Poll

Resign?

Re-sign him at a price over $14 mill. He does a lot for the team
20 (14.6%)
Too much money. The Limited offense isn't worth this much
117 (85.4%)

Total Members Voted: 137

Author Topic: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]  (Read 63982 times)

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Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #930 on: July 18, 2018, 06:43:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

No. Nader can be waived to save around 1 mill.

Morris will need to be moved for a late second rounder. Mook, bro, forgive me for saying that. Go win a ring with a West team... You've been stellar... Dude deserves a ring if he keeps doing what he do.

Man, the guy is worth more than a second rounder lol.

You aren't trading him for the 2nd rounder in this scenario.  You are trading him for the cap space.  In fact, in this sort of deal you are likely to need to _give_ a medium-quality pick to a team in order to take him.   And the 2nd rounder you get back is only for the paperwork required by the CBA and likely heavily protected such that it never actually conveys.

None of that is a statement about Mook's value.  It's a statement of how valuable the cap space can be.
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Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #931 on: July 18, 2018, 06:50:13 PM »

Offline colincb

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Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

If both scenarios keep us under the tax, Iíd stick with Morris.

Beasley is the more volatile scorer, but I would trust Morrisí defense more. Heís comfortable now with his role and our system, whereas Beasley may not fit.

Sorry, no, under the assumption that Morris keeps us over the tax but trading Morris and signing Beasley gets us under it.

I think theyíre close enough that swapping them would make no meaningful difference.


Morris is the better player, but Danny's not going over the tax line to keep him.
This is all about money laundering.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #932 on: July 18, 2018, 07:17:05 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions heíd fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I donít know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, heís the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, thatís definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But heís buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  Heís replaceable, yes, but heíd be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.

Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #933 on: July 18, 2018, 07:24:32 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions heíd fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I donít know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, heís the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, thatís definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But heís buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I donít think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and heís the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it canít hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so whatís he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?

Other teams have found great success in the buyout market, our past failures shouldn't cloud that. For example Belinelli and Ilyasova worked out very well for Philly. Derek Fisher to the Thunder and Diaw to the Spurs are other examples.

And wasn't a certain PJ Brown a late season addition?

If you sign from the buyout pile we wouldn't be going back into the tax because that would be pointless. These guys tend to come on the vet min to chase a ring, not like the Monroe addition last year.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #934 on: July 18, 2018, 07:37:57 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions heíd fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I donít know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, heís the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, thatís definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But heís buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  Heís replaceable, yes, but heíd be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.

Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.
If the deal for Smart ends up closer to $44-46 million over 4 years, the best way to get under the tax before the deadline would probably be to sendo ut a 2nd rounder with a couple million dollars and Yabusele. We don't have to be under the tax threshold until the end of the year. So we keep Morris, who I think is about the 2nd or 3rd most important guy off the bench, and dump the salary later using maybe Nader and Yabusele dumps as a way to keep Morris, a proven playoff performer and a guy that on any given day can win you a game by getting hot and dropping 27-30 off the bench.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #935 on: July 18, 2018, 07:39:20 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions heíd fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I donít know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, heís the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, thatís definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But heís buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I donít think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and heís the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it canít hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so whatís he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?

Other teams have found great success in the buyout market, our past failures shouldn't cloud that. For example Belinelli and Ilyasova worked out very well for Philly. Derek Fisher to the Thunder and Diaw to the Spurs are other examples.

And wasn't a certain PJ Brown a late season addition?


If you sign from the buyout pile we wouldn't be going back into the tax because that would be pointless. These guys tend to come on the vet min to chase a ring, not like the Monroe addition last year.

Definitely!! Also this little guy performed well in limited minutes:


Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #936 on: July 18, 2018, 07:40:15 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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.double post

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #937 on: July 18, 2018, 07:41:23 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions heíd fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I donít know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, heís the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, thatís definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But heís buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  Heís replaceable, yes, but heíd be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.

Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.


 I hear ya, but the NBA is all about matchups. Some days he'll be the tenth man Off the Bench other games he'll be the 6th Man Off the Bench play 35 minutes and be one of the most important players in that game the NBA is crazy

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #938 on: July 18, 2018, 07:53:40 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Really curious as to the salary structure.  Sounds like they are considering a declining salary which would save on the tax in the future.  A flat structure at like $11.5 million per year should have some interest also as Smart plus Morris would then be able to bring back Butler as an example.  Still think incentives are an interesting possibility also.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #939 on: July 18, 2018, 08:06:59 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions heíd fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I donít know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, heís the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, thatís definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But heís buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I donít think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and heís the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it canít hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so whatís he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?

Other teams have found great success in the buyout market, our past failures shouldn't cloud that. For example Belinelli and Ilyasova worked out very well for Philly. Derek Fisher to the Thunder and Diaw to the Spurs are other examples.

And wasn't a certain PJ Brown a late season addition?

If you sign from the buyout pile we wouldn't be going back into the tax because that would be pointless. These guys tend to come on the vet min to chase a ring, not like the Monroe addition last year.

PJ Brown was retired. Not a buyout. And if we continually miss on that front, why get rid of a solid contributor for a chance at something we have not excelled in?

If we are trading away Morris to resign Smart, itís to stay under the tax. Since we have to actually pay these buyout guys with real money (and often bid against other teams, potentially using a portion of our MLE to win them - like we did without DPE for Monroe), we likely would go up above the tax line, unless we dump Nader and Yabu as well.

Obviously we wonít know what it looks like until we see what Smart is getting this upcoming season, but dumping Morris for a potential buyout candidate months down the road seems like a bad idea to me. With Hayward getting eased back into his regular rotation, Morris would be very useful early.
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Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #940 on: July 18, 2018, 08:10:46 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.
The way I see it, there are plenty of scenarios where Morris ends up moving higher than 9th man.

How about if Smart re-signs on the cheap and we trade Rozier for a future pick?

How about if we play against a team with no old school bigs (in terms of size), hence Baynes has to adjust to a diminished role?

How about if we face an injury crisis once again?

Not to mention, Morris is probably the best LeBron stopper we have on the roster (obviously, we can only face LeBron in the Finals). I bet he can play good individual defense on Kawhi as well.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 08:39:58 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #941 on: July 18, 2018, 08:43:55 PM »

Offline Cman

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Great news. Looking forward to having him on board for a few title runs.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #942 on: July 18, 2018, 09:12:12 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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If we keep Smart at 4 years, between 46-50M total, that would be a BEAUTIFUL deal!
Locking him up for 3-4 years is nice.

I feel like you need someone like Smart to win a championship.

Exactly - Almost every title team has a guy like Marcus Smart in one form or another.

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Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
« Reply #943 on: July 18, 2018, 09:24:30 PM »

Offline bogg

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Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

Worse.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Michael+Beasley&player_id1_select=Michael+Beasley&y1=2018&player_id1=beaslmi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Significantly so? Enough of a difference to justify the repeater tax a year earlier?  I donít think so.  I doubt having Morris over Beasley would result in even one additional win.

Yea, meaningfully so. Morris is currently slated as the first (and likely only, when healthy) combo forward off the bench for this team and happens to be both a good defender and a decent enough offensive option. Beasely is fine for soaking up bench touches in short spurts during the regular season, but the guy is just lost on defense and isn't going to hack it in Brad Stevens' playoff rotation. You're basically taking away the only two-way wing off the bench the team currently has (assuming Rozier and Smart are both guards) and electing to roll with an all-offense/no-defense wing and a pretty good defensive wing who'll maybe be a decent catch-and-shoot off-ball guy hopefully. My guess is that Supercool Beas would get bumhunted off the floor in the playoffs and Stevens would roll with Semi as his full-time bench forward.


Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.

The thing is that Morris fills a role that none of Smart, Rozier, Baynes, or Theis does, and he's currently much more well-rounded than Semi is (I like Semi, but he needs some more development on offense). Rozier/Smart and Baynes/Theis have a fair amount of overlap in the roles they'll play for the team, but Morris kind of stands alone as a bigger two-way wing.

If he asks out because he's headed into a contract year and wants to go to a playoff situation where he'll start that's one thing, but if he's okay with the role he's the best option as far as an off-the-bench guy who could slide into the lineup for any of Tatum/Hayward/Brown while causing the least disruption to the system.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #944 on: July 18, 2018, 09:50:51 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I guess it comes down to how much you are willing to pay for the heart and soul of our celtics. Considering we have 4-5 knock down shooters in our main rotation, I'd be willing to pay 10-13 million for an uber hustle guy who puts it all on the floor.

Get it done Marcus and Danny. Marcus is a guy who leads your team into battle. It's almost like he is our standard bearer.
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SG Ė Buddy Hield / Iman Shumpert / Yogi Ferrell
SF Ė Otto Porter / Bogdan Bogdanovitch / Justin Jackson / Troy Williams
PF - Marvin Bagley III / Skal Labissiere / Wenyen Gabriel
C - Willie Cauley-Stein / Ian Mahinmi

 

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