as substantially different players, and Iím not sure that the need to compare them is compelling.

As Iíve said before, I think that Grant Williams is a Celtic. He came into the league, as was evident from his summer league play, knowing how to play NBA defense. That is truly extraordinary. His overall feel for the game, for moving the ball and team play - in addition to some really good tangibles, his intangibles might actually be better. Looks like heís a leader, even as a rookie. You mention his basketball IQ; while I agree with you, it is also the case that he has dedication and does an extraordinary amount of preparation.
∑ Celtics executive on Brownís future: ďAll-Star. Multiple times. Just like Jayson. Everyone loves Kawhi and PG as a wing duo. We think we have our own version growing right here in Boston. Itís gonna take a couple more years, but those guys are stars. And neither has an ego. They just want to play and win.Ē

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1923 on: February 20, 2020, 08:29:20 PM »

Offline footey

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10866
  • Tommy Points: 1373
So what happens when he comes back, after the obligatory few shifts when he first returns?

This year, the Theis/Enes Kanter rotation has worked nicely, and I'm not sure it will help those guys to give up 6-8 minutes each for the rest of the year.


He probably averages 10 mins a game. The occasional "rest/load management/cautious about an injury" off day for Kanter and Theis will give him some burn.

And I bet he takes like half of Grant's minutes.

I highly doubt this.  Robert may be longer and more athletic, but being in the right place and making the right decision is more important at this stage of the season.  Grant was already ahead in that department three months ago, and heís not going to fall behind in the final stretch/playoffs.
Agreed.  I see Robert not getting much PT.  Grant pretty much does everything better.

Wow, huge undersell from you guys.  DNPs and only 10 min?  Grant is a nice story, but his lack of length has hurt us at times. (Le'ts see what happens vs Lakers game).  RW3 was getting very good minutes before he got hurt, so if he is now healthy why on earth would Brad change his mind and bench him? Makes no sense.
Not really underselling at all. When he was healthy, he got less than 15 minutes a game. It's not unlikely that Brad would gradually integrate him back into the lineup. Grant has been playing well for us, so it makes no sense to yank him out of the lineup for a rusty Timelord who hasn't played an NBA game in several months.
agreed, and to add to that, it's not like Timelord was setting the league on fire before going out with injury.  sure, he made some nice dunks off lobs and some pretty blocks but his overall team D was still pretty bad and his offense is pretty limited to dunks and some decent passing.  GWill has excelled in all those areas where Timelord has not.

They need to make a judgment about how much he can learn this year. His ceiling is obviously much different than Grantís, and if he can correct the focus/mental errors it is much higher. It may be that heís lost too much time to make it this year, but Iím still a little hopeful.
Thanks for backing me up folks, I knew I was being bold, but I'll stick by it and repeat it (since my original words are not in the thread quotes now):  Grant does just about everything better than Robert at this point, in large part due to his BBIQ.  Robert has higher upside but I wonder if he will ever reach his potential.  This is coming from a fan who likes Robert, a lot.

I don't agree with you, Surferdad.

R is a better defender than G. He is longer. He is quicker. He can finish alley oops in pick and role. He can see above defense at top of key on O.  He is an anchor to block shots inside.  He does not get eaten up by 4/5's when posted.  He has better offensive efficiency.

Grant is a nice player, has improved, but he lacks a lot of things that R can provide.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1924 on: February 21, 2020, 06:35:39 AM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11252
  • Tommy Points: 764
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
So what happens when he comes back, after the obligatory few shifts when he first returns?

This year, the Theis/Enes Kanter rotation has worked nicely, and I'm not sure it will help those guys to give up 6-8 minutes each for the rest of the year.


He probably averages 10 mins a game. The occasional "rest/load management/cautious about an injury" off day for Kanter and Theis will give him some burn.

And I bet he takes like half of Grant's minutes.

I highly doubt this.  Robert may be longer and more athletic, but being in the right place and making the right decision is more important at this stage of the season.  Grant was already ahead in that department three months ago, and heís not going to fall behind in the final stretch/playoffs.
Agreed.  I see Robert not getting much PT.  Grant pretty much does everything better.

Wow, huge undersell from you guys.  DNPs and only 10 min?  Grant is a nice story, but his lack of length has hurt us at times. (Le'ts see what happens vs Lakers game).  RW3 was getting very good minutes before he got hurt, so if he is now healthy why on earth would Brad change his mind and bench him? Makes no sense.
Not really underselling at all. When he was healthy, he got less than 15 minutes a game. It's not unlikely that Brad would gradually integrate him back into the lineup. Grant has been playing well for us, so it makes no sense to yank him out of the lineup for a rusty Timelord who hasn't played an NBA game in several months.
agreed, and to add to that, it's not like Timelord was setting the league on fire before going out with injury.  sure, he made some nice dunks off lobs and some pretty blocks but his overall team D was still pretty bad and his offense is pretty limited to dunks and some decent passing.  GWill has excelled in all those areas where Timelord has not.

They need to make a judgment about how much he can learn this year. His ceiling is obviously much different than Grantís, and if he can correct the focus/mental errors it is much higher. It may be that heís lost too much time to make it this year, but Iím still a little hopeful.
Thanks for backing me up folks, I knew I was being bold, but I'll stick by it and repeat it (since my original words are not in the thread quotes now):  Grant does just about everything better than Robert at this point, in large part due to his BBIQ.  Robert has higher upside but I wonder if he will ever reach his potential.  This is coming from a fan who likes Robert, a lot.

As always, this depends on what your definition of is, is. The greatest ability, as the old NBA clichť goes, is availability.

Having said that, If what weíre doing here is comparing how theyíve played this year, I can only go along partway with what you say.

Iíll just point to a couple of important differences. First of all, Rob has been an excellent defensive rebounder, while Grant has been a very poor one. Rob is quicker off the floor and has great hands and length, and that has resulted in a much higher rate of steals. And, of course, Rob Williams is a savant of shotblocking, Who in addition to his instincts has exceptional acceleration off the floor and quick enough closeouts to block jump shooters.

Iím not sure why we are comparing these two; I donít really have the heart to find out how far back in this 129 page thread Iíd have to go to find the rationale for it. I see them as substantially different players, and Iím not sure that the need to compare them is compelling.

As Iíve said before, I think that Grant Williams is a Celtic. He came into the league, as was evident from his summer league play, knowing how to play NBA defense. That is truly extraordinary. His overall feel for the game, for moving the ball and team play - in addition to some really good tangibles, his intangibles might actually be better. Looks like heís a leader, even as a rookie. You mention his basketball IQ; while I agree with you, it is also the case that he has dedication and does an extraordinary amount of preparation.
While your point on defensive rebounding is well-taken, I'm not sure their shot-blocking ability is as different as you suggest.  Robert is superior for sure, but Grant has had some impressive blocks so far in his rookie season.

On the issue of why we are comparing these players, I think part of it is they are likely to be directly competing for minutes when Rob comes back.  Another part is that this feels like Rob's rookie season in some ways.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1925 on: February 21, 2020, 02:41:50 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

  • Tacko Fall
  • Posts: 575
  • Tommy Points: 90
So what happens when he comes back, after the obligatory few shifts when he first returns?

This year, the Theis/Enes Kanter rotation has worked nicely, and I'm not sure it will help those guys to give up 6-8 minutes each for the rest of the year.


He probably averages 10 mins a game. The occasional "rest/load management/cautious about an injury" off day for Kanter and Theis will give him some burn.

And I bet he takes like half of Grant's minutes.

I highly doubt this.  Robert may be longer and more athletic, but being in the right place and making the right decision is more important at this stage of the season.  Grant was already ahead in that department three months ago, and heís not going to fall behind in the final stretch/playoffs.
Agreed.  I see Robert not getting much PT.  Grant pretty much does everything better.

Wow, huge undersell from you guys.  DNPs and only 10 min?  Grant is a nice story, but his lack of length has hurt us at times. (Le'ts see what happens vs Lakers game).  RW3 was getting very good minutes before he got hurt, so if he is now healthy why on earth would Brad change his mind and bench him? Makes no sense.
Not really underselling at all. When he was healthy, he got less than 15 minutes a game. It's not unlikely that Brad would gradually integrate him back into the lineup. Grant has been playing well for us, so it makes no sense to yank him out of the lineup for a rusty Timelord who hasn't played an NBA game in several months.
agreed, and to add to that, it's not like Timelord was setting the league on fire before going out with injury.  sure, he made some nice dunks off lobs and some pretty blocks but his overall team D was still pretty bad and his offense is pretty limited to dunks and some decent passing.  GWill has excelled in all those areas where Timelord has not.

They need to make a judgment about how much he can learn this year. His ceiling is obviously much different than Grantís, and if he can correct the focus/mental errors it is much higher. It may be that heís lost too much time to make it this year, but Iím still a little hopeful.
Thanks for backing me up folks, I knew I was being bold, but I'll stick by it and repeat it (since my original words are not in the thread quotes now):  Grant does just about everything better than Robert at this point, in large part due to his BBIQ.  Robert has higher upside but I wonder if he will ever reach his potential.  This is coming from a fan who likes Robert, a lot.

As always, this depends on what your definition of is, is. The greatest ability, as the old NBA clichť goes, is availability.

Having said that, If what weíre doing here is comparing how theyíve played this year, I can only go along partway with what you say.

Iíll just point to a couple of important differences. First of all, Rob has been an excellent defensive rebounder, while Grant has been a very poor one. Rob is quicker off the floor and has great hands and length, and that has resulted in a much higher rate of steals. And, of course, Rob Williams is a savant of shotblocking, Who in addition to his instincts has exceptional acceleration off the floor and quick enough closeouts to block jump shooters.

Iím not sure why we are comparing these two; I donít really have the heart to find out how far back in this 129 page thread Iíd have to go to find the rationale for it. I see them as substantially different players, and Iím not sure that the need to compare them is compelling.

As Iíve said before, I think that Grant Williams is a Celtic. He came into the league, as was evident from his summer league play, knowing how to play NBA defense. That is truly extraordinary. His overall feel for the game, for moving the ball and team play - in addition to some really good tangibles, his intangibles might actually be better. Looks like heís a leader, even as a rookie. You mention his basketball IQ; while I agree with you, it is also the case that he has dedication and does an extraordinary amount of preparation.
While your point on defensive rebounding is well-taken, I'm not sure their shot-blocking ability is as different as you suggest.  Robert is superior for sure, but Grant has had some impressive blocks so far in his rookie season.

You raise a good point. And though Rob is way ahead at 7.2% Block percentage, Grant is no slouch at 3.3%. That is a pretty big gap, though.

The gap in steal percentage is also pretty wide, as I mentioned above; Rob is currently at 3.1%, while Grant is at 1.3%.

On the issue of why we are comparing these players, I think part of it is they are likely to be directly competing for minutes when Rob comes back.  Another part is that this feels like Rob's rookie season in some ways.

Such an interesting subject. Grant has certainly gotten minutes at Center, and effective minutes at that - so what you say is logical.

On the other hand, the absence of Rob doesnít seem to have meant much to Grantís minutes:

October 4 games/16 minutes per
November 13/14
December 12/16
January 16/15
February 7/19

Furthermore, Grant has frequently been on the floor with Theis or Kanter - and, most importantly, a significant part of Robís minutes have been with Grant as well.

It will certainly be interesting to see how all that plays out when Rob returns; are the Celtics going to turn into the Houston Rockets East?

Your comment about this feeling like Robís rookie season resonates, for sure. In fact, with the season slipping away, we might have to wait until next year.
∑ Celtics executive on Brownís future: ďAll-Star. Multiple times. Just like Jayson. Everyone loves Kawhi and PG as a wing duo. We think we have our own version growing right here in Boston. Itís gonna take a couple more years, but those guys are stars. And neither has an ego. They just want to play and win.Ē

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1926 on: February 23, 2020, 07:24:49 PM »

Offline footey

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10866
  • Tommy Points: 1373
For those arguing that Rob Williams won't find more than 5-10 minutes a game the rest of this season because we have Kanter backing up Theis, I refer you to the recently completed Lakers game. 

Kanter is just unplayable in these types of contest.  Rob Williams (you know, the guy who blocked Anthony Davis's shot twice in the same game last year) clearly could have provided decent minutes, especially as Theis was dragging toward the end.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1927 on: February 23, 2020, 07:30:01 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41152
  • Tommy Points: 8001
For those arguing that Rob Williams won't find more than 5-10 minutes a game the rest of this season because we have Kanter backing up Theis, I refer you to the recently completed Lakers game. 

Kanter is just unplayable in these types of contest.  Rob Williams (you know, the guy who blocked Anthony Davis's shot twice in the same game last year) clearly could have provided decent minutes, especially as Theis was dragging toward the end.
I think Kanter is hurt, which is what is making him so unplayable. He has demonstrably limited in his movements since before the break.

Was Robert Williams in weight room?
« Reply #1928 on: February 26, 2020, 12:02:37 PM »

Online rollie mass

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4105
  • Tommy Points: 1133
The slow year getting Williams acclimated last year  and it wasn't the Red Claws where I think he had 4 games and didn't log big minutes.
It doesn't really matter how slowly he get brought along .this year he has a core of young hard working rookies. The thing is you really need to want it that is where his peers are leading him not the vets. Last year they had him content just watching.
This several month layoff could allow him to strengthen and grow into his body..
It has been a long time since Garnett, Cowens and Russell and we had a shot blocking inside presence.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 04:06:49 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Was Robert Williams in weight room?
« Reply #1929 on: February 26, 2020, 12:14:37 PM »

Offline seancally

  • Tacko Fall
  • Posts: 523
  • Tommy Points: 65
If I had access to the Celtics shiny new training facility I would be in there every single day.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Was Robert Williams in weight room?
« Reply #1930 on: February 26, 2020, 02:06:03 PM »

Offline footey

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10866
  • Tommy Points: 1373
He was probably banned from weight room while rehabbing drop hip injury.

Re: Was Robert Williams in weight room?
« Reply #1931 on: February 26, 2020, 04:15:51 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2104
  • Tommy Points: 232
I doubt much has changed during his time off. I hope I'm wrong

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1932 on: February 28, 2020, 10:33:26 AM »

Offline footey

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10866
  • Tommy Points: 1373
Medical scan today will determine whether Rob is officially clear to play in games.  All indications are he is pain free and good to go. 

Would be so sweet to see him play tomorrow night and swat away some Harden 3's and Westbrook dunk attempts!!

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1933 on: February 28, 2020, 11:14:35 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22887
  • Tommy Points: 9329
Medical scan today will determine whether Rob is officially clear to play in games.  All indications are he is pain free and good to go. 

Would be so sweet to see him play tomorrow night and swat away some Harden 3's and Westbrook dunk attempts!!
I'd be satisfied with good positional/team defense and not getting caught going for showy blocks resulting in offensive boards and putbacks by the other team. 

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1934 on: February 28, 2020, 11:18:19 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20706
  • Tommy Points: 2364
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Medical scan today will determine whether Rob is officially clear to play in games.  All indications are he is pain free and good to go. 

Would be so sweet to see him play tomorrow night and swat away some Harden 3's and Westbrook dunk attempts!!
I'd be satisfied with good positional/team defense and not getting caught going for showy blocks resulting in offensive boards and putbacks by the other team.

I'd be satisfied with him making it up and down the court for 5-6 minutes without wincing. We need dude back for good, he can be that last bench piece.